I want to talk about the Wire on ILX.

Actually I don’t cause I haven’t seen it yet, but it’s on the old queue.

what about talking about the wire on bet?

Semantics. My enemy.

I’m still feeling crushed about Bodie...so,I want to talk about The Wire. HBO’s The Wire.

How was it not Michael? He bum rushed Bodie from the shadows and put a bullet right in his head. Then he shot him again. What are you reading that makes you think differently?

It made me sad too but you could see it coming almost the whole season, which made it a little easier to take. The way Michael and Cutty finally fell out, really fell out, was a come-from-nowhere punch in the gut for me, I had nightmares about that. So horrible.

saw the finale last week on demand but watched it again last night.. still devastating. plus was just watching s3 again after catching up on all the back story and it really messed me up that they killed stringer bell. same last words w/bodie—‘get on with it, motherfuckers’

so many hilarious scenes with bodie, too—d’angelo teaching him + poot about the game of chess, the co-op meetings following robert’s rules of order, running into herc + carver at the movie theater..

We did see Chris saying naw, he didn’t want the pup’s first job to be someone he knew. I think the last scene was supposed to be Michael’s initiation killing.

I think Michael was just kind of hanging around, because he was running with those guys. He wasn’t in the inital firefight so I doubt he was even really supposed to be part of it. But when Bodie held his ground so well Michael took matters into his own hands. He has really turned into one cold-blooded MF

The way the whole season’s pacing dragged and then sped up, with so much plot development in the last episode (and even in the final montage), was jarring. Scene after leisurely scene of subtle interpersonal dynamics in the earlier episodes was kind of mooted by the rapid denouements.

xpost Really? that seems like a lot of interpolation but I’ll look at the scene again I guess.

yeah the finale kinda left a bad taste in my mouth, a few great scenes (including Bodie’s death) aside, mainly because of those speedy unsatisfactory denouements. and also the terrible LIFE IS A CHESS GAME, IT’S A METAPHOR, GET IT? shit from season 1 coming back. and Bodie kicking in a cop car window because he was mad at Marlo made absolutely no sense, total plot contrivance. still a great season, though.

I don’t think that was Michael that shot Bodie. though the kicking in the window sort of did make sense, he punches a cop in the first season just out of the blue, pretty much

yeah, there are weird contrivances.. sometimes I watch again and things make more sense, sometimes not, though, like back in s3 where avon asks stringer where he’s going to be the next day, for no reason. why wouldn’t he figure out he was being set up—and he looks like he does realize something is about to happen. for that matter in s2 why would omar believe what stringer said about brother mouzone? that’s just stupid

This season was by far the most heartbreaking, because it was the kids who got so fucked. Bodie getting killed was horrible, and then seeing Dookie on the corner... And poor Randy...

Plus, Bubbles subplot, though heavily telegraphed, was also tragic.

Ugh. Anyone else think that McNulty will disintegrate next season? Does anyone get a happy ending?

mcnulty? everything he touches turns to shit. I feel like the writers love the guy, and I’m sick of him, been sick of him since the first season, I think. why’d they claim to have run out of story for the stringer bell character & yet still have more to say about this guy is beyond me

mcnulty = total douche

I think Michael was just kind of hanging around, because he was running with those guys. He wasn’t in the inital firefight so I doubt he was even really supposed to be part of it. But when Bodie held his ground so well Michael took matters into his own hands. He has really turned into one cold-blooded MF

This is how I read it. I mean, Michael shot him. You could see his face.

Anyone else think that McNulty will disintegrate next season?

I really hope not. He’s doing so well! Why do I care so much?

and Bodie kicking in a cop car window because he was mad at Marlo made absolutely no sense

That scene was outstanding!

The worst thing was that everyone who decided they were going to make an active effort to help someone from the projects — McNutty, Prez, the foster mom, Cutty, Bubbles, Carver, the special teaching group, Carcetti — ended up disappointed, dejected, demoralized, or worse. Bunny and Namond is a momentary bit of hope, but we’ll see if that lasts.

The show needs to finish with SOME success stories, because while the negative stuff is true to life, good things actually do happen, even in Baltimore.

“O-Dog, one of Snoop and Chris’s trainees—who creeps up to Bodie and shoots him in the head. Bodie falls to the ground and is finished with a second shot to the head. He lays there dead, as O-Dog jogs off to join his mentors.”

That’s from the website. Michael couldn’t kill Bodie because the first killing is supposed to be someone you don’t know.

And then Michael does his first killing.

I miss Bodie. He could spit like no other.

Bubbles hanging himself and then being embraced by STEVE EARL!? So fucking classic.

Omar re-selling the stash at 20 cents on the dollar—fucking classic. But now I suspect he will die, and that’s gonna hurt worse than Bodie. Nothing hurts worse than Wallace.

