I got called a Scrooge for doing this in The Other Place.

that’s what they call people who can’t fucking stand christmas

Hi dere!

(I don’t hate Christmas, I just don’t make a big deal of it)

fucking scrooge thread.

fucking presents. fuck it!

fucking cards.

I often wonder what’s going on with people who hate Christmas because I really, really love it. Then I run across things like this:

A little part of me may understand now.

Enrique do you actually like anything? At all?

How big is that upside-down tree? My mind is boggling.

i like presents—got an egg pan in sweet yankee swap action the other night.

In the past I’ve mostly really hate xmas. This has less to do with the actual holiday though than with all of the family bullshit that surrounds. This year the hate is not so strong however. (that could be due to new pills).

One year, I was given a Grinch sweatshirt for xmas. It was nice.

i’ve got nothing against christmas, it’s the people who try to force-feed the artificial happiness and “christmas cheer” to me that piss me off. the holiday itself seems to have lost any meaning for me, it’s more of an orgy of rampant consumerism than anything else. plus events that transpired on christmas in my recent past have left a bad taste in my mouth.

Enrique do you actually like anything? At all?
— Matt DC (runmd...), December 19th, 2006.

i like tv.

I have found Xmas fairly easy to avoid this year.

The only thing that really wound me up was my brother emailing me to ask what I wanted for Xmas (after already taking my mother to task because he did not politically approve of the present she requested (spanish learning tapes)).

I like the idea of a big winter festival. But it is supposed to cheer people up. Not wind them up. Which is what our Winter Consumerfest does.

It all depends where you are.

Xmas in the UK: watery brussel sprouts, overcooked oversized turkey with lumpy gravy, everybody drunk on lager by 11 o’clock in the morning, no public transport no nothing except crap ‘xmas’ tv...

Xmas in France: oysters, smoked salmon, champagne, public transport, everyone back to work the next day...

I’ve already bitched to Ed about the lack of public transport thing.

oh god yes public transport. having it — and it’s pretty fucked on 24th and 26th — would solve me some problems.

Xmas in the UK: watery brussel sprouts, overcooked oversized turkey with lumpy gravy, everybody drunk on lager by 11 o’clock in the morning, no public transport no nothing except crap ‘xmas’ tv...

See, that also depends on where in the UK they are. Nothing like that in *my* house.

Or my house.

I don’t get wound up by Christmas.

I can’t say I like xmas very much.

Ach it’s all the “and that’s what I Get? And that’s what you think of me? and that’s why life is worth living?” subtext...

everybody drunk on lager by 11 o’clock in the morning

that would either be great or disastrous depending on which branch of the family I was visiting.

Xmas Eve—no transport because Thameslink no run on Sunday

Xmas—no transport

Boxing day—no transport

We were thinking of going to Herts to spend Xmas with family but being stuck there for four days was not our idea of a good time.

:-(

IF A BRUSSELS SPROUT SEE BOILING WATER FOR MORE THAN A MINUTE IT IS RUINED.

(My family are quite passionate about brassicas)

I absolutely hate christmas shopping this year in the physical sense...i loved it in the past. but i really cant stand it this year. thats why i signed up for amazon prime. now i love christmas shopping again.

The way to get through it is to watch any version of A Christmas Carol and turn it off just before Marley’s Ghost arrives (ditto when James Stewart is about to jump off the bridge).

Maybe for some of you, it’s not that you hate “Christmas” as much as it is you hate “your friends, family and acquaintences”?

‘amazon prime’?

oh fuck a christmas carol.

except for one trip to target I’ve bought everything online. (or made it myself so I don’t count trips to fabric/craft store as shopping.)

I only really shop for my nieces/nephew and boyfriend though so it’s fun.

xpost. I hate my family Dan, this is true.

Maybe for some of you, it’s not that you hate “Christmas” as much as it is you hate “your friends, family and acquaintences”?
— Jesus Dan (djperr...), December 19th, 2006.

ding ding ding!

Ha, I thought I was going to get yelled at for suggesting that!

I don’t buy or get presents. I like spending time with family and friends and eating nice food. I kind of don’t like that I feel tied to doing it on a certain date, but then again I get time off work especially for that purpose, so that’s kind of as good a reason as any to go visiting. And I don’t do it *exclusively* at Christmas, so it’s not like I am being forced into spending time with people I don’t want to spend time with.

(xpost, Dan OTM)

I’ll yell at you, Dan. The aggressive NECESSITY to “make merry” and play the world’s worst music is what I hate. Unnatural.

Fortunately Sis will be a little less Mrs Santa this year while she rests up with her c-section scar (the Greatest Gift of All).

i’d love to work a ‘no gifts’ angle a la larry david but i don’t think it’d go down so well with everyone else.

...in that what I hate about Christmas is people who feel they have to be or do something that isn’t in keeping with the rest of the year just because it’s what people do at Christmas (spend lots of money, eat food they aren’t that keen on, visit relatives they dislike, etc etc)

(xxpost to myself about why Dan = OTM)

actually i love my friends and family but i won’t be seeing them this season.

i do get a bit overwhelmed at christmas time because there is always some sort of family drama, but its usually nothing some ale cant fix. and a couple mutton ribs.

I’m seeing mine the week after xmas. it’s my concession.

from a site I’m working on:

a child’s kwanzza bowl. I wonder if he thought of this on his own or if he was prompted.

So far when Christmas Shopping this year, I have spent more on me than anyone else.

(OK, that’s because I couldn’t find the present I was going to get Mum, but still)

For me Christmas isn’t that much different to the rest of the year, because we don’t go anywhere and we don’t have relatives over. By Tuesday night, though, I can assure you I’ll be very bored of spending time with the parents.

I love Christmas music, particularly the first part of “The Messiah”, “I Wonder As I Wander”, “Personet Hodie”, “O Come, O Come Emmanuel”, “Coventry Carol”, “Tomrrow Shall Be My Dancing Day”, “Joy To The World”, “Adeste Fidelis”, “In Dulci Jubilo” and “God Rest, Ye Merry Gentlemen”.

