Never heard of it.

really? you can get it on tartan dvd in the uk.

Oh, is this out? I might buy it.

Anton’s doing a lot better these days, it seems. The BJM have been touring the UK quite extensively -they played the Astoria recently IIRC.

Other people would know more. I don’t keep in touch with anyone from that scene any more.

It’s a very good film. Anton comes across as a complete wanker though, I thought. And their music sounds pretty awful throughout too.

I don’t think that Anton comes across as half the wanker as Courtney does.

But that could just be me...

I think that’s just you. Courtney never kicks anyone in the head.

Also Courtney does a lot less whinging about how special he is. And bothers to write a couple of supercatchy hit singles that people like.

Sacks his band less. Takes less drugs. Wastes less time and money.

No, Courtney’s style is more stabbing people in the back, but it’s harder to portray that on camera, I guess.

That may well be true, I don’t know. I don’t like Courtney particularly, or his band. I just thought Anton seemed like the worst, most empty, most posing and self-important prick ever, pretty much.

Obviously any documentary is a work of fiction portraying the director’s understanding of the world rather than the world itself.

but anton’s influence certainly rubs off on courtney, who he himself does act like a pre-madonna at several points throughout the film. it’s hard to tell when 7 years of history are boiled down to 107 minutes of objective cinema. great fun all the way.

that whole kicking in the head bit is retarded. anton gets his ex on to sing a song and introduces her as his “sister”. At the end of the song a fan shouts “Fuck your sister, she rocks!” or something, which Anton takes literally as a request to fuck his sister. He then challenges the guy to a fight and kicks him in the head quite hard from the stage. He gets sent down for assault with a deadly weapon because a kick from a boot is counted as deadly.

courtney comes off as just as big a tit as anton really. the fact he has the gall to narrate the film in such a snarky, self-important way. the way he didn’t turn up to the BJM’s party till the next day, and then only to do an unannounced publicity shoot in a “fucked up house”. the way that one minute he gets pissy about major labels and how they quash “real artists” and then a couple of years down the line when “Bohemian Like You” gets big he’s all “It’s fun fun fun” blah blah. I mean it’s not as if the Dandy’s were ever that big or adored or musically important or revolutionary and yet you’ve got all these people kissing their arses, not to mention the band creaming themselves over this two-hit wonder of a band. And really this self absorption is a direct rip off of how Anton has acted his whole life. The Dandy’s always cast themselves as these drug-addled boho slackers, but really the true kings of cool were BJM.

pre-madonna

Ha ha ha ha ha, sorry. I don’t know if you did that intentionally, but that’s pretty funny.

I think that was the point of the film—that Courtney was making a rock star living out of pretending to act out Anton’s *actual* living on the very boho edge, which was literally killing him. They’re two sides of the same coin.

Neither of them are particularly savory characters at the end of the day. Being a “Poseur” means you survive, as opposed to being an actual “authentic” hobo (ha ha, typo but I’ll leave it) boho freakshow.

COurtney was completely in love with Anton, with his lifestyle, with his danger, with his “erratic genius” etc. (the man is actually an incredibly gifted musician—WHEN he has his act together, it’s sad that that is something that doesn’t come through in the film)—but Courtney is always too busy looking in the mirror to ever actually *lose it* and *lose himself* in the Classic Romantic Self Immolation that being that person requires. Going that far scared him—rightly so. (If you pretend too hard to that lifestyle, you turn into Pete fucking Doherty—an utter joke.)

I don’t think the question is, who is the bigger cunt (answer: they BOTh are.) the question is—which makes the more interesting art?

Someone who lives the art themselves, burning the candle at both ends?

Or someone who stays detached, like Andy Warhol, observing and maybe documenting like a camera?

Who makes better art? The Candle or the Camera? Or do they both need each other, in some kind of parasitic symbiosis?

A Camera is nothing with the fuel of other people’s fuckedupness to burn. A Candle without a Camera documenting their suicide burns out without a trace.

These are the questions that this film raised, for me.

Ha ha ha ha ha, sorry. I don’t know if you did that intentionally, but that’s pretty funny.

Dah, I take it that’s not how you spell it? That’s the name of an obscure 65DaysOfStatic track I had lying around and so that’s how I’ve always spelled it. Oh yeah “primadonna” right.

me i’d take BJM over the Dandy’s any day of the week. But then one is a lot more commercially viable than the other.

i liked the movie, though i hate the dandy warhols and don’t care for much by BJM. except “feelers” was kind of cool.

I don’t think the question is, who is the bigger cunt (answer: they BOTh are.) the question is—which makes the more interesting art?

Someone who lives the art themselves, burning the candle at both ends?

Or someone who stays detached, like Andy Warhol, observing and maybe documenting like a camera?

Who makes better art? The Candle or the Camera? Or do they both need each other, in some kind of parasitic symbiosis?

A Camera is nothing with the fuel of other people’s fuckedupness to burn. A Candle without a Camera documenting their suicide burns out without a trace.

These are the questions that this film raised, for me.

I’d agree with that. Sadly there wasn’t enough of Anton’s art to be able to judge, just from the film.

Well, that seemed to be the thing.

A short set by both should have ben an extra on the DVD, if not the actual film, really.

I’ve not seen it.

the thing that annoys me about BJM is that Anton sings almost exactly like Damon Albarn circa 1992—what’s that about?

There’s no other way!

The whole thing ended up being less of a documentary and more of a movie... Ondi Timoner HATED Anton and edited the film to make him palatable for the first 10 minutes and an angry drunken monster for the last 80. Which he is, to a degree, but not as much as the film makes him out to be. Courtney on the other hand can’t really hide his douchebaggery...

Anyone watch the commentary w/ the Dandys? When Courtney talks about giving away half his royalties no one says a fucking word :-D

sick mouthy OTM..that Anton dude huffs douche.

that Jonestown Massacre is boring.

realy good documentary, i never thought i’d get so engrossed in the saga of two b.s. 90s alt rock also-rans, but damn if i wasn’t riveted!

that courtney guy is a toolbox as well.

the only guy i liked was the joel (?) guy that just played tamborine, he seemed kool.

funny to see a young member of black rebel motorcycle club in it!

I bought a BJM retrospective recently and was surprised how much I like it. It’s messy, but it’s fun to listen to. The camera/candle debate is nice, but I just think Anton is way more innately talented than anyone in the Warhols, drugs or otherwise. Not a great band, but certainly a fun one.

Also:

“Where did the blood come from?”

“Other people’s faces!!”

How can you not love the guy.

I still think the movie is classic, but like any good movie it deviates pretty significantly from situational reality to tell a good story. Christiane above is completely OTM, Ondi herself was part of the dysfunctional BJM scene for awhile and had an axe to sharpen.

this thread begs for orbit

Biggest douche in the movie: the guitarist from the BJM who has the John Lennon glasses and haircut combo. Shoot yourself, soon.

Best bit of the movie: girl out of the Dandys getting her tits out.

she seems like a sweet gal

Yeah, nicest and most normal person in the movie.

Plus, you know,

girl out of the Dandys getting her tits out.

aww, man, they look so much better when she’s wearing a shirt.

i hate both bands, but kinda like this movie.

she seems like a sweet gal

She really is. She came up and talked to me after their performance on Regis and Kelly for a minute or two.

Good movie. I think that both bands’ music kinda stinking made it more interesting.

Sorry, kids: I HAVE HEARD OF IT. I was drunk. I liked it, agree with Nick on Anton.

need to see this again, perhaps with the commentary on this time!