So.. where are they going next? I have loved every season, and I guess I’m trying to revive the “The Wire” threads of yore. What’s next?

My S.O. says it’s the media. So—from corners and poh-leese to the docks to the schools—maybe media is the next step.

I miss Wallace.I miss Bodie.

This sounds like the most depressing unfun show ever.

unfun? the funny moments are very, very, very funny, and there are plenty of those. the drug dealer co-op meetings using robert’s rules of order, for instance! “is you taking notes on a CRIMINAL FUCKING CONSPIRACY?” and I mean, it’s not depressing because there’s so much life in all the characters, but then, a lot of the most compelling ones end up getting killed, and that’s sad. I don’t usually get caught up in things but this show has got me like.. like the russian novels I used to read

xpost

yeah I heard that too about season five—the national media are coming in already over the bodies in those vacants so I suppose that’s where it starts. I miss wallace and d’angelo. d’angelo was so smart, you know, i also don’t quite get why he wouldn’t know better than to be that outwardly defiant to avon.. but most of all I miss stringer, which is messed up considering he was the one who had them both killed. he’s just way too good looking I guess.

It’s depressing, but it’s not unfun at all actually.

there are so many hilarious lines in this show, for real, you have to see it

method man in the last ep or so—“shit was unseemly!”

re: shooting the hat off omar’s grandmother—“it’s hard to get good help.”

all the co-op meetings are funny as hell

prop joe—“for a cold-ass crew of gangsters, y’all carried it like Republicans an’ shit.”

“the chair didn’t recognize your ass”

poot—“does the chair recognize that we are going to look like some punk ass bitches out there?”

(xpost—The Wire is one of the funniest dramas on television. especially since they get to swear and don’t have to blunt the blue humor inherent to most crime dramas. Bunk, Herk, Omar, Landsman, those guys are all hilarious.)

I don’t think that was Michael that shot Bodie. though the kicking in the window sort of did make sense, he punches a cop in the first season just out of the blue, pretty much

well, yeah, Bodie is a hothead, they’ve been consistent about that. but it seems to me that there’s a big difference between punching a cop when you’re about to be arrested anyway, and kicking a cop car in front of dozens of police, especially in an episode that’s meant to underline how Bodie was a smart guy who understood the game and never fucked up for any old reason. it just seemed like a very roundabout way to put him in McNulty’s sights, when there are any number of other more logical/legit reasons he could’ve been arrested.

mcnulty? everything he touches turns to shit. I feel like the writers love the guy, and I’m sick of him, been sick of him since the first season, I think. why’d they claim to have run out of story for the stringer bell character & yet still have more to say about this guy is beyond me

I kind of feel you on that, although the fact that McNulty was pretty much benched and barely present for most of Season 4 makes me think they don’t love him/writing him that much (especially w/ Simon stating emphatically that The Wire is not a cop show all the time and McNulty being the most traditional cop show element in it, they might be kind of embarrassed about him initially being the central character and want to downplay him).

The WIRE is funny as fuck!

“They got Honeynut Cheerios?”

“I can’t WAIT to go to jail!”

“Got to, this is America.”

it’s actually one of the MOST fun shows on television, believe it or not!

McNutty needs to return so he can...be poh-leese again. I’m not interested in his narrative thread, but it seems like, for the final season, they have to reunite the team.

Going after Marlo will be a very fucking interesting proposition.

I have a bad feeling that Omar is going to die.

The HBO website is much better than I expected—great interviews and a really comprehensive cast/character list.

I miss Bodie.

plus every scene with landsman, pretty much. he’s so gross and just doesn’t mind. wikipedia says the real-life jay landsman is in the cast playing dennis mello, and everything he says is pretty damn funny as well

and never fucked up for any old reason.

Yeah, but Bodie believes in the code of the street, and Marlo doesn’t. Marlo is killing dudes, and Bodie YEARNS for retribution. But he can’t do it, because he’ll end up vanished. It makes total sense to me. I mean, the McNutty part seems completely arbitrary to me.

I’m mad that Bodie’s dead, but I don’t know that I miss him since he wasn’t really used that prominently this season.

I apologize for this shameless plug, but it bears mentioning that I’ve posted a lot of the music featured in this season on my blog:

http://governmentnames.blogspot.com/

I don’t like McNulty much (I don’t like most of the cops other than Carver and Freamon) but I find his arc pretty interesting actually. I’m curious what they’ll do with his character next season.

yeah, I kind of like the point that they started making really explicitly about McNulty this season, which is that the fucked up thing about that line of work is that sometimes being a good cop and being a good father/husband/person are mutually exclusive (or maybe that that’s just the case for McNulty, because he’s a dysfunctional asshole).

i also don’t quite get why he wouldn’t know better than to be that outwardly defiant to avon

I never got that either. It’s like he was making a point out of it.

oh, that’s your blog! i like it.

mcnulty is such an asshole. maybe it works, I don’t know, thinking back on it all these cop show cliches end up turning out badly or are just faintly riduculous, like his fixation on stringer

Ok I’m over my Bodie mourning. Sort of.