I do love the song “Just Like Christmas” by Low.

otto otm upthread

that picture upthread clearly isn’t an upside-down tree but an especially festive merkin...

Most of Dan’s playlist (and Low! must remember to bring it to Connecticut) is fine with me, but all the ez-lisnin stuff is what I tend to be tortured with.

Otto otm, enforced jollity = bummer.

I hate:

1- The fact that my wife is depressed, likely as not, during the holidays;

2—The fact that my work keeps me insanely busy from about Nov. 20 to Dec. 15 every year, after which I can be guaranteed that everything I want to order from a catalogue is on backorder;

3—The consumerist orgy that compels my wife to self-medicate by trying to shop her way into a better mood;

4—the consumerist orgy, period.

Sparkly!

Are those lights? In that case, I hope they don’t run hot...

(xxpost)

Someone create a Venn diagram incorporating posters’ contribution to ILM and their hatred of Christmas. I’m curious.

it’s odd i was all like ‘oh SO WHAT if it’s a big ol’ consumerfest’ but now i’m back at ‘fuck a consumerfest you crazy 19% interest rate credit card motherfuckers’.

1- The fact that my wife is depressed, likely as not, during the holidays;

I feel sad for my bf. :(

Mark Kozeleks “Little Drummer Boy”...all time fav Christmas song.

also, global warming ain’t helping, I want some sodding snow.

i hate xmas. partly yes, this is because i hate my family and where they live, but it’s the whole bloody HASSLE of it all which makes me grumpy—the xmas shopping hell (both “what on earth do i buy” and the actual physical nightmare of buying it), the bombardment on all sides with enforced jollity and unbearable xmas muzak (if any shops ever piped through dan’s playlist it might have some relevance to this thread, but slade’s ‘merry xmas everybody’ is fucking indefensible), the VILE WEATHER, and the fact that i get holiday time (YAY) which i have to waste by trekking out to stay with my family and feel like a sulky teenager all over again (BOO).

oh yes and i hate the way people keep trying to bring RELIGION into it all! aargh.

having said that i did get to eat a GINGERBREAD BABY JESUS at the weekend (after smashing its head in with a hammer first)

Pogues—Fairytale of New York, my fave.

I also like that one about the bells that has fast singing and other people going “ding dong ding dong”. yes you can tell I’m up with xmas carols.

Year before last I bought a couple of friend’s John Water’s xmas CD. That was cool.

Easy listening sucks hard unless it’s the cool GRP lite-jazz xmas album (ie, the first one).

oh yes and i hate the way people keep trying to bring RELIGION into it all! aargh.

Okay big fucking lols at this.

I also like that one about the bells that has fast singing and other people going “ding dong ding dong”. yes you can tell I’m up with xmas carols.

“Carol of the Bells”, which is also fun.

doing regular things like going to the post office is fucked up by christmas.

i mean the annual moans about how xmas isn’t what it used to be, is too commercialised, which are generally more deafening than the commercialism itself

doing regular things like going to the post officewalking down the street is fucked up by christmas.

i actually like a fair amount of xmas songs. JUST NOT SLADE.

lex = hellbound (not news)

i heard a really bad — possibly britney — ‘christmas’ song, sounded like it was recorded in july, based on her ‘seducing’ santa, in rymans earlier. dirre.

was it her version of “santa baby”? That was a good song and every pop-tart who’s redone it should be shot.

i did all my shopping in the traditional off line way this year, it was stressful but yet much more satisfying than I expected. One thing I ordered online was a huge ships steering wheel, yet to arrive.

i’m enjoying xmas, so i shouldn’t really be on this thread.

but only to say YA HUMBUGS!

AS someone who hates organized religion, I naturally hate Christmas. Sometimes people tell me “oh, you just hate the commercialism. You don’t really hate the TRUE meaning of Christmas.”

Sorry, dudes. Yes, I do.

it wasn’t ‘santa baby’.

I like the Carol that goes “Gloooooooooooooooo—ooooooooooooooo—ooooooooooooo—ooooooooooooo—ooooooooooooo—ooooooooooooria”

plz 2 note that i added spaces so as to not brake formatting bcuz i am thoughtful and nice.

AS someone who hates organized religion, I naturally hate Christmas. Sometimes people tell me “oh, you just hate the commercialism. You don’t really hate the TRUE meaning of Christmas.”

Isn’t the true meaning of Christmas something along the line of thinking of others?

I’m not crazy about organized religion either.

I think the true meaning of christanity is LOVE but this has been lost amongst all the modern interpretations of HATE.

reasons i dislike this time of year:

1) it’s the end of the year and i tend to feel i’ve under-achieved because i’m hard on myself, lazy yet perfectionist, so that is weighing on my mind a bit

2) family are not close-knit so lots of awkward small talk ensues that is v difficult to expand on (and i’ve tried more in the last few years) as everyone seems so fucking dull/unwilling to talk about anything they’re interested in themselves, assuming there are things (possibly not) but i feel quite detached culturally now

3) i dislike that it’s not easy to move around/go where you want on the day itself esp. given that i don’t drive

4) the routine of it all, the willingness by so many to do the same thing every year. i can see how it’s a re-assuring thing and exercise in stability but for me it is just a reminder that things did not go to script.

5) forced sense of fun

6) gift system is balls—“get me this” vs “get me something you think i’ll like”—neither approach really makes sense or is satisfying. i prefer spontaneous gift-giving. unfortunately i am poor at thinking of good presents for people (it mysteriously becomes a lot easier after the event). i can’t think of anything novel i’d like other people to get me (i’d rather buy my own CDs, DVDs, books, boring stuff etc.).

7) i have less inclination to drink myself silly than most, for whatever reason. i’ve never been drunk on christmas day—i’m clearly just not cut out for it.

