Best carol is “Oh little town of bethlehem”. Amazing Geir-esque melody and I heart “The hopes and fears of all the years are met in thee tonight.”
Oooh, and second Little Donkey, surely the most indie of carols.
definitely the most twee.
Crackers are sooooooo banned from crossing the Atlantic in a suitcase or hand luggage right now. The person in the queue before me had to “relinquish” boxes of them.
Oh shit, I had better warn my mum before she buys a box of them to take back to Vermont.
xmas can eat a bag of dicks but i LOVE tacky neighborhood light displays and i LOVE how excited little kids get over the season. also, egg nog, etc.
january and february aren’t actually that rubbish though. the weather is vile but this applies to november and december too; there are a fair number of parties for the express purpose of enlivening the drear winter; i don’t do new year’s resolutions so don’t have the post-december guilt about over-consumption and so on. and they win, because they don’t have bloody xmas in them!
my favourite carol is probably ‘in the bleak midwinter’. i really really hate ‘away in a manger’. ‘silent night’ is only good if performed by people who can sing properly. i don’t like the jaunty, “wacky” carols like the glo-ooo-ooo-ria one at all. i do like ‘we three kings’ a lot!
also, i like mince pies, mulled wine, cranberry sauce and stuffing, and these seem only to occur at xmas.
I like Christmas, Little Donkey is just bollocks.
I don’t like the fact that my three brothers come home from away and all pile into the parental home and sit up all night and drink and have a great time and I’m supposed to row in with that when secretly I would rather be at home with Mister Monkey and the dogs and a box set of DVDs of some random telly programme and a bottle of wine. I am antisocial.
Little Donkey bollocks?
The true meaning of Christmas as far as I can discern is “WOOOOOOOOO JESUS #1! U-S-A! U-S-A!”
Get yr finger out of that Donkey’s stink.
the reigning sound christmas song is making me want to eat the barrel of a gun.
sorry
It’s kind of awesome that random English people know “In the Bleak Midweinter” and “The Holly and the Ivy” and others. Obv they are English in the first place!...but here, only vocalists and musicians and so-called “cultured” people know them, they don’t play in stores, they don’t get sung at casual caroling, etc.
i’ve got a weird affection for the tacky xmas non-carol songs, and only in the past year or so. “santa claus is coming to town,” “holly jolly christmas,” “jingle bell rock,” “silver and gold,” “feliz navidad,” the willie nelson “pretty paper” album, “white christmas” (amazing piece of music!!).
otherwise the holiday is bullshit, but i’ve more or less made my peace with it... gift buying is a drag that gift-getting doesn’t compensate for, but, you know what, i’m such a self-involved prick for the other 11 months of the year, a few gifts for the people who love me is not such a trial.
(much of) The Messiah is great, and “Ding Dong Merrily On High” is pretty good too. I also like David Grisman’s sf-hippie-newgrass-swing-joo-style “God Rest Ye Merry Gentlemen.” but this is y’all’s holiday.
the reigning sound christmas song is making me want to eat the barrel of a gun.
what song is this? I love the reigning sound. . .
i started a “bleak midwinter fucking ten” last year!
the reigning sound christmas song is making me want to eat the barrel of a gun.
what song is this? I love the reigning sound. . .
it’s the xmas single that came out on norton a two years ago, this version is from the ‘home for orphans’ lp that came out on sympathy for the record industry in the fall of ’05. i like this one better than the 7“ version.
People should forget the christmas bullshit and give into the natural human urge to have a big fucking party at the darkest time of the year. It’s older than Jesus, older than Abraham.
:( I would love a party. While living in Dallas I’d spend every Xmas eve at my local dive and it was great.
this year I shall be at the in-laws who don’t drink although G.‘s mother always tries to ply me with discount liqour. I’m afraid of getting drunk in front of them though.
blah ‘natural human urge’!
