GREAT QUESTION!!!

super-connected is AMAZING—i do like that song better than feed the tree. almost much better, actually.

KING is actually a fantastic album but overall, i’m tooootally for Star.

and by the way, you need to like seriously delve into the throwing muses catalogue. like now.

That “Feed the Tree” song is one of the best unsung singles of ‘Alternative Nation’ era indie pop; haunting and incredibly catchy. But I recall the follow up single, “Gepetto,” being horrifying. Are those both on ‘Star’? I don’t think I ever heard ‘King.’

King is a stand-by favorite for me. “Super-Connected” and the title track “King” are the ones I tend to play more than once when I spin this.

just the sound on Star...

like Stay, or Untogether, or that little interlude one with the witch lyingo n her back

white belly

it’s all so acoustic and ethereal, with a great female pop sensibility.

i LOVE gepetto.

oh my god and one of my FAVORITE songs on star is “slow dog”. i think that’s what it’s called. now THAT is a great pop song.

the verse / chorus transitions on the track “King” are fucking fantastic.

also, i have a belly shirt. i love it so.

i have not heard king but “slow dog”, “feed the tree” and yes “gepetto” are all otherworldy brilliant. i am not so sure about the less imediate ones on there though they’re kind of spooky and cool but i’m not sure i can remember them....

oh god you know what song kills me

“low red moon”

where she’s like “and i’ve got strong arms—stroooong arms!”

wow

“Low Red Moon” is indeed fabulous – it’s all about the organ rumble.

Correct me if I’m wrong, Tiki Theater, but is “Feed the Tree” forgotten? It was a substantial alternative hit in spring ’93, even crossing over to some Top 40 stations. I heard it in Gap not too long ago.

and u know what’s goin on on star too is that thin like classic rock sound you know kind of like a jefferson airplane thing

they make it sound so good

(okay, the 30 second snippet of ‘Gepetto’ on Amazon (242 used & new available from $0.01!) has told me a great deal about how differently I listen to music now than I did in 1993. It’s pretty great). Oh, yes, and “Slow Dog”; awesome.

Maybe “Feed the Tree” isn’t forgotten, I don’t know—I guess I just mean forgotten to me! I hadn’t even thought of Belly for probably 10 years until I saw this thread. Digging out “Star” tonight, though, for sure.

I just emailed a friend this thread. He saw Belly in 1993 – with Radiohead opening! He said that Belly was surprisingly fierce on stage.

oooh! radiohead opening! crazy!

totally gonna put star on tonight as well ; )

He saw Belly in 1993 – with Radiohead opening!

I remember that tour. Didn’t see the LA stop, though.

I’ve only ever really listened to King — gifted to me — but it sounds I’m really missing out on Star, huh?

definitely—you reeeally need to check it out

King’s “Judas My Heart and ”Untitled and Unsung“ are pretty great too.

totally. judas my heart is like that parent song that at first is too pretty but then is subtly so?

no king really is terrific it’s just a little less resourceful or something. it’s like it’s alll there, and the hooks are great—maybe it’s the texture? i find it a little homogenic in texture, not as strangely eerie

although you know i still hate that song silverfish. never got around to that one.

I’m not entirely sure why King was such a resounding flop. Most of the reviews were outstanding and they riding a considerable amount of good will (they even got a Rolling Stone cover story).

really?! show me that cover!

i don’t know why either, doesn’t really add up at all.

Yeah, a rather glittery cover at that. Or sequiny.

oooh my GOD i love it!!!

look how cute tanya looks

The femmy guy in the middle is kinda cute.

Paul Reiser lol

look at her!! i just love that b. her first solo was pretty good too

i mean not great but good

haha yeah he is.

“The Shiny Happy People of Post-Punk Power Pop” – rofflez

i mean, quite a resume, that tan

Don’t forget THE ORANGE COUNTY SCENE (aka, “You mean there’s more there than the Offspring? Who’s this No Doubt band?”)

those dudes are brothers, apparently?

The drummer looks like a proto-Tony Kamal.

king! i like star ok, but king rocks more and has a bunch of good songs. it’s all kind of mysterious. “now they’ll sleep” is the real great lost belly single.

now they’ll sleep

is beautiful

The same friend I mentioned upthread has that greatest hits compilation released a few years ago. One of the B-sides he copied for me is a lovely thing (despite a reference to unicorns) called “Spaceman”.