8) commercialisaton and tackiness of so much

9) shitty crackers with their shitty hats, shitty jokes and shitty toys within

10) even more crap than usual on TV (wheel out the Vicar Of Dibley etc.)

apart from all that, i’m fine with it!

oh yeah and

11) the whole religious thing

i think the true meaning of christianity is right there in commandment #1.

9) shitty crackers with their shitty hats, shitty jokes and shitty toys within

So funny—I’m an American, I love crackers. You must be a Britisher. Christmas crackers are one of the few Britisher traditions that I totally love love love, but that’s probably b/c they haven’t been shoved down my throat for years.

I like the Carol that goes “Gloooooooooooooooo—ooooooooooooooo—ooooooooooooo—ooooooooooooo—ooooooooooooo—ooooooooooooria”

“Ding Dong Merrily On High” or “Angels We Have Heard On High”, depending on which song you’re talking about.

“A thread for Dan to name Christmas carols based on people’s descriptions”

IN EXCELSIST DAY-O BITCHES

Dan is the carol masta.

I’ve never had a cracker. I want one. Maybe I should start this tradition. We play loteria on xmas at my Mexican family’s house and you win little wrapped presents like hot wheels. That’s fun.

When we have a child I’ve already decided that xmas will be at our house every year and petty family members can come or not, their choice. At my xmas we shall have crackers and loteria.

I’ve managed to weedle out of going to the family this year, so I can just keep well out of the way. I shall be spending the christmas weekend alternating between 1) getting off my tits and 2) sleeping it off.

still giggling at dan’s special christmas merkin posted upthread

I like a lot of things about Xmas (cookies, presents, lights, music). Here’s what I hate:

1. the hyper-religious Christmas letters some people send

2. the whole “war on Xmas” b.s. from people who seem to think that Xmas is about whether retailers say “merry Christmas” to them or not—when it is commercialism itself that seems most at odds to me with what they profess to believe

3. the fact that, this year, we’re going to wind up at a Catholic children’s mass because my mother is a master engineer of this kind of thing

Favorite carols: “What Child is This” and whatever one starts with the thing about holly and ivy.

That plus taking a break from work, seeing friends and family, stuffing yourself and giving a big middle finger to the cold weather. Oh and “Jesus’ birthday.” Happy birthday, Jesus! (?)

Coventry Carol is such an amazing song. The clear and knifing harmonies in it, and the sense of foreboding, just slay me. It’s like the singers are singing over the creche and telling Jesus that his entire life is doomed to suffering.

My other favorites are “God Rest Ye Merry, Gentlemen” (or is it “God Rest Ye, Merry Gentlemen”?) (I don’t think it’s what Dan wrote) which is a great old barnburner about benevolent dictators and wintry nights—“where the snow lay dinted” !!—and “Silent Night”, which in the church I grew up in was sung with all the lights off and each person holding a candle, and no accompaniment, and I think of the guy who wrote it and how his church organ had broken or something and he had to play it to his congregation on guitar. “Radiant beams from thy holy face”—my grandmother with tears streaming down her cheeks in the glow of the candles.

My last two Christmas Days have actually been v nice because i spent them at home with just Alix before waiting until Boxing Day before going to see my Dad’s side of the family and then having dinner my Mum that afternoon. Anyway I’m grateful at least that they all actually do get on and there’s no actual hostility, just social crapness.

And the time off work is obv. nice as it means I’ve got more time to do my own thing(s).

Crackers are sooooooo banned from crossing the Atlantic in a suitcase or hand luggage right now. The person in the queue before me had to “relinquish” boxes of them.

Actually, the thing I hate most is that “Christmas Shoes” song. It seriously makes me itch to break things.

2. the whole “war on Xmas” b.s. from people who seem to think that Xmas is about whether retailers say “merry Christmas” to them or not—when it is commercialism itself that seems most at odds to me with what they profess to believe

absolutely. people just trying to stir things up with the liberals. bastards.

“God Rest Ye Merry, Gentlemen” (or is it “God Rest Ye, Merry Gentlemen”?)

i think we should ask rjg.

So funny—I’m an American, I love crackers.

I keep seeing this in an entirely wrong context.

Shits I hate:

1) Jingle bell sounds in every single TV commercial

2) “comin’ down the chimney down”

3) Christmas being synonymous with Minnesota 5-degree days of hell (though this has been weirdly absent this year; it’s been in the 30s and 40s all week and I miss the snow)

4) what residual joy I have re: Christmas since converting to Judiasm being shat on by people who try to turn it into their own personal platform for whining about “secular humanists” trying to force “Happy Holidays” on people [haha xp]

Favorite carols: “What Child is This” and whatever one starts with the thing about holly and ivy.

AKA “The Holly and the Ivy”?

Good things about Xmas:

1. It is actually socially acceptable if not encouraged to have a drink at 11am in the office

2. Seeing my family. This is fine from my standpoint as they’re close by anyway and I can get back to my everyday life quickly and easily at the end of it

3. Okay it makes pubs rubbish but my morning train is half empty all the time, yay

4. I like carols

5. Best part of a fortnight off work without having to take any holiday

6. Oh yeah, loads of massive fuckoff parties

7. I don’t have much trouble having fun, even when it is forced

8. The sense of naive belief that the Doctor Who Christmas special won’t be rubbish

9. Crass commercialism. The crasser the better. Last thing we want is subtle commercialism.

10. Religion. I don’t actually believe in anything, but I like annoying self-righteous preaching atheists almost as much as self-righteous preaching Xtians.

“comin’ down the chimney down”

That song was on the Xmas tape that constantly played when I worked at Casual Corner a long time ago. Horrible job, and by the end if it I hated that music.

Also, it was during the Xmas season that some woman in line to buy something literally threw the box of pantyhose she was going to buy at me because she thought she was in line ahead of some other woman. (Working in retail can make you hate Xmas.)

AKA “The Holly and the Ivy”?