Aren’t there two different Bleak Midwinters? I know it as the Holst tune, Cranham, but I’m sure I’ve run into a different tune and been completely nonplussed. Also Britten does a version incorporating the corpus christi carol in ‘a boy was born’—to which I am listening right now, and it is astonishingly beautiful, and i am suddenly more sanguine about christmas.
it’s an advent carol more than a christmas one, but ‘o come o come emmanuel’ has an almost startling tune, a very echoy longing sound to it.
give into the natural human urge to have a big fucking party at the darkest time of the year
yes i do like this aspect of it. i still prefer parties in the Summer tho (long as it’s not too hot).
i like the lights as well—at least the basic but colourful and not-tacky ones
i will be happier on Friday anyway as the days will slowly start getting longer again
i love January and February. the weather during them wasn’t too bad this year (i remember a few sunny days outside with our office windows even open)
I like Christmas, Little Donkey is just bollocks.
OTMFM!!!! That and “Little town of bethlehem” are the most twee and irritating songs on the planet. That I can think of. Right now.
i will be happier on Friday anyway as the days will slowly start getting longer again
u&k
O Xmas Tree also = bollocks.
Stop singing to a tree, you daft cunts, it doesn’t understand.
Also, double triple uber bollocks, because it’s like “HEY WAIT MAYBE MR TREE DOESN’T UNDERSTAND ME—I’LL SING THE NEXT VERSE IN GERMAN”
No no no, just shut the fuck up, you twat, and sing the Glooooooooria one.
13) door to door carol singers. FUCK RIGHT OFF.
Just don’t answer the door, you daft sod.
One solution to the bleak midwinter
13) door to door carol singers. FUCK RIGHT OFF.
I don’t mind proper carol singers. It’s the three kids and a dog who stand there, mumble half a verse of Jingle Bells, and then hold out their hands for cash that I can’t stand.
I don’t open the door to anyone this time of year. No, I don’t want to buy your crappy cards made by local artists, or your home made yule logs with a plastic Christmas cake robin on them, or your dodgy turkeys that have come from god knows where and lived under god knows what conditions. GO AWAY.
Aren’t there two different Bleak Midwinters?
Yes, there are! There’s the awesome one and the boring one. (Can’t remember which is which at the moment.)
Just don’t answer the door, you daft sod.
this doesn’t stop us curmudgeons being annoyed by Jehovah’s Witnesses you...erm...zany oaf
why I hate Xmas
1) my wife being incredibly (and inconsolably) stressed-out, hyperactive, neurotic, and argumentative for several weeks
2) I’m Jewish, and Xmas was never a part of my family tradition beyond getting presents from my Christian grandparents, and my wife gets frustrated that I have little to no nostalgia or enthusiasm for the holiday
3) I have to do all the Xmas shit at work (mail out the office cards, order Poinsettias, arrange for a tree, etc.), even though I have no interest or expertise in it
4) The fact that the majority of Xtianity gets excited about rituals that have no relation to Jesus and which they have no interest in actually understanding or engaging in (fir trees, mistletoe, santa, the actual date of Xmas, etc).
5) the unspeakably disgusting orgy of BUY BUY BUY MUST PROP UP CONSUMER ECONOMY bullshit that is pounded 24–7 into yr skull no matter where you go or what you are doing
6) Sanctimonious Xtians pontificating about celebrating the holiday, even though it is some TOTAL PAGAN malarkey (see number 4).
7) Getting a bunch of crap that I have no interest in that just clutters up my house because other family members feel obligated to give me something, even though I didn’t ask for anything and have no use for ugly, oversized sweaters or VHS copies of “Truly Madly Deeply”
8) Being told that even though I’m Jewish and hate Xmas “hey you have Hannukah and that’s like the Jewish Xmas, right?” by people who have no understanding that Hannukah is a totally minor holiday in Judaism, with no special theological or religious significance, and one that didn’t have gift-giving associated with it until the last century or so when Jewish children began to feel neglected after seeing all the crap their Xtian friends got on Xmas. Hooray, Xmas managed to elevate and then corrupt a holiday from my own tradition. FUCK YOU.
9) Public transportation totally shutting down making it near impossible for me to get anywhere in the freezing cold without a car.
10) the profound alienation I feel from everyone else who is inexplicably “excited” about Xmas.
11) being obligated to go to fancy work parties, which usually necessitate the purchase and/or rental of expensive clothes and uncomfortable socializing with people I only see once a year, if ever again.
Things I like about Xmas:
1) the ready availability of Xmas lights
2) having a party with my friends on Xmas day, for which I get to prepare a huge meal and all my orphaned, family-less friends come over and we get really loaded and have a jam session
(3. oh and I also truly dig “It’s A Wonderful Life”)
(is there ah tread for peoples who cant fuck standing, at xmas?)