Anyone remember their cover of “Are You Experienced?” on that Hendrix comp?

Star is one of my 10 favorite albums of all time. Lyrically, probably number 1. King is good, but not in the same league.

I really recommend checking out Tanya’s solo stuff if you like Star, especially lovesongs for underdogs.

Are You Experienced actually is awesome

and lovesongs for underdogs yes i would agree, but not so much for beautysleep. coupla good songs but too adult contemp.

i’m listening to Pretty Deep now. i like it. kind of a lot.

I say King, actually? Star has more interesting bits, and more of that fractured Massachusetts-on-4AD vibe, but the songwriting on King seems pretty amazing to me.

You King fans: were you fans of the first album and Donelly in general?

i’m actually happy to see so much for king, relieved

one time i had this complete emotional breakdown to “the bees”

covered in honey

showered in beer

King is one of my favourite records ever. While Star is gorgeous, King just rocks so much more. Red, Now They’ll Sleep, King and Lil Enio all being favored over any of the tracks on Star. I think the latest from Donelly : This Hungry Life is the best of her solo efforts. “Littlewing” is touching from the first note.

Agreed on that point. This Hungry Life is the first really good solo album she’s made.

I’m digging out Star and King because I haven’t heard either of them in forever, thanks to this thread.

Star didn’t have another song I love as much as “Slow Dog”, but that would’ve been practically impossible, so there’s no shame in that. And yeah, “Geppetto” and “Feed The Tree” and a few others are pretty good all the same. Good enough that I might’ve bought King if ’93 wasn’t the year I grew sick to death of college-rock, maybe for all time. (But “Slow Dog” snuck up on me on shuffle-play just last week, and it still absolutely soars.)

Slow Dog“ snuck up on me on shuffle-play just last week, and it still absolutely soars

I just heard it on the way home from work. The temperature is 73 degrees, with nothing but endless blue. What a soundtrack.

For a long time I thought I liked King better because I was young, and it was singles-y — in my early teens I’d bought a Throwing Muses album, and heard Star, but I’m guessing I found both a little weirder than I was ready to love at the time. But then last year I heard Star again, and it wasn’t just that I was too young for it: the best tracks on there are terrific, but a lot of the others don’t do so much for me. (Maybe they would if I’d been really into them at the time, but who knows.) So I think there was something about getting all tightened up and alt-rock that suited Tanya pretty well.

That said, I have live versions somewhere of “Slow Dog” and “Gepetto” that are insanely great.

I also remember watching some circa-92 MTV countdown of like “the hottest people in music” or something that placed “The Babes of Belly” surprisingly high, based almost entirely on midriffs in the “Gepetto” video: something about it seemed mindblowingly dishonest to me, as neither Tanya nor Gail are people MTV would embrace as “hot” outside of a couple blurry tracking shots. Then again, it was the early 90s, when pickings were pretty slim for rock musicians on MTV you could describe as attractive.

I hardly ever listen to Star but when I do I always love it. I never got into King although the singles are great.

My favourite Tanya Donelly solo is the version of Bum on the Sliding & Diving EP, way better than the album version.

I must admit, I didn’t expect Tanya Donelly to still provoke this much discussion in 2007.

Thanks for this thread, Alfred. I’m listening to Star again right now and it’s great. When it first came out, it was just one of those cds I bought but rarely ever listened to...and when I did, it was just for the singles. Truthfully, it’s been filed away in nowhereland for at least 12 years. Listening to it now, though, I’m kicking myself for not digging deeper into it a long time ago.

Yeah, Belly was really great. I thank you as well, Alfred—I’m actually shocked that someone started a thread on Belly at all.

I haven’t heard This Hungry Life! I hope it is good.

Well, for someone as extensively experienced as Tanya, I’m not TOO surprised she still provokes discussion, but I know what you mean. I really am surprised people are so into King... I thought it wasn’t favored.

Let me stir the waters. Is Throwing Muses’ “Not Too Soon” the best thing Donelly’s ever written?

i think it is, but not by much

i never dug king particularly, the first single (the name of which i’ve briefly forgotten) was really good but the album never sunk in for me

wow, not too soon is even better than i remember. some tracks are better with age. i don’t know about that claim, but it’s great.

i never dug king particularly, the first single (the name of which i’ve briefly forgotten) was really good but the album never sunk in for me

“Seal My Fate”? I had the opposite impression: one of the weaker songs, poorly representative of the album.

me too almost, alfred—but it’s definitely a grower

and i LOVE the thick texture on it

i remember really loving the first two 4AD 12inches/eps, and never digging the albums as much. but it was all so long ago...

ugh this is making me realize how badly i need to restock some of my CD’s

i can’t believe i let some of them get so scratched and crap. real ramona from amazon like SOON.