Yeah, that’s the one. THANKS DAN! ;)

11. If it wasn’t Christmas then December would be just like January or February IE RUBBISH.

i think jan and feb are only rubbish because the collective mania of december has to end up as a crashing depression.

WhatI do not like about Christmas — in my family, it has never been a night or day for jubilation or partying, it’s a time for quiet reflection and sitting by the fire doing absolutely nothing and going to bed early. LAME. (In the lovely Emma B’s house, they have a five-hour dinner punctuated with dancing and capped off with gift-giving at 2am. Yes!)

“Ding Dong Merrily on High” has the nicest descant part! Also “Lo, Like a Rose” and “In the Bleak Midwinter” and that cradle rocking song.

but my birfday is in December. :(

I don’t much like christmas because there seems to be this great great weight of expectation on you—to get the right gifts for people, to express the right thanks, to enjoy yourself sufficiently, to fulfil the right traditions and spout the right opinions and generally perform your part. Even though my family are fairly easygoing, I just... I don’t know, it feels oppressive.

my favourite carols = all of ‘a ceremony of carols’ by benjamin britten. oh, and ‘a boy was born’. and ‘st nicholas’ while i’m at it (okay that’s more general december). And all the ones with descants, and some of the ones that don’t have them, and especially the ones with crunchy-close alto parts. Carols are amazing, they’re so satisfying to sing.

“Silent Night”

this one has a place in my heart, because my mother told me that when she was little she thought that “round yon virgin” was “round john virgin” and she always wondered why a fat guy was suddenly mentioned.

Little Donkey!

Yes, I love good moving alto parts that slide around and pressure the melody and then resolve just when the tension-having chord has built.

:)

up there with “Gladly the cross eyed bear” and “A wean in a manger”

xxpost

trees, crapping gnomes, fat beardy men, wizened witches, huge burning logs

please to concrete over

Folk a “Jesus is the reason for the season” posters, cards, etc.

i like all the pagany stuff (without knowing enough about it)

what else is there to know? Putting trees inside your house, heating wine, telling children about a man who comes down your chimney.. I don’t see how any of this is really “suppressed”

Singing thinly veiled anthems to the Sun to make him come back and work properly again...

My brother was the choir director at St. James in NYC, and had a rather good choir. (Rich church=paid pros in the choir). He made a Christmas CD, but I can’t find the cover, so can’t give the full track listing. There is a rather rousing version of “Go, Tell it On The Mountain!”, with the kid choir bellowing out the chorus.

I, too, love “I Wonder as I Wander”, and some other weird ones, like “I Saw Three Ships”. I don’t understand “Three Ships”...but I like it.

“Good King Wenceslaus”—another fave, because, as the youngest of four, and the only girl, I always was the page.

I hate “Oh, Holy Night” unless Cher is singing it.

last year, i went to Christmas services at the congregational church, which was basically just a carol sing. Then I delivered altar flowers (poinsettias, natch) to shut-ins.

So...eating, drinking, and SINGING are the most important components of the holidays, i think.

“Joy To The World” is overdone, and much tougher to sing than most people realize until they start huffing through the “heav’n and nature” part, and suddenly have to jump an octave—generally, when sung in a group, you start losing singers during that part, and then they all come back for the top of the next verse. Which is funny.

i also like doing the community sing of “The Messiah”—much enthusiasm, a professional choir and orchestra to keep us all going, some people just dropping out and sitting down—so much fun.The olympics of Christmas singing.

I put together a whistling choir one year, I think another ilxor participated. We performed, impromptu, in the middle of town—nobody who saw us really understood what was going on.

Oh, I like all the vocal leaps in Joy To The World. Especially on the second verse, where it goes “and wonders of his love...” because I had a dog called Wonder who used to go nuts when I started singing “wuuu-UHN-ders wuuuu-uuuuu-uuuun-ders” and start howling.

Yes, singing is U&K at Xmas.

Maybe the rampant consumerism of Christmastime is just a modern iteration of the midwinter bacchanal—it’s another form of mass indulgence in excess, after all.

...yeah, just with a slightly longer hangover.

Maybe the rampant consumerism of Christmastime is just a modern iteration of the midwinter bacchanal—it’s another form of mass indulgence in excess, after all.
— cis boom bah (cispontin...), December 20th, 2006.

‘iteration’ is a weasel word innit!

i mean, NO basically. people rly overreact to the reformation, sometimes.

Yay for the “wuuu-uuuu-uuun-ders” of Wonder the Dog’s love!

On the pop side, I do like “Chestnuts roasting on an open fire..” (The Christmas Song?), and White Christmas—but only once or twice per season, which means avoiding malls.

I expect to be roundly denounced for saying this, but I get a little choked up at the opening chords of “Do They Know It’s Christmas?”—it’s an ’80’s thing.Plus Boy George followed by Simon LeBon followed by Bono....I always hear it in the car,on the radio, and end up singing along at the top of my lungs.

I spent Christmas aged 12–18 in Scotland, with my dad. “Mary’s Boychild” got played a lot—not so much in the states. Because I never hear it I have good memories of it. or maybe it is good.

iteration is not a weasel word

all my words are weasel words! Although in this case I used ‘iteration’ cos I couldn’t think of the word I meant.

What do you mean by ‘people overreact to the reformation’? I think the reformation was hugely important in the development of modern western capitalism (and in saying ‘the reformation’ I also mean the counter-reformation, and I think both of these were at least partly caused by nascent capitalism anyway), so maybe I’m overemphasising it there? Er, anyway, surely people celebrate big cultural festivals in a way that reflects their cultural standards/mores/values/etc? And we’re in a time where success can be measured in goods and in successfully-fulfilled social obligations, so why wouldn’t we emphasise them at a festival which—it seems to me—is about displaying excess in a time of scarcity. People aren’t just calling the sun back, winter’s surely a time when one would have been reliant on stored grain and cured meat, and the prospect of running out of both was very real. To have a bacchanal in the middle of winter is a gesture of defiance against the fear of future starvation, and a gesture of faith in the turning of the seasons and the return of spring. Given that, these days, most westerners are still getting fresh food in midwinter, and future bad harvests don’t have much of a meaning to us, surely we’re expressing something different, but using the same mechanism.

good god, some of you are serious grinches. who the fuck cares if its been commercialized BIG FUCKING DEAL.

uh you know what the thread is about right?

but the commercialisation of Christmas doesn’t really bother me anymore than the commercialisation of anything popular i should say.