I don’t even mind the buying-presents-commercial part, since my siblings are all younger than me and still NEED STUFF. It’s nice to see your presents being put to use year after year, or used up enthusiastically because they are so loved. But soz, this is not my thread!
buying presents for kids is okay with me and its totally easy, its the adult-level “I am obligated to buy you something, here’s some crap” angle that seems like an endless source of unpleasantness.
No, I totally get that. We just don’t bother, in the fam. If you don’t know what to get someone, you don’t. Or you give super practical things like pocket-knives and wrench sets to everyone. I mean, as someone (ailsa?) said, all the things I might potentially hate about Christmas are just discouraged in my family celebrations. Problem solved! Again with the problem of family, tho. I think Sam’s right: grow up and hold Christmas at your house, and do as you like.
I WD NOT VOTE FOR ALL THE GEORGE BUSHES.
Yeah, I’ve come to hate Christmas: I don’t think it’s the “rampant consumerism” that infuriates me quite as much as the barely-sublimated guilt and/or aggression that seems to drive a lot of the purchasing for both children and adults alike.
I think that’s a big part of why I haven’t really been able to enjoy Christmas this year. I don’t hate it per se, I just can’t bring myself to care either way.
I’m not the greatest fan of Christmas, but the feeling of having everything done in the nick of time on Christmas Eve and sitting in front of the telly with a cup of tea and a mince pie, my feet up on the pouffe, with the tree decorated and the fire lit, slightly nervous on behalf of the little choirboy at Kings who is about to begin Once In Royal, almost makes it worthwhile. Until my sister decides it’s Karaoke Hymn Time!
i have no problem with buying gifts for friends or family and setting aside one day out of 365 to take the time to let them know (or remind yourself) that you care about them and are offering up a token to that effect. what i really dislike and what leaves a sour taste in my mouth is the 6 week hype machine that seems to be unavoidable. buy more, buy often, buy lots, overextend, and spend spend spend.
i’m reasonably certain that my favorite gift this year will be a quart sized ziploc container of chex mix that my sister made for me. i don’t need much more than that.
“barely-sublimated guilt and/or aggression that seems to drive a lot of the purchasing for both children and adults alike.”
OTFM
Mike D’s theorem might explain why I bought pocket book on ennui for sibling? UH OH
The hype machine is toootally distasteful but isn’t developing...well, if not an immunity, at least a resistance, to that pressure a big, huge part of being a thoughtful adult person? Also, may be possible to resist “guilt” or the perception of guilt for things that you rationally don’t regret in any way??
“if not an immunity, at least a resistance, to that pressure a big, huge part of being a thoughtful adult person?”
doesn’t this imply that the majority of American shoppers are not “thoughtful adult” people? seeing as how pretty much none of them resist in any meaningful way?
Like: Carols, lights, trees, feasts w/ friends and family, and everything that makes the darkening days of winter less dreary.
Dislike: When I was a kid, people complained that the Xmas season was starting even earlier than Thanksgiving. I’m sure before that tradition (almost certainly of commercial origin), there were pious people who complained that it was starting before the beginning of the advent calendar. Now it starts after Halloween. When it starts on January 7th, I think we’ll be set, unless people decide to start, say, the 2008 Xmas season on 12/26/2006.
I refuse to hate Xmas as a Christian holiday ’cause it’s just a re-tooled pre-Xtian holiday anyway. The most annoying thing about it reminds of the widespread taboo against PDA. If you’re in the mood and everything is going well, seeing other similarly festive holiday makers fills you with warmth and hope. If you’re Scrooging out or feel religiously excluded or have had it up to here with rampant consumerism or secretly (or not so secretly) wish to see your family at least dead if not extensively and creatively tortured, the holidays can fill you with a bleak, dark, view of the inherent idiocy of humanity
doesn’t this imply that the majority of American shoppers are not “thoughtful adult” people? seeing as how pretty much none of them resist in any meaningful way?
So, basically anyone who WANTS to buy presents for their families at Christmas is a brainwashed automaton unable to see through the Big Business Smokescreen? Is that the point you’re trying to make here?