You King fans: were you fans of the first album and Donelly in general?

i liked “feed the tree” and “slow dog,” but i guess not enough to buy the album. i bought king because i loved “now they’ll sleep,” then went back and got star. i like it, but to me it’s a little thin, both melody- and production-wise, compared to king. they’re both good records, though. and i saw the video for “feed the tree” on vh-1 classic the other night and dug it as much as ever.

(speaking of videos — now they’ll sleep

also worth noting: tanya has the demos for star up on her website.

“Is Throwing Muses’ ”Not Too Soon“ the best thing Donelly’s ever written?”

either that or green.

Man I miss my Belly recs.

STAR WINS

I think I dug Star more because – and mind you, I haven’t listened to the record for a long, long time, going on memory here – it felt so mystical mysterious and etheral and light, unlike anything I’d encountered up to that point; I was a sophomore in high school when it came out, I think. (Funny side note: I actually bought this album because some bonehead told me that “Push Th’ Lil Daisies” was a Belly song when I asked him. Misdirection that worked out nicely in the end, really.) “White Belly” is the track I listened to obsessively. King didn’t measure up because it was simply too....hard in comparison, too rock, too much of a departure. I always liked “Red” and “Puberty” and maybe another song, but beyond that I just found it to be a boring album that I couldn’t bring myself to care much about. Didn’t bother with Tanya’s solo career.

I read somewhere back in 1995 or so that Belly actually broke up because King didn’t sell well enough, which makes me sorta sad. Is this true? Did anybody else hear that?

I *loved* Star, but then again, I’d always been a massive Throwing Muses fan.

King never really did it for me, it just overproduced (I know, stupid word) and weighty. Her songs seemed more magical when she was just writing them with an acoustic guitar and then sticking a band on, rather than when they were writing AS A ROCK BAND.

I saw them twice, when Leslie from TM was still in the band, yeah, they were really kickass.

Supposedly the Radiohead/Belly tour was one giant mess of horndog indie musician crushes and not-so-twee flirtation.

I haven’t read many Donelly interviews, but it would indeed be a sad thing if that were true, Ray. For an “alternative” band in the mid nineties King’s sales were quite healthy; they only paled before the surprise success of Star.

I should probably check out Belly properly one day... I never liked any of the quite poptastic singles as much as anything Tanya did *in* t’Muses though.

I imagine Belly were selling a little better than Throwing Muses at that point (circa “Limbo”)? Am I wrong stats people? Who also broke up due to declining sales leading to not even covering touring costs, at least that was the official statement.

Yeah, that’s the reason I heard for TM becoming a less active concern (& I think the same thing’s scuppering 50 Foot Wave as well, unfortunately). I think TM realized their best sales @ the same time that Belly broke (circa University—“Bright Yellow Gun” was all over the place @ one point), but Belly was “new” & exciting & probably got more of a push as a result.

I choose Star. It remains one of the few albums I listen to all the way through—even in the all new mp3 compulsive track skip noughties.

I think TM realized their best sales @ the same time that Belly broke (circa University—“Bright Yellow Gun” was all over the place @ one point),

“Bright Yellow Gun” peaked at #20 on the Modern Rock Chart, which is odd considering how omnipresent it seemed the spring of ’95.

Speaking of the Muses, I remember some of the promotion for University consisted of reminding people that “Hey! This is the band the Belly chick used to be part of!” This no doubt irked Kirsten Hersh.

Actually, I’m pretty sure I’m wrong re: University selling well, given that it was TM’s last album for Sire / Reprise—they (KH, really) hopped over to Rykodisc for Limbo (& the In a Doghouse collection, I think) after that. Of course, University hit just as the alt.rock boom was petering out, so that probably didn’t help any.

from a Britisher perspective no way was University anything like as “big” (relatively speaking) for them as the time around The Real Ramona and it’s respective singles...

I’m being a Ameri-jingo! Jingerican! MORANS!

maybe University was more American

We yanks love guns.

haha right