The scene where Chris and Snoop are on the corner, outside of a convenience store, and turn to see their next victim is easily the most scary scene ever.

That beating is the worst. because there is a code, I guess, for all of the killings.

Chris just goes off and even Snoop is amazed and has to walk away. the sexual violence part is unsaid—but it’s clear Michael was violated, and that Chris was violated as well.

The killing of Bug’s father.

Bodie was pissed off because he saw Little Kevin taken out of the masoleums. Bodie knew he had sent his friend to death. That’s why he erupted. everyone is dying for being a snitch, in Marlo’s world. But sometimes being a snitch means uttering one sentence in the wrong place.

Omar is the only sane character. Which means he is going to die.

I love Omar!

eh, I don’t love Omar, he has charisma and all, but I was just watching the ep where Bunk gives him a talking to for living off the drug trade & what’s happened to the community where they grew up. it’s funny though, the fact that Omar has a code is an admirable thing about the character, I suppose, but it’s like.. I’m a little weary of the revenge story lines around him. it makes him predictable. I guess that’s the way the writers think the world goes and maybe they are more right than not, but again.. here’s why I’m bummed out that stringer had to go, because at least his way of seeing things was (sometimes) more strategic, there’s a big picture that’s more important than making sure you pay everybody back

Nobody wins!

David Simon talks about season 5.

as sad as i am about bodie, he had it coming. randy’s foster mom, though? beyond fucked up. the prez-teacher storyline was so heartbreaking that i’m surpressing it.

randy’s foster mom—yes—that was based on a real story wasn’t it? except the real story was worse

seems sorta based on the murder of Angela Dawson, her husband and five children by firebomb, but i don’t think that’s the only instance, just the most high-profile one.

i was gonna guess that season 5 would focus on prison but that simon interview says it’s the media (and marlo and the greeks according to season 4). i have a feeling mcnulty will be brought back but i hope not, he’s been done to death. bunk is so much greater.

wire on bet, sopranos on.. a&e i think? january is going to kick ass

so was the rumor true about episode 10 having an extra scene that the leaked critic’s preview version didn’t have? something about chris & snoop’s relationship?

MICHAEL SHOT BODIE.

Chris’ point was, that’s not how it’s supposed to be, but oh well, times ain’t what they used to be.

gahhhh, it was *not* michael who shot bodie!

from the hbo.com recap:

Unable to convince Bodie to flee, Poot finally runs for cover, passing a young hooded boy—O-Dog, one of Snoop and Chris’s trainees—who creeps up to Bodie and shoots him in the head.

Chris and Snoop? That’s got to be a rumour.

May I repeat that: Michael’s nemesis/Bug’s dad purchasing some cigarettes and leaving the store only to be confronted by Chris and Snoop is -IS—the scariest thing ever.

Chris and Snoop are just amazingly scary. Andre begging to not be put in the vacants -OMFG.

I have to watch season three. And see Stringer Bell get shot down.

Freamon is wearing a wedding ring. When did he get married? Season three?

I’m sort of a loser when it comes right down to it—I didn’t watch season three, but I’m gonna make up for it.

I still miss Bodie, even ‘though he shot Wallace.

“Freamon is wearing a wedding ring. When did he get married? Season three?”

After Season 1, I think. He marries a stripper who worked at the Barksdale club IIRC.

is it true that season 5 isn’t until 2008?

that would make sense. they haven’t started shooting yet.

xxxpost—i meant like their working relationship or shared past, not romantic involvement

i think filming begins march 07

Have we discussed just how much damage Herc did this season? That no one, including him, will ever know about?

Randy and his foster mom are on Herc. Sherrod’s on Herc. Bubbs is still breathing, but he’s on Herc too. Dude sold a lot of people out this season.

Oh, and add Carver to that list as well. His Impotent Rage Tantrum in the car after dropping Randy at the group home should have been de trop, but it worked.

Actually, some of the Sherrod/Bubs bullshit is on that one detective who refused to pass the message along to Bunk because Bunk was messing with his case. But yeah, fuck Herc.

the point seems to be: no one in the bpd is gonna teach you how not to be a retard.

cause herc, disposition wise, not actually a bad guy—just a dumb-ass w/bad habits.