Uh, what?? I think I said I am totally happy to buy things for people I love, if the things make me happy and/or the recipient feel loved & provided for! But there’s been lots of talk on this thread about the pressure people feel to give gifts, or give “good enough” gifts, or prove something by it — which SUCKS for them, and of course one would hate the season that brought that black cloud to live under.
XP to myself: I do think you can choose not to live under that pressure, though — you still have to live in the world blah blah can’t get COMPLETELY away from commercial messages that can make you feel like the way you live & shop & feel about your loved ones ISN’T GOOD ENOUGH...I’m just suggesting that over time you can make yourself less susceptible to those messages, so you can feel more awesome about your gift-giving & purchasing choices.
Decorating, taking down decorations, cleaning, cooking, getting everything ready, putting up with extended family I despise, traffic, etc..
I would be fine with Christmas if everyone would just chill the fuck out already. The world is not going to end if we’re short on green beans.
Dan I was just asking Laurel to clarify what she meant by immunity/resistance, seeing as how, y’know, people’s purchases at Christmas (whether guided by genuine affection or guilt or whatever) tend to coincide with a marketing blitz of gargantuan proportions. The cause-and-effect of gift-giving at this time of year is pretty convoluted.
(I mean, why would such a genuine compulsion to shower your friends/family with gifts be restricted to this particular time of year, if not because of market forces? Can’t a person give gifts whenever they feel like it?)
Yeah, of course! Actually I usually miss people’s birthdays but don’t feel bad ‘cos I give them books or sewing projects or whatever all year ’round. Obv my own experience is totally anecdotal and of v limited use to anyone else, I’m just sayin’.
You’ve got to be kidding.
The market forces arose because of the holiday tradition, not the other way around. Christmas != Valentine’s Day or President’s Day. Also, people tend to get presents on their birthdays and anniversaries but since those events aren’t tied to specific dates (like, say, December 25), there’s no effective marketing push that can be structured around them.
oh Dan, if you’re laboring under the misconception that Xmas gift-giving predates capitalism/merchandising/advertising you are sorely mistaken.
from Wikipedia:
“Commercialization of Christmas
Since the late 1800’s the economic importance of Christmas has lead to concerns over what is seen as the increasing commercialization of Christmas. The 1822 poem ”A Visit from Saint Nicholas“ had popularized the tradition of exchanging gifts and seasonal “Christmas shopping” began to assume economic importance.[43] In her 1850 book ”The First Christmas in New England“, Harriet Beecher Stowe wrote a character who complained that the true meaning of Christmas was being lost in a shopping spree. [44]
The importance of the economic impact of Christmas was reinforced in the 1930’s when President Franklin D. Roosevelt proposed moving the Thanksgiving holiday date to extend the Christmas shopping season and boost the economy during the Great Depression.[45] Religious leaders protested this move, with a 1931 New York Times roundup of Christmas sermons showing the most common theme as the dangers of an increasingly commercial Christmas.[46]”
Xmas-associated/seasonal gift-giving prior to the industrial revolution was scattered and a relatively minor aspect of the holiday.
Yes, the feasting is the most important and long standing part of it.
AND THE BEST.
(also drunkenness)
The hedonism is what it is there for. I’m in favour of bringing back the Equinox festivals (easter/Mayday and Michaelmas/Harvest) and the other solstice one (which never really got taken over by xtianity in a big way. Break up the year with celebrations.
a can of simonize...
Stupidest idea I had all year: trying to track down the Wire Season 3 on DVD and going to the Mall of America in December to look for it.
Ed OTM!
(Scam Goody had it for $99.99 so I gave up and went to B&N on Nicollet; copped it for $10 less.)
I love Mayday! Actually I love the whole month but I try to pay special attention on May 1st and appreciate it as it passes. Sadly I am usually not engaging in the recommended bacchanalia but one must make do.
(I know Mayday is not that near where near the spring equinox, but a spring festival nonetheless)
I’m going to a solstice party on Friday, hurrah.