So now, in the midst of serious crippling debt culture, people are expressing their defiance against the fear of even more crippling debt? A gesture of faith that money grows on trees, or they’ll win the lottery, or something else to justify these massive expression of living beyond one’s means?

yes very good.

iteration is a weasel word cos it sort of lets in a lot of parallelism and continuity-ism etc. it doesn’t explain, it can’t account for things. how could modern society be an ‘iteration’ of olden society. it mutated (well and truly) out of it.

when i say ‘overreact’ to the reformation i mean overreact as in they hate it so much they go over to weirdybeardy gnomes-n’-pagans shit.

xpost kate otm

xpost or that they will die and all their debts get written off.

it mutated (well and truly) out of it.

yes but it also repeats. people establish traditions such as Christmas largely so they can have something to carry out again and again as a means of stability. many things AROUND it change/mutate but not so much about it really.

Kate—I hadn’t got quite that far in my thinking yet! But, yeah, I think some of those things. And also just a general emphasising of the things in which you feel threatened by an uncaring, uncontrollable future—not just economically, socially and emotionally as well.

Enrique, I think the version of things in my head says “modern society and olden society r different iterations of the manifestation of human culture” but it’s entirely possible that I’m just misusing the word. Are you sure it’s a well-and-true mutation away?

I do dislike the implication that commercialism is something unnatural, something imposed-from-outside, rather than something that characterises our culture and which grew perfectly naturally from human society, and which will eventually be overtaken by something else. The “weirdybeardy gnomes-n’-pagans shit” kinda leaves me cold cos I don’t believe we can go back to any ‘purer’ way of life, if such ever existed, so it seems like so much futile chatter.

This thread is making me like christmas more!

Enrique, I think the version of things in my head says “modern society and olden society r different iterations of the manifestation of human culture”

yeah i don’t think that.

Are you sure it’s a well-and-true mutation away?

yeah!

i don’t think consumerism is ‘unnatural’ or an externally imposed thing. it has so transformed the world that i don’t think there are many things we have in common with the past — and even that doesn’t bother me; but it’s a cruel system based on economic exploitation of, at various points, slaves, the working class, and the third world.

Haha I just realized I have been mixing up “God Rest Ye Merry, Gentlemen” with “Good King Wenceslaus” ... they’re both sort of bellowy, male-part-of-the-choir songs.

“Page and monarch forth they went! Forth they went together! Through the rude wind’s wild lament, and the winter weather!”

My dad always sings out very harrumphy and gleefully at the “Bring me flesh and bring me wine! Bring me pine logs hither!!” part.

And of course the part where Wenceslaus tells his page to follow behind him and step in his footprints in the snow, to make it easier for him, saying that in doing so, the winter’s rage will “freeze thy blood less coldly”—genius.

Bring me pine logs hither!

If he was a truly good king he’s have been calling for Oak or Ash.

oh oh oh not implying that you did think consumerism was unnatural! just that it’s a thing that I infer a lot from people’s criticisms of the commercialisation of xmas, overreactions to the reformation, et cet, both from those who want MORE JESUS and those who want MORE PAGANRY.

I don’t agree that it’s a well-and-true mutation away at all! I think we’ve carried over so many institutions, so many traditions where even if the surface meaning has completely changed the underlying emotional need is the same, and we still have a great number of the same needs and desires and urges and so on, which still need to be dealt with, even if we’re using different tools. We haven’t had long enough to mutate out of the past, I think. (was there ever a non-cruel system? I suppose economic exploitation of another class/social group becomes more widespread under capitalism, and under consumerism the exploiting group seems to be getting larger and larger, but...)

xposts: Not just male-part-of-the-choir though, Tracer! The ladies get to sing the page’s part, preferably in the plummiest voices they can manage.

xpost maybe there were only pine trees.

Lots of conifers in the bohemian forests, of course he was using pine.

i bet he had some decent burning wood for his own fire.

The best thing about Christmas this year is our first real Christmas tree this year (bought in lieu of furniture) and just looking at it makes me feel festive.

The worst thing is trying to get the house organised. Most of our things are still in boxes, which are under boxes, between boxes and beside boxes. There are presents amongst them somewhere.

We tried to get the cable installed but the first appointment isn’t until January “because of Christmas”. Costing us a fortune in mobile bills.

Ordered a new front door, but can’t get it fitted until January “because of Christmas”. Grrrrrr.

But to be honest I think this is going to be my best Christmas ever.

no debts = collapse of western culture (UK and US GDP figures to thread please)

i was having the serious melt down, Christmas fucking sucks! sort of mental snap last year. Tried to convince my family that giving useless presents is wrong, we should contribute everything to a charity, only the kids (two nieces and one nephew) should get gifts.

i feel differently this year, but only because I’ve ignored everything except a couple of parties and the singing part.

I have purchased nothing. I know what I have to buy, and I’ll do so on Friday, mentally prepared to plunge in and purchase, not “shop”. For me, wandering around with other people in gigantic malls is soul deadening whatever the time of year—and worse now, because of the junk that’s being sold, and, yes, I can end up weeping on the couch because the toy aisles at Target, with all of the people with kids revealing all of the pathos of their home life right in front of the Bratz dolls, makes me feel sad and queasy.

Scrooge was a misanthrope. The message of that story is that community is important. i tend to believe that community is important—if only to experience it and bitterly report back on how much it sucked.

At least I tried!

i have had a lot of church in my life, so, while not being all that much of a churchie person, I grew up with the music, and the mysteries. So that’s what I enjoy. Especially the non-mysterious part of the hilarity that ensues when people try to sing together once a year.