Herc? no sense of relationships I guess, thinking he could treat bubs like garbage and it wouldn’t come back on him.

xpost—totally got distracted for a while there—2008 is what I read for the next season as well. such a long time! :(

also, I knew the outcome of season three before I saw the whole thing but it still kicked me in the gut. the actors are so great—partic idris elba—otherwise.. considering all the stuff he did.. bell getting shot down wouldn’t be as utterly tragic as it is. the last few scenes are just amazingly well played, from when bell meets colvin in the cemetery—that’s what happens to reformers—and when he’s reminiscing with avon. by then it’s too late for things to go any other way, and you can see in his eyes that on a level, he accepts that.

I’m rarely sentimental and all, but it’s powerful stuff

also, re: Herc, does McNulty do even more damage, regularly, or am I bonkers?

Hmmm...well, they don’t seem to highlight it so much, at least. Examples?

That “O-Dog” shit is driving me nuts. At the time I was sure it was Michael, but re-watching it just now I realize that you barely see the shooter’s face in a couple of quick, dimly lit shots, and though it looks like it could be Michael, it’s really hard to be sure. But the way Chris and Snoop looked up in what looked like surprise seemed appropriate if it was Michael. It’s such a bizarre ambiguity, I didn’t even know Chris and Snoop had any other trainees besides Michael, but then suddenly in a key scene there’s another one, who’s only ever referred to by name in an episode synopsis on the website? Big WTF there. I guess O-Dog is the light-skinned kid in this picture?

http://www.hbo.com/thewire/img/episodeguide/season04/ep49_crew.jpg

yeah what the hell. i just re-watched it and they do have that scene where chris says his first one’s gotta be someone he doesn’t know and marlo nods. then later they go to his apartment and give him bodie’s corner and his first hit assignment

Randy and his foster mom are on Herc. Sherrod’s on Herc. Bubbs is still breathing, but he’s on Herc too. Dude sold a lot of people out this season.

But it’s not just that it’s on Herc. It’s specifically on Herc because he randomly saw the mayor receive a blowjob. Otherwise Herc isn’t promoted too quickly to Sgt., and doesn’t completely effect a toll on the lives of the people he “serves.”

And on the flip side, Carcetti is mayor because someone in the projects got hit by a stray bullet; otherwise Royce wins the election.

I think we need a FAP in Baltimore.

i really don’t think i can wait a whole year.

What alternative do you propose? Fanfic? Landsman/Prop Joe slash, perhaps?

Landsman/Prop Joe slash, perhaps?

I’m writing this already and the working title is The Wide.

Joe had been very happy with Jay in his life for many months. But all that changed when Tom “Horseface” Pakusa entered his life...

really if any Wire character was begging for gay fanfic, though, it’s Bunk. there were 2 unrelated scenes of Bunk joking that fellow officers were his gay lovers in the first episode of this season.

alternate title: Big Ballin’

Yeah Al, it’s definitely a little “doth protest too much” with that guy, he keeps it up even after the people he’s ribbing have walked away, like he’s talking to himself

http://www.cnn.com/2006/SHOWBIZ/Movies/12/12/people.pinkettsmith.ap/

yeah, Bunk takes that a bit too far

“The Pursuit of Happyness” ?

haha, from imdb:

The word “Happyness” in the title has been intentionally misspelled. This is significant to the film’s plot. When Smith’s character sees a teacher at his son’s daycare center writing the word ... “Happyness” on the outside of the building, he tells the teacher that the children misspelled happiness ... The teacher notes it is not important whether or not happiness is spelled correctly, but if the children have it. These words motivate Christopher Gardner to lead a happier life for his son.

——————————————————————————-

It’s not important whether or not “happiness” is spelled correctly?! Nonsense like this explains why we’re raising a generation of children in America who can’t read, write or speak decent English. No wonder this country is going to Hell in a handbasket.

yeah, although all of Bunk’s talk about the plural form of “pussy” (“pussah”?) is pretty funny too. which reminds me, when Bunk says “I’m thinkin’ about pussy” and Snoop says “me too,” is that the first/only explicit reference the show has made to her sexual orientation?

(xpost I saw that about Jada in the news this morning. my office is right around the corner from that school! i wonder if there’s any ‘Pac was here’ type landmarks.)

I don’t think there was any reference earlier re: Snoop. that was damn funny though. she’s been great all season. I’m kind of amused by reading these reviews who are like “that girl is so scary, she just mumbles all the time” and I’m like.. really? she’s not hard to understand if you listen carefully. I feel like Prezbo listening to the wiretaps—oh, she’s saying “where’s your Yankee pride at now motherf***er”

I’ve spent too many hours of my life transcribing interviews with folks who have thick Baltimore accents to have an objective p.o.v. but yeah she’s not hard to understand at all.

I’m thinking it’ll be Prop Joe that gets killed next season. one expects it’d be by Marlo so that probably means it’ll be more complicated than that. I won’t feel bad about it, though he is an interesting character.

