Things would be less boring if the code for trackbacks fucking worked. All of my trolling is to PROTEST the sorry shape of ILX code.
Maybe they’ll write a new one!
and we’re TRULY GWATEFUl for it. twuly.
laurel OTM seconded.
because it’s already happened with many subjects (that needn’t have splintered...but now they have and there’s no going back, others should follow suit)
Why is there no going back, particularly on the boards that could by now fit into one thread? What’s the moral force behind ‘should’ there? I just don’t get your viewpoint.
can someone please name any of the intelligent, enriching, worthwhile posters who left because ilx was ‘too mean’?
you
Becky Lucas
There have been threads about the various declines of ILX for about 3 years now. Does this mean it’s in constant decline or not in decline at all? Who knows.
I haven’t been posting much because I haven’t noticed many threads that make me think or capture my attention or make me want to write a post longer than a few lines. I don’t know if others feel the same.
I think the result of that is the shorter more smart assed post, which can be funny.
Some of the recent fights have been kind of insane I guess, but I’m not sure are they actually more ramped up than before, or, and this is crucial, are there just more layers to the onion that is the board now. What I mean is are people so disconnected from whatever idea they have of ILX in their heads, and are there so many posters now, that these huge fights appear even crazier because they don’t know those engaging in them, or they seem distant.
Sometimes I think I get this, all of a sudden everyone is all “louis jagger wtf” or yesterday’s row, and you think “right then...hmmm” and have no real idea what to contribute.
x-post some posters were so beautiful that god had to call them back to his arms
Well now we’re moving to code that, compared to this, is completely feature-free. No trackbacks, no RSS but (hopefully) no honking great holes.
-WDYLL?
-can’t say
1. That’s talking about yourself, which is surely OK. Posting on a WDYLL “you’re an ugly shite” == not OK. And also, like I said, you can talk about someone when they’re the subject of the thread (eg “What do I do about my X?”)
um hello what is the “topic” of the local/clique threads exactly?
um, hi, part of the problem is that because people are too wary to use the open thread they’re clustering into the fucking cliques! But, surely the topic of the DC thread is life as lived by the people in DC, no? I mean, the local threads (that I’ve read) are almost free of vicious attacks on other people in the thread. Which is presumably partly why they’re so popular.
millions of xposts and Laurel OTM
There have been threads about the various declines of ILX for about 3 years now. Does this mean it’s in constant decline or not in decline at all? Who knows.
um hello what is the “topic” of the local/clique threads exactly?
Exactly, that’s the flaw in the argument. And making them exempt wouldn’t work cos a rule with exeptions is no rule at all.
I would be in favour of a “DON’T BE A DICK” rule, but one person’s dickish behaviour is another person’s valiant defender of truth and honour.
Maybe an “IGNORE THE DICK” rule. If someone’s being a dick, ignore them. No-one likes being ignored, and so the horrible people would go away and the nice people would stay being nice. How’s that?
Why is there no going back, particularly on the boards that could by now fit into one thread?
Unless there is some kind of way a majority can register their support to have the under-subscribed boards ditched, and then Stet or whoever can act on that, it seems an irreversible process.
And why are you assuming that just because I wrote ‘should’ I feel I have the moral high ground?
What do you actually think should happen? Leave things as they are? If it is broke don’t try and fix it as you’ll only end up with a different kind of broken?
(Unsurprsingly, Ronan OTM, esp. re: BL.)
1. That’s talking about yourself, which is surely OK. Posting on a WDYLL “you’re an ugly shite” == not OK.
even if dom puts a pic up?
So OTMed today! Gosh. I feel like...I should use my newfound powers for something good!
Maybe an “IGNORE THE DICK” rule. If someone’s being a dick, ignore them. No-one likes being ignored, and so the horrible people would go away and the nice people would stay being nice. How’s that?
Unenforceable, unworkable.
i think i love film should be knocked on the head, but otherwise, ech, let ’em be.
it worked on Bucky Lecas.
maybe an “insert dick here” sign?
I would think this thread would be a textbook example of how people in general cannot ignore someone who annoys them 100% of the time, so expecting that from ILE posters as a general rule is an exercise in setting yourself up for disappointment.