The hype machine is toootally distasteful but isn’t developing...well, if not an immunity, at least a resistance, to that pressure a big, huge part of being a thoughtful adult person?
i’m not saying i’m not resistant to it, i don’t think i partake in the celebration of commercialism and consumerism that is pushed in my face on public transportation, over the public airwaves, in my in-box, in the print media, etc. i think i have a fairly good handle on it. but that doesn’t mean that i don’t find the whole six weeks of pressure-sales tactics masquerading as a means to prove your worth to your family and friends to be wholely disgusting. and if that makes me less than a “thoughtful adult person” then i guess i can live with that.
Mayday = socialist silliness + pagan hedonism = HOORAY
Let’s reclaim the human holidays from the consumerists and the religionists; but actually lets celebrate whatever we fancy celebrating at the times folk memory tells us to celebrate them.
i like getting presents.
OF COURSE IT’S DISGUSTING, Jesus Christ. But so what?? I sort of feel like it doesn’t have anything to do with me, tho maybe I can afford to think that cos NYC (outside of major shopping centers HI DERE ROCK PLAZA FUCK YOU) is less Christmas-observing/more multi-cultural...? And it’s not in yr face so much. Doing majority of shopping online helps massively.
I don’t know if a source that actively contradicts the point you’re trying to make is necessarily what you want there, Shakey.
OF COURSE IT’S DISGUSTING, Jesus Christ. But so what??
so what? so it’s my opinion.
get one reading comprehension Dan.
I have reading comprehension, thanks.
1. A poem gets published in 1822 that popularizes the idea of exchanging gifts on Christmas.
2. Businesses respond to popular trend by offering sales.
3. By 185, people are complaining that Christmas has become commercialized.
Note how the people exchanging presents bit happens before the businesses run ads bit. Your analysis of that only works if you are assuming that “A Visit from Saint Nicholas” was written with the intent to increase Christmas sales, an assumption that is not supported by the material you present.
yes its just a coincidence that gift-giving became associated with Christmas at the same time that the industrial revolution was giving brith to mass production and advertising of products was becoming more and more common. Yeah no “market forces” involved there I’m sure. wtf.
I’m just going to call you Assumption Boy from now on.
dude the point is that you are wrong to claim that Xmas gift-giving predated capitalist market forces. no assumptions necessary.
(Xtian reveler in denial of history of own fucking holiday SHOCKAH)
People have been exchanging gifts at the solstice for ages. Look at the Saturnalia!!
but actually lets celebrate whatever we fancy celebrating at the times folk memory tells us to celebrate them.
The idea that folk memory can be divorced from religion and economics is risible.
god, you guys can even make grinches look like smileyhappyfunpeople.
SCHWARZENEGGER CHRISTMAS MOVIE FLOP
ARNOLD SCHWARZENEGGER’s Christmas movie JINGLE ALL THE WAY has been voted the worst seasonal film ever.
The 1996 comedy sees Schwarzenegger attempting to secure a fantastic Christmas present for his son—but 3000 film goers polled failed to see the funny side to his festive plight, according to cinema website PearlandDean.com.
Surreal 1960s movie SANTA CONQUERS THE MARTIANS was the second least favourite film, with TIM ALLEN starring in two of the most hated ‘comedies’—CHRISTMAS WITH THE KRANKS and THE SANTA CLAUSE.
KATHRYN JACOBS of Pearl + Dean says, “Everybody loves a good family film at Christmas but they can’t all be classics like It’s A Wonderful Life.
”We think Arnie is a very worthy winner.“
Other movies in the top 10 include HOME ALONE, MIRACLE ON 34TH STREET, SANTA CLAUS: THE MOVIE and BAD SANTA.
The idea that folk memory can be divorced from religion and economics is risible.
I never posited that idea.
i misread laurel upthread so i’m sorry for getting my crankypants on.
Also, Newsong’s “The Christmas Shoes” (which I miraculously managed to avoid for the last five years) is the worst piece of music ever composed.
I know small gifts were exchanged at Saturnalia but I was under the impression that the greater emphasis was on the upheaval of the prevailing social order and the excessive feasting/drunkenness/sacrificing...
“The Christmas Shoes” would be great if the kid stabbed the narrator at the end and stole his wallet. (xpost)
yes but the sonic’s “santa claus” is one of the best pop songs ever written so it all balances out.
xpost.
The last sentence of your “proof” states that gift-giving existed before the Industrial Revolution. The distinction of whether it was a limited or integral part of the holiday is completely beside the point that IT EXISTED, which was the point you were arguing.