After reading the Simon interview in Slate, I wonder if we’ll actually learn some things about Marlo next season. The show does a good job of humanizing the “bad” guys, and I’d love to learn more about that dude. Avon Barksdale seemed like a bogeyman at first, and by the end he he somehow seemed more moral than Stringer. But I loved all the stuff about Barksdale and the west-east basketball game, etc.

yeah, maybe I need to re-watch Season 3 but it seems like very little is known (to the viewer) about Marlo, compared to early on when you were shown a lot about Avon even as the cops were coming up completely empty on any paper trail or specific information on him.

i’d hate to see Prop Joe die, but I’m kinda surprised he made it out of this season alive, considering all the double and triple crosses he sneaked past people, which were kinda Stringer’s downfall.

avon = moral in the sense that he lives by some kind of code. the same way omar is moral, I suppose, or brother mouzone. this assuming the code/rules are worth respecting. I don’t believe that they are, but clearly the writers believe bad things always happen to people who think they’re above them, it’s no wonder david simon talks about greek tragedy.

so, maybe the double crosses are another reason why prop joe is highly likely to get killed? unlike stringer, prop joe is not super ambitious & doesn’t want to own the entire city, in his own name—and that’s so key to what happened last season. hubris. when avon gets paroled & stringer gives him the keys to that beautiful place overlooking the harbor, says they’re making so much legitimate money they can have this stuff in the open and in their own names. that seems to matter nothing to avon—he recalls way back in the past when stringer was into “that black pride bullshit” and wanted to own stores & stringer gives him a look and says something about avon being out looking to get an ak-47 and start warring.

I watched season three very recently—sort of fast forwarded through parts and have to go back and pay closer attention to all the scenes at police HQ and with Carcetti—they don’t tell you a lot about marlo. Stringer tries to talk sense to him about the history of the drug trade in baltimore & what happened to all those guys, and what’s interesting is his angle that basically.. the government wants them all out there fighting over scraps and killing each other, so why do it. marlo leaves the meeting and immediately orders chris to go arm their people. I don’t know if it’s this season or last where another character tries once again to tell marlo what’s happened to all the guys who wore the crown (most of them dead) and marlo’s response is, now it’s my turn.

so, the wire being what it is, leads me to think avon and marlo end up in jail for a long, long time even though they both want to go out like stringer did, and it’s stringer and prop joe who get killed because neither of them wanted that.

man, I thought I was over this analytical stuff when I quit grad school! oh well.

needed a worthy text

yeah, you might be right about that. I guess only Season 5 will reveal what the ‘final’ fates of those characters are, but I get the feeling that, even though The Wire is very anti- the war on drugs, they also don’t want to shy away from the reality that most of the people in the game end up dead, in jail, or at best down at the bottom rung of the system getting fucked over by middle management. or at least, I hope that’s the message they’ll send if only to alienate all the crack rap nerds who have latched onto The Wire as just another way to get their vicarious boners from any kind of storytelling that can be seen as glorifying drug dealing.

guess I could’ve switched to the media studies dept and written a thesis on the wire, tragedy, and why stringer bell & a few other characters (d’angelo) sort of got away from what the writers set out to do with political messages because tragedy is fundamentally apolitical—I guess that’s why that storyline had to end before the series did, it would’ve continued to overshadow whatever they wanted to say about civic institutions.

for instance, what was the truly unpardonable thing about d’angelo’s death? that it was ordered or the way it was done? googling on some theory books I used to read.. “in tragic depiction, the act of hanging was given special significance as an unmanly sort of suicide..”

Can someone point out a rap song that references The Wire? I have been waiting for it to happen, but so far I haven’t noticed any.

I almost wrote my honor’s thesis on the Corey Haim film Lucas but then I ran out of pot.

its funny you mention that b/c i was srsly thinking about writing a paper on the wire & foucault/agamben’s conceptions of “sovereignty” esp. w/r/t the dealers—“make die & let live”—vs. teh govt—“make live & let die” and hampsterdam as physical state of exception... and then... i didnt.

speaking of tragedy have you seen the interview w/ simon where he describes deadwood & the sopranos as shakespearean and the wire as greek tragedy (w/ the “institutions” as the gods)? might make for an interesting paper.

xpost michael there’s a track on clipse’s “got it 4 cheap vol 2” where malice says something abt avon and marlo warring, i cant remember which one it is

for instance, what was the truly unpardonable thing about d’angelo’s death?

It was an abuse of power and position, ordered not because D broke the rules of the game, but because Stringer was banging D’s girl.