Somebody stole the baby jesus from the creche again. last year, they stole the baby jesus, but that was the original baby jesus for the creche. (a ceramic baby jesus—the creche is all old, ceramic, life-size figurines. The original baby jesus grew up and became a carpenter and etc.—I’m glad i have corrected this, because i almost opened myself up to a huge hilarity on ilx. ) So the church replaced it with a doll. Stealing the baby jesus from the creche? I don’t know—I like pranks, and might have thought it was funny. “We got the baby jesus and we brought him to your house!” in the past, in my youth. But now I think I would be, um—faintly amused, and pissed off that i had to return it.

A camel has been stolen, as well. More confusing for the church, the police, and the press, because it’s a large, heavy camel (ceramic, I think.), which would involve a truck of some sort.

A menorah in Springfield ( a city near me, where my Mom lives, where i grew up), was vandalized. broken and spray painted with swastikas.

So, goodness, lots of people are reacting to this time of year in weird ways. Weird and violent ways.

I’m going to keep singing.

Stealing baby jesuses is a time-honoured bored punk kid tradition. I had a goth mate who had a whole posse of them! It got so bad at my mum’s old church that they used to nail the baby jesus to the creche.

Of course, this provoked endless hilarity—barely even born, and he’s already Nailed Right In.

I feel ya Rumpie—I’m in a new flat too and we don’t have jack sh*t for electronic amenities but I’m looking at it as a vacation from connectivity and it’s pretty cool, actually. (I’ve still got the radio!)

aimurchie you rock this thread.

“My life flows on in endless song, above earth’s lamentation...”

nail the baby jesus to the creche.

This make me laugh so much, especially about the stigmata.

Haha I just realized I have been mixing up “God Rest Ye Merry, Gentlemen” with “Good King Wenceslaus”

Ha. For a moment I thought you meant the Hemingway short story (a splendid antidote against merriment, btw).

Well, I do like giving gifts to people but I *hate* receiving what I’d call ‘obligation’ gifts. My mother and I have nearly come to blows over bad gifts on numerous occasions. We have always had good food, though, and that is the most important thing. Everyone makes a dish each and thusly Scandinavian potlach tradition marries up nicely to PRIME RIB.

My sister’s birthday was yesterday so the whole week is one long face-stuffing. I think I’m gonna call my cousin T and hit the road with him today; only three people left to find gifts for!

Oh yeah—Good King Wencelaus HAS to be one of the most pagan of carols. I think I was five when I first sang the page part. I’m sure the congregation was nervous about me remembering the words.

Plus, when you’re five, it’s a story that makes sense like a fairytale.

Singing to my big brother ‘Sire the night grows darker now, and the wind grows stronger. fails my heart, I know not how, I can go no longer.“ Knowing full well he would be giving me a noogie at some point soon, while we appeared to be angelic little children? Classic.

fuck, i guess i am getting a white x-mas. supposed to snow 2 feet today and tomorrow.

How thrilling! I long for deep fluffy snow.... probably won’t get any until March though—not quite Christmassy.

It’s cold enough for snow but the skies seem to have emptied after those 6 straight weeks of constant rain.

Good King Wenceylas isn’t at all pagan unless you consider saints to be christian/pagan syncretism! Story of GKW = Vaclav I of Bohemia is a saint (Christian monarch who died a martyr’s death at hands of pagan usurper), he does good works, he is capable of small miracles e.g. the places where he has trodden are warm due to ardour of sanctity or sth. Just cos there’s no Jesus doesn’t mean it’s not fundamentally Christian.

gosh I am really bringing the fascinating today.

“My life goes on, in endless song.

How can I keep from singing?”

There are some amazing versions of THAT song.

I only know the slow, lovely, folk version.

But i’ve heard a gospel version that was great!

I’m big fan of “Morning Has Broken” as a hymn. in a way, I think it could be a Christmas hymn/carol—also, a song lots of people know beyond “santa baby” and such.

Yusuf Islam made it popular, but it’s actually an old, Scottish hymn. The music is old. The words? Rabbie Burns?

“Morning has broken, like the first morning.

Blackbird has spoken, like the first bird.

Praise for the singing, praise for the morning.

Praise for them springing, fresh from the world.”

It breaks my heart.

i really dont like snow when people expect you to come into work.

Morning Has Broken, definitely a hymn, not Scottish though.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morning_Has_Broken

Rick Wakeman! Ha ha.

i don’t think it can be. But this means that you’ve got to accept that midwinter bacchanalia goes back further than Bacchus. Christmas is the least ‘Christian’ Christian Holiday and always has been. Radical Christians have tried to get rid of it on a number of occasions, because it wasn’t a biblical holiday, because it was too pagan, because people were feasting and playing murderous games of football instead of fastin. It is so chocked full of non-christian traditions it’s a wonder Jesus get’s a look in at all, what with all the trees, crapping gnomes, fat beardy men, wizened witches, huge burning logs, highly spiced food and drink and all the things that go into ensuring the sun stops lurking by the horizon and gets on with a proper job of work of a day.

I thoroughly agree, actually, but now we have globalized, multi-cultural societies with remarkable amounts of individual societal freedom so that you can celebrate Xmas or not, you can turn it into a mad rush of consuemrism or just eat, drink and be merry, or both, or neither. Look at Xmas in Japan or Halloween in France or St Patrick’s Day here in the U.S. When British, say, society revolved essentially around agriculture, it was natural to show off one’s success by eating and drinking intemperately on the holiday intended to assuage the gloom of shorter, colder days. Now that agriculture is no longer the mainstay of the British economy, the consuemrist bacchanal that you have now is ‘normal’. Mind you, I don’t much like it, but I don’t think that makes it odd or unnatural.

Re: Morning Has Broken. It’s a tune, or maybe an air—it’s traditional. “Bunessan”. Gaelic. According to Wikipedia.