It worked on Becky because someone (Andrew? who has now abandoned ILX forever incidentally) put a warning msg on the ILX homepage which she couldn’t see asking people to ignore specifically her.
You can’t really do that but not direct it at somebody in particular.
And as OTM as Laurel may be, it’s asking a lot of moderators to police the boards for anyone talking about ILX, tho i guess meta threads could be zapped easily enough.
Unless there is some kind of way a majority can register their support to have the under-subscribed boards ditched
What if people who love books or cooking or whatever just start posting their threads on ILE? Why does it need to be so official?
I would think this thread would be a textbook example of how people in general cannot ignore someone who annoys them 100% of the time, so expecting that from ILE posters as a general rule is an exercise in setting yourself up for disappointment.
Exactly. But they can restrain themselves from making personal attacks on those people. And should.
A personal attack on an annoying dick isn’t going to make them shut up or stop, it’s just going to increase the amount of bickering and insulting on the boards!
xpost
And as OTM as Laurel may be, it’s asking a lot of moderators to police the boards for anyone talking about ILX, tho i guess meta threads could be zapped easily enough.
Yeh, talking about ILX is probably OK, if a bit dull. Talking (shit) about other posters isn’t.
It would be a lot easier to ignore those people that one has permanent problems with if...
(And don’t say that there is one on Firefox, blah blah)
self-discipline is a lost art.
If somebody wants to appeal to them and say ‘please post about this on ILE again’ and then shut down their boards they can go right ahead.
xpostx2
we do this thread about every fortnight, i think. fucking mentalists, us.
What if people who love books or cooking or whatever just start posting their threads on ILE? Why does it need to be so official?
— ledge (tomdotledge...)
otm — also i don’t dislike ILF but that’s exactly what’s happened so it may as well not exist.
OTM.
I think the reason local threads are fight free is just familiarity. That’s the same reason football threads are some of the most enjoyable, even though I’m no expert I find myself posting on them more because at least there is banter, and it’s fairly constant (eg Liverpool always shit etc)
I also get this from ILM despite all the criticisms.
It’s quite crazy really to think that ILE, a board which is so open ended in terms of topic, has managed to provide a sense of this familiarity or community in the past, and still does.
I think if people really want a change to the board then they have to give some of their brains to it, and start interesting threads, not attempt to regulate it.
Maybe a lot of people are busy and check in now and again and find nothing to post about. I don’t know if it’s a way back in but lately if I’m bored and want to have a chat on ILE I start a thread, something stupid, eg Oatibix. Selfish maybe to just use the board this way but it keeps links with people I suppose.
oops, my otm was for Dan
no i was making a joke about ignoring nathalie.
— temporary enrique
ROFL.
when did ’133t’ speak take off on ILE anyway?
Before you were here. wink wink I remember when Mark S and Starry would interact and I was like: WTF are they SAYING? Those were the days (that I found ILM very intellectually challenging hence my sporadic postings; it was just so daunting/interesting).
I don’t think that ILX has gone down the dumpster really. There are much less intellectual (*cough* *cough*) threads but that has more to do with the evolution towards just knowing eachother and being pally. I can’yt imagine having intell. conversations with my husband all the time, really.
I dislike the fact that some things have splintered off, cooking, books and film belong here really. Cooking would get so much more traffic if it just kept it’s threads on the main board.
VERY much OT(f)M.
all this talk about ILX threads being dull
but why/how? clearly you all care about ILX
can someone please name any of the intelligent, enriching, worthwhile posters who left because ilx was ‘too mean’?
Ian Riese-Moraine is the first to come to mind. Of course, the bullys might say he wasn’t enriching and worthwhile, which is the reason they were mean to him, but why is up to them to decide? Anyway, there are probably many other posters who have left because of this, it’s just that people probably drift off gradually instead of posting a message saying “I’M LEAVING AND THE REASON IS THIS”. And no doubt there are many posters (myself included) who post less these days because of the meanness.
Unless there is some kind of way a majority can register their support to have the under-subscribed boards ditched, and then Stet or whoever can act on that, it seems an irreversible process.
Or, y’know, people could stop talking about books on ILB and start a thread on ILE, as has happened.