No, ordered because D might’ve turned on them, I thought? And this assessment wasn’t wrong, after all. I thought he was only with donette to get information on d’angelo, and brianna. but I just wondered if there was something exceptionally shameful, so to speak, about a suicide, and thus exceptionally wrong about causing d’s family to believe it was a suicide, you know?

xpost

oh, I love agamben. haven’t read in a couple years unfortunately.

that’s exactly the simon interview I read, yes. the thing is, it’s an interesting jumping-off point, if I were going to do serious academic work I’d start there, but that doesn’t mean I believe he’s right—for one, my sense is there’s something about institutions playing that role in the domain of tragedy that.. hmm. maybe they do. and that’s why it can seem so fatalistic. a meditation but not political in the sense that they’re pushing to change these things, they’re past believing that’s possible and every character that tries gets shot down somehow.

I wouldn’t call Deadwood Shakespearean, other than the fanciful language. Deadwood actually has pretty similar themes to The Wire—helplessness in the face of progress/capitalism, the definition of community... The Sopranos has a more Shakespearean flavor.

Marlo and his crew represent a new breed of gangster that don’t care about honor, don’t care about family, that don’t have any MYTHOLOGY for themselves beyond making money and being the toughest. There is just simply nothing beyond that.

michael there’s a track on clipse’s “got it 4 cheap vol 2”

there are even more refs on volume 1, inc. wire outro music

hey do you guys think they’ll explain rawls’ gay bar denouement in season 5 or was that meant to be more like an easter egg?

Easter egg. I hope.

ordered because D might’ve turned on them, I thought?

But if that was all there was to it, Stringer might’ve, hmm, mentioned it to someone. True, D might’ve turned. But he hadn’t. My read was that this was merely the pretext. It’s been a while though.

You know what I did totally miss this season? Is Meth secretly Randy’s dad and I’m the only one who didn’t know this?

http://www.hbo.com/thewire/cast/characters/cheese.shtml

huh weird. that must come up at some point next season:

Randy Wagstaff—Having lost his mother to the streets at a young age and having never known his father, reputedly an eastside corner boy who later became a major drug trafficker..

out of the two, Chris is more interesting than Marlo—smarter. I wonder where this goes next season. of course, you could argue stringer didn’t care about honor/family/rules either, but he had a vision.. marlo? doesn’t see anything beyond the game does he? I wonder if he’s still losing at poker.

But if that was all there was to it, Stringer might’ve, hmm, mentioned it to someone

Maybe. don’t know. was kind of a catch-22, avon wouldn’t do anything to d, but d was cutting himself off from avon and wanted out—like stringer’s view of the situation was correct but there was nothing to prove it as d hadn’t officially flipped yet. I haven’t seen the s2 episodes in question yet.. and d did give a fair amount of information to the police initially, that’s how wee-bey got caught in philly.

i didn’t know cheese was prop joe’s nephew!

Operation: WAGSTAFF

Yeah I noticed at the beginning of the season that Cheese and Randy had the same last name and when Cheese showed up in the last couple episodes I thought they might make the connection explicit, but yeah, no dice. Prop Joe is so grandfatherly that I kind of wish Randy had somehow ended up in his custody.

Can someone point out a rap song that references The Wire? I have been waiting for it to happen, but so far I haven’t noticed any.

There are some references that have been made my mainstream rappers (and a ton of cameos by Wire cast members in rap videos), but most of the lyrical references I’ve heard have been by underground Baltimore rappers (my personal favorite being Profound comparing himself to Frank Sabotka).

no B & B Enterprises t-shirt?

Out: Crazy “Deadwood” fans / In: Crazy “The Wire” fans

thinking about season 4, it’s interesting how they’re still following pretty worn narrative arcs, but they do it with enough detail and subtlety that they don’t usually register as cliches. like the way all of 4 of the boys had at least one of the established characters try to adopt them to one degree or another: prez with dukie, cutty with michael, carver with randy and bunny with namond. and each of the 4 strands ends up somewhere different. very diagrammatic, but it doesn’t feel like it because the characters are all well drawn and played and none of the outcomes seems implausible (although it’s sad that the most positive outcome — namond’s — seems the least likely).

whoever said herc fucked up more than anyone will realize is totally otm.

It took a lot of scrolling through that In/Out list to find that particular reference.

Yes Herc fucked up—driving the narrative forward and all that. He’s easy to hate.

But that’s sort of the point—rather than delivering an easy plotline with clearly delineated characters, “The Wire” makes you question the idea of “watching”.

I think.

I’m not a media scholar,but i think that the whole point of the show IS to create questions that are not answered simply. or simply answered.

That’s probably about 100 xposts—and everyone else articulates it better than I do.

More importantly—do we have to move this thread, or what?

I’m sticking to my corner/sandbox. Unless someone tells me not to.