The lyrics? I don’t know. Probably not Rabbie Burns. So it’s an old Scottish air/tune that has become a hymn.

And one of my favorites.

For everything. If i ever get married, I want that to be part of the wedding.

Fuck this pagan shit, its almost as bad as the Xtian nonsense. Bludy hippies.

Put your hands up if you’re wishing for an non-religious midwinter overindulgent blowout and will be whingeing about hating New Year’s Eve in a week’s time.

*hands up*

If I can avoid over-drinking on NYE it should go down fine though.

I *LUUURRRRRVVVE* New Years. I’d have it every month if I could.

...but then again, I am just a big Pagan hippie.

i love christmas! and i’m jewish! and i think that’s why—growing up we didn’t have many non-jewish friends and yet i was still in the middle of this insanely xmas-fetishizing culture so i felt like i was pressed up against the glass watching everyone else have fun. i never got to have “bad” xmas experiences so my only associations are holiday specials and pretty lights and all that jazz. xmas rules.

I’m too old for fun new years. it’s sort of amateur night. BUT—they drop something from the top (two stories) of the pub in the middle of my small town at midnight, and I’ve never seen it, and thus don’t know what they drop. So i feel that i should wander down and see it.

The police put barriers up so everyone can gather. i shall report back and let you know what, exactly, falls down for new years. Hopefully not a government. or the baby jesus.

What shall i sing?

Oh, yeah.

Should Auld acquaintance be forgot...and never brought to mind?

There’s my Rabbie Burns!

aimurchie, the tune is a Gaelic air yes, but it didn’t become Morning Has Broken until someone put the words of Morning Has Broken to it. The link I posted (and other googleable references) show that that someone was not Robert Burns (it’s a bit twee for Burns, for a start) but an English woman (Eleanor Farjeon) in 1931.

If i ever get married, I want that to be part of the wedding.

There are wedding songs written to the same tune. I had one at my wedding. (this one, in fact)

My capacity for actually enjoying Christmas ended when I left home. Too many bad memories of my nutjobby Mom at her nutjobbiest. (Sorry, Mom, love you dearly, but you’re a little crazy, and I’m grateful for the distance.)

The only thing I really give a toss about anymore is buying prezzies for Ms. Cat. It’s especially significant this year as we’re still replacing some things of hers that were taken in the robbery.

Oh, and I like egg nog. And Toblerone, which I only really eat around this time of year. The rest of the holiday can take a flying leap.

thanks for the link, Ailsa!

I just ask for socks, Sharpies, unlined Moleskines, and Pilot thin felt-tip pens every year, and I NEVER GET THEM. They are seriously all I want. My family gets me ugly Old Navy ribbed sweaters. My sisters-in-law get me weird ass unwearable crocheted fishnetty socks from Anthropologie. My mom-in-law has caught on tho, and is getting me my true desires except for the socks. Plus some jewelry she stole from upscale shops! Yay!

I have $0.00 so I’m getting people all my favorite sci-fi paperbacks from the used book store, which lets you have a tab of up to $30. I’m painting the boy an awesome triptych about house tools. I also got him a bunch of old Dr. Who young adult novels at the bookstore.

I’m making Archie comics covers for my sisters in law. I’m making my mom-in-law a hagiography about her life, which has been hard and insane. I’m burning warez for my birth family.

I guess that’s what I like about Xmas, it kicks my ass into gear to make fun creative projects. I am proud how the only thing I’ve really had to pay for is shipping.

Every year I get to console my best friend for hours because it reminds her of times w/her schizophrenic mom. She can’t even see stills from Christmas Story w/out tearing up. So, that’s a very bittersweet Xmas tradition for 7 yrs plus now. :{

I love almost all Xmas hymns too. I’ve watched a ton in English & Spanish on the local UHF channels. I like also how all the signs on city streetlights have a big CHILI that says “Feliz Navidad” next to it. Better than the family tradition of going to the Mormon temple visitor’s center every year.

I may be missing the spirit of this thread.

I love when people just sing the first verse of Good King Wenceslas because then it’s just a song about a guy looking out a window.

not that i’m ignoring you, Abbott, but i’m cooking dinner and NEEd a link to “Do they Know It’s Christmas.” because ALL I’m getting is the 20 year sludge.

On the feast of Steven.

Movies for Grinches (comments great):

http://mattzollerseitz.blogspot.com/2006/12/5-for-day-countering-christmas-cheer.html

OK, fuck the link.

Abbott—I wish I had someone like you in my Christmas life! Archie comic presents? Rock on! all of your gifts sound amazing. And well thought out.

I like that Good King Wencelaus was just looking out the window as well.

Nobody has really commented on the three ships. Maybe he was looking for the three ships.

Good King Wenceslaus has derailed the thread.

I am now embracing my inner scrooge and here are the things I fucking hate about Christmas:

the sugarplum fairy music.

And random people wearing random santa hats.

But mostly the sugarplum fairy music. Who died and left the nutcracker fan boss?

Jesus?

OMG I hate Xmas playboy issues bcz it’s just secretaries & wives getting it on with gross, naked Santas & the punchlines are all, “Santa COMES but one a year.” Humiliating.

let’s get back to caroling. And hating/loving Xmas.

Our Alice came up with an extra verse for “We wish you a merry christmas” this morning:

“We get stressed when we go shopping

We get stressed when we go shopping

We get stressed when we go shopping

There’s nothing to get!”

(she swears she wrote it anyway)

That’s the chorus—she’s going to have to struggle with the verse. But well done Alice!

OMG I hate Xmas playboy issues bcz it’s just secretaries & wives getting it on with gross, naked Santas & the punchlines are all, “Santa COMES but one a year.” Humiliating.

hahaha, yes you can only see cartoons of santa getting head so many times . . .

I had a converstion with the Indian/Hindu owner of the liquour store. Last night. About his singing christmas tree.

I said “You know, that would drive me crazy. because i know all of the songs. I’d have to unplug it or something.”