Don’t forget Bubbles’ boy, tipsy.

so—i’m commissioning an artist friend of mine to do up (depending on cost) maybe 12 Victorian-style portraits of characters from the wire.

having a hell of a time narrowing down the list.

STRING

imo the 12 would have to be: mcnulty, bunk, omar, stringer, avon, frank sabotka, kima, lester, carcetti, d’angelo, snoop, daniels

maybe swap one of those out for marlo

that’s a good list. fuck marlo, though.

to be clear i was suggesting 12 portraits of Stringer.

i would sub out daniels for bodie maybe

you can’t do this w/o bodie

maybe sub out lester or carcetti for bubbs. SOPHIE’S CHOICE.

hahah I was just gonna suggest taking out carcetti for bubbles

oh i totally meant to put bubbles and bodie in there and spaced. obviously this is harder than i was pretending it was.

can you afford to commission 15 portraits y/n?

15 portraits of string, i mean.

fuck it, i’m taking out stringer and avon and putting in ziggy and steve earle

ziggy is not a terrible choice and also suggest ban

i am always defending ziggy in wire threads but i mean as a ‘one of 12 faces to represent the show’ choice he’s definitely not a factor

i guess marlo should really be in there but then you’d have his horrible dead eyes staring at you all the time.

gimme one w/ n’amon w/ his fro blown out

thinking a portrait of brother mouzone w/ lamar behind him holding copies of harper’s and the nation

i would totes commission a victorian portrait of brother mouzone w/ lamar behind him holding a copy of SPIN’s “rap is having its DIY moment” issue

ugh how does some dude not want bubbles in there. though given his taste in tv he;d probably request a 13th of childish gambino

bubbles face looked super fake a lot of the time on the show imo

ugh how does some dude not want bubbles in there. though given his taste in tv he;d probably request a 13th of childish gambino

― regional pug (dealwithit.gif), Sunday, December 4, 2011 11:43 PM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark Permalink

he said he forgot bubbles and bodie!

i don’t know what fake means. they did a lot of makeup stuff with andre royo’s face in the first four seasons to make him look like an addict. bubbs is v handsome in season 5 though.

the make up was kinda weak some of the time

oh i see

idk i’m being a dick for no reason, carry on

but bubbles wouldn’t be in my 12

imo the 12 would have to be: mcnulty, bunk, omar, stringer, avon, frank sabotka, kima, lester, carcetti, d’angelo, snoop, daniels

― i already regret not just being ‘some dude’ again (Mr. Stevenson #2), Sunday, December 4, 2011 10:02 PM (1 hour ago)

get rid of kima and daniels and add bubbs and bodie

there’s so many fucking good characters on this show

holy shit guys.

my list:

Omar, Bubbles, Marlow, Bodie, Avon & Barksdale (possibly sharing a larger portrait), Rawls, Daniels, Kima, McNulty & Bunk (if we’re putting Avon & Barks together might as well pair these two i guess) and Carcetti.

that’s 12 people and 10 paintings.

others i’m considering based on how much money and wall space i have left (in order): Lester, another shared portrait with Snoop & Chris, Bunny, Slim Charles, Prop Joe, D’Angelo, Herc, Pearlman, Carver and Valchek believe it or not.

oh man, slim

that should be Avon and Stringer there. brain fart.

stringer is such a more interesting character than avon that it’d be insulting for him to have to share a portrait w/ avon

i’m so rewatching this over winter break, fuck it

i am doing that as i type.

there are many hours to rewatch!

i loved the duality of Avon & String in season 3—i’m 100x more committed to keeping them together than Bunk & McNutty.

xpost I HAVE 60 TELEVISIONS GOING AT ONCE, EACH PLAYING A DIFFERENT EPISODE

well get on with it then motherfuckers

^^ saddest moment of 21st-century tv

twice!

well get on with it then motherfuckers

― dr. strongo, Monday, December 5, 2011 1:24 AM (31 minutes ago) Bookmark Permalink

^^ saddest moment of 21st-century tv

― dr. strongo, Monday, December 5, 2011 1:25 AM (31 minutes ago) Bookmark Permalink

seriously think about this scene like once a week

can we rank our top 5 saddest deaths?