We then had a long converstion about the calendar, and holidays, and birthdays, and I haven’t reached any conclusion except that we’re both in the business of liquor.

IF the singing christmas tree played the sugarplum fairy song, i would probably have unplugged the tree/killed a nice person who wanted, only wanted to buy some cheap beer. Just because.

fortunately, the singing christmas tree plays gentle, soothing carols.

“Away In The Manger”, “Silent Night”, and... “Joy To the World.” But only the first two measures.

It does not, as far as I can tell, sing “Oh Christmas Tree”.

the bar I used to work in had this stupid, maddening tree that would grow a face and start singing when you walked by. I freaking hated that thing.

Soz, can’t fully research right now but I think “Three Ships” is a Renaissance-era-ish thing from when there was a famine in a major city and the ships bearing new supplies arrived right around Christmas...? Sketchy, I know, but I have to go downstairs and play lushly arranged, sort of English-renaissance-y Christmas carols on piano. Vacation, what hey!

I am now hating Christmas too. My family is angry and depressed, and I was really looking forward to cooking exciting things for them but actually they’re really picky and just live off chips and won’t eat anything I make even if it’s really unexciting. It’s just an oppressively unhappy atmosphere, and now that I can’t even try to cook to cheer people up, I’m unhappy too. GREAT.

maria e—surely you can go somewhere and “sing”? Even if it’s the pub? or the bathroom? (Good acoustics!)

Singing doesn’t mean you have to sing carols—if your throat can’t sing maybe your soul can do it for you.

if your family can’t sing, sing for them.

You should make what YOU want to make, and hand it over as a gift. Food included.

or, alternatively, exchange presents and feel weird for years because of the lack of music, for you. IMHO.

Um, let me amend that post. Because it was obnoxious.

I’m getting to be a bit too enthusiastic on the singing part.

Apologies, maria-e.

It sounds horrible to have your kindness rejected. I am sorry that you have to deal with that.

I ended up crying last night because I was so frustrated that everyone else was so unceasingly and contagiously unhappy. Of course, that made it worse, and I feel really, really guilty now. At least everyone is a little calmer today. Only 3 more days to survive!

I don’t know about singing, but playing some happy music (Christmas or not) really couldn’t hurt! So that’s not a bad idea. Thanks.

Does a lot of the trouble that people have with Christmas have to do with not getting on well with their families? I get on really well with mine, and I like exchanging good presents (and I hardly have to do any outside of immediate family), and I love love love the excuse to spend loads of time cooking/eating great food, which makes the whole thing pretty great.

Also, I guess I somehow miss out on this relentless commercialism. Where does it manifest itself? TV? High street shops? I guess I hardly encounter either of these, which is maybe why I don’t really notice it.

Dammit why is not Tom Lehrer’s “A Christmas Carol” on youtube?

—-

Relations, sparing no expense,‘ll

Send some useless old utensil —

Or a matching pen and pencil!

“Just the thing I need, how nice!”

It doesn’t matter how sincere it

Is, nor how heartfelt the spirit,

Sentiment will not endear it,

What’s important is the price.

—

I wuvs Tom.

Toby as alluded upthread (somewhere) it may often be not so much a case of not getting on with the family but just experiences with relatives being duller or more boring than perhaps they ought to be (more awkwardness/sense of inadequacy than hostility).

for me, it is definitely a case of...well, not so much me not getting on with my family, but certain members of the family not getting on so that the whole house becomes tense and sad. happens every christmas. and i think the expectations for getting along and being happy are higher at christmas than at other times, which makes it worse. commercialism is not a big problem, i think.

Are there any contract killers available who would like to come round and murder my parents for me? I’m that fucking pissed off right now.

Oh, how I fucking loathe most of my family. Grrrrargh.

It’s 9am and I’m already the sous-chef.

count yourself lucky... i’ve been cheffing for four days already.

my favorite christmas carols:

children go where i send thee*

somerset wassail

friendly beasts

while shepherds watched their flocks

*mostly cuz I get to scream ‘children go where i send thee!’ every refrain.

i dislike:

frosty, rudolph, jingle bells, all that standard crap.

i’m beginning to hate xmas due to the fact that i traveled 800 miles to get into family arguments that i could have very well had on the phone. but this one involved more screaming, hysteria and tears. yay, christmas!

Here it is. I spend Boxing Day with my neighbours every year since time began and my mom is trying to make me babysit my cousins instead. NO they cannot come to the BD party as both have colds and best friend is newly preggers but in reality NO FUCKING WAY I HAVE JUST SPENT TWO DAYS WITH THESE PEOPLE AND I WANT TO USE WORDS OF MORE THAN TWO SYLLABLES AND NOT HAVE TO HEAR ABOUT HOW IMMIGRANTS ARE RUINING AMERICA FROM THE GRANDCHILDREN OF IMMIGRANTS.

after the really disturbing display of hysterics by other members of the fams, we’re all now sitting around awkwardly, not really talking and avoiding eye contact, while my ancient grandmother complains about teh chicken livers. 2 1/2 more days. i think i can make it.

I’m watching the national spelling bee on ESPN—which is providing all of the pain and pathos of the holidays for me.

Otherwise I ate a lot of food and saw my nieces and nephew, so it’s all good.

Nothing too horrible/crazy happened this year—much to everyone’s surprise.

We’re old, and I can concentrate on the kids!

I’, going to start a spelling bee thread.

i got insulted by my drunk mother in law this year. i wanted to shove a mutton rib down her throat. maybe im starting to not like christmas.

i got insulted by my sober mother more times than i can count this year. xmas = not so fun. can’t this shit just be phoned in?

Parents always call you stupid when it suits them and it never has anything to do with reality, so chin-up. Still sucks, but next time she hits you with it feel free to point out that nothing is more stupid than a mother who insults her own children.

you guys need to put some more rum in your eggnog and turn up the Slade.

It sure as hell can’t make it any worse, is all I’m saying.

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