1 wallace

2 string

3 prop joe

4 bodie

5 snoop

easily the saddest part of the whole show is when the one kid becomes a heroin addict

:( i hate this fucking show

xp that would be dook, noob

horseshoe indulge me plz

forget about sobotka

dude like....idk i feel like he is essential for some reason even tho i never really personally connected with him

i think i’ll like him more the second time thru tho

ziggy still worst ever

hard to rank the deaths because wallace and to some extent d’angelo getting killed were shocks to me and then i was like, oh this is how this show works all the characters i love are going to die, so i was more prepared. having said that, stringer’s death is the saddest to me even though it’s a different kind of sad than basically everything that happens to the season 4 kids. also for some reason i’ve seen season 2 a lot recently and frank and ziggy really get to me. honestly every five minutes something gutwrenching happens on this accursed show.

i love the actor who plays frank sobotka’s sad scared defiant face so much.

yeah i mean i feel like wallace is the most “NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO” and the rest are more like “ok i expected that but still”

stringer’s hit me hard

ziggy still worst ever

― k3vin k., Monday, December 5, 2011 1:15 AM (4 minutes ago) Bookmark

seriously this is no joke one of the worst characters i’ve ever seen — when he goes off the rails and murders ppl for no reason it seemed so unearned

he really reminded me of bad sopranos characters that showed up for like one or two episodes... except for an entire season

even though i love the show and the actors and the writing and all the characters except marlo and i totally knew he was going to die, when they killed stringer i was like I’M NEVER WATCHING THIS STUPID SHOW AGAIN.

horseshoe otm

you guys are wrong about ziggy but i am too lazy to recreate my many ilx defenses of him.

in defense of ziggy:

- huge penis

lol

ok should we even rank wire characters on a wkiw basis or would that be too personal

xp lol DOES NOT COUNT

i mean i we’re being that superficial nicky’s girlfriend’s boobs gotta be in the convo

if*

hmmmmm...

i don’t think we re

#1 wkiw wire character is bodie, and this conversation is now over

*adds Ziggy’s dong to portrait list*

I MEAN COME ON xxp

also: Bodie’s death hit me hardest.

also: wtf does wkiw stand for?!

i don’t think we re

#1 wkiw wire character is bodie, and this conversation is now over

― v-shasty, Monday, December 5, 2011 2:31 AM (14 seconds ago)

yah i agree w/ this, tbh feel like ive chilled w/ dudes pretty similar to dude tbh

xo “would kick it with”

ha ha. i see.

Lester all the way.

namond should be a portrait cuz otherwise who represents all the time spent w/ those kids

i think duquan should be the representative kid

yeah i feel bad but i mean of all the eras abt which im sppt to fld bad abt...

could put a few in one. i was considering it; but i never got as into the kids as much as a lot of you guys.

dude like yeah, either namond, michael, or duke are reasonable choices, but given hov’s outside career, cmon

think bunny deserves it too tbh

but then i Don’t Really Care About Omar so obviously i can’t be trusted

you should have one room that’s whatever pantheon you settle on and then another room that’s just ziggy, scott templeton, the evil jewish lawyer, and brother mouzone, all lit harshly from overhead

why not have some lighter, maybe oil-pastel eccentric pairings, like amy ryan w/rhonda perlman, method man w/clay davis, &c

saddest that prop joe didn’t make it, even though it was inevitable.

prop joe def needs a portrait

I’ve forgotten how prop joe expires, think that will make for a good surprise on re-watching

bodie’s death is a dark horse for me for most affecting death, he reminds me of kids I used to hang out with as a kid, RIP bodie ;_;

(just finished the fifth series, halfway through the main ILX thread before it went away)

<I>so, the wire being what it is, leads me to think avon and marlo end up in jail for a long, long time even though they both want to go out like stringer did, and it’s stringer and prop joe who get killed because neither of them wanted that.</I>

Good guesses! Except Marlo gets an even worse fate—he gets the future that Stringer wanted.

Haha I still can’t do bbcode

ok, I missed something back in season one. who made all those questionable or at least ‘of interest’ political donations all over town that the detail was looking up? the barksdale organization? if so, how did clay davis pull that scam on stringer later on?

The payoff to this in Season 5 is great: Gangsters meet Clay with Levy in attendance: discreet bleeds of money. Gangsters meet Clay without Levy: vast fountains of money!

ugh how does some dude not want bubbles in there. though given his taste in tv he;d probably request a 13th of childish gambino

― regional pug (dealwithit.gif), Sunday, December 4, 2011 11:43 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Permalink

does this mean you’re done fronting on the wire now that you have another show to obsess over as evil hipster snake oil?

lol

should be a painting of all the broads mcnulty banged (campaign manager, waitress, amy ryan, pearlman, honorable mention to the two prosties he got w/via fake (actual?) accent.

wkiw picks: Kimmy and Bunk

watching the second season of damages right now and it’s kind of hilarious to have freamon and rawls all buddy buddy on it, playing rich villains.

ok—i’ve got everything sorted out with the artist and it’s a go! wooo!

portraits will be of:

• Bunk

• McNulty

• Stringer & Avon (large)

• Bubbles

• Clarcetti

• Rawls

• Daniels

• Kima

• Bodie

• Marlo

• Snoop & Chris

• Lester

• Omar

dang..

YouTube Video

Open

sweet hell. i had no idea.

“operation usual suspects”, cops playing cops