And why are you assuming that just because I wrote ‘should’ I feel I have the moral high ground?
Well I thought it was strange for you to be taking a moral stance on anything, mostly you’re just “This is what everyone does, why change it?”! And particularly on this, where you’re going “this is happening, so we should do this more”, but missing the clause about whether it’s working. You’re beginning to sound like you started from the Bold Step and worked backwards.
What do you actually think should happen? Leave things as they are? If it is broke don’t try and fix it as you’ll only end up with a different kind of broken?
Dude, I didn’t say any of this. I just don’t think there’s any serious movement away from a core ILE. Or at least, none compared with 6 months ago.
self-discipline is a lost art.
I never had it to lose.
The “Oatibix” thread is about food allergies and a recommendation. It’s not too stupid.
Well...frivolous!
What if people who love books or cooking or whatever just start posting their threads on ILE? Why does it need to be so official?
I think partly for the reasons I described above (also because ILB used to be a pretty robust separate site). If I start a thread about a specific book on ILB, I can be fairly confident that no-one’s going to image flood it or start a row on it, because those things don’t happen there.
Sadly, posting doesn’t seem to happen there anymore either, so maybe it should be chopped. I don’t know. It’s not my board.
i think i love film should be knocked on the head
Never gotten any sort of explanation on this one. If it’s “populist”-related, forget it.
Well I thought it was strange for you to be taking a moral stance on anything
I don’t really see it as a ‘moral’ stance, I’m just trying to offer logical/practical solutions as I see it.
“this is happening, so we should do this more”, but missing the clause about whether it’s working
i’m saying it’s not working because it’s a halfway house solution and i’d rather have all or ‘nothing’, then it would work.
hey guys D.C. will make you all a mixtape, that should cheer you up. it’ll be mostly creedence, probably, and this great song we wrote at ally’s yesterday while drinking hot toddys and playing wii called “cats playing baseball,” you’ll like it, we promise.
I can be fairly confident that no-one’s going to image flood it or start a row on it, because those things don’t happen there.
I think the intention should be that this should be mostly true of ILE/ILM as well!
I would think this thread would be a textbook example of how people in general cannot ignore someone who annoys them 100% of the time, so expecting that from ILE posters as a general rule is an exercise in setting yourself up for disappointment.
Yeh, I guess. But look at it this way. Can you ignore someone who annoys you most of the time? (Not YOU specifically Dan, I mean YOU the reader) Let’s assume you can. Well done, you’ve just stopped ALL personal attacks on you. Just by ignoring them!
Oh, it’s their opinions that you dislike? Attack their opinions to shit, really attack them, show the world how they are wrong. But don’t attack them personally, or they’ll probably ignore you.
Well done, you’ve just stopped ALL personal attacks on you. Just by ignoring them!
This is not true. I’ve been attacked/insulted crudely by someone just because I posted a view that differed from theirs. I could keep on trying to ignore them but not if they’re going to continue sniping at my posts regardless of whether I ‘encourage’ it or not. Once or twice is fine whatever but the same shit over years is not.
since the Poptimists went to the other place.
Who are the Poptimists and where did they go?
including one purely for ball-breaking where people can be as nasty as they wanna be
Hi, we did this in 2004, it was called Noise Board.
I think stressing about people posting to sub-boards/regional threads misses the point of a messageboard somewhat (ie, a message board is a place where people go to talk about shit, not so much a place where people go to entertain you).
xpost: JB, I did precisely that yesterday and was told on this thread that I was being ad hominem and borderline homophobic, so vigorously attacking someone’s opinions isn’t really going to discourage annoying bullshit behavior.
the Poptimists thing is baloney. you’re talking about 6 or 7 people max, all of whom still post on ILM occasionally.
Noise Board is far beyond just ball-breaking in terms of scope tho.
The “Oatibix” thread is about food allergies and a recommendation. It’s not too stupid.
It’s interesting (to me, anyway) because part of me wishes there was some way that you could retain a kind of ownership on threads you start on ILE, and appeal to the mods when people are going off-topic, and so protect the thread and hopefully have it be the kind of conversation you wanted to have, but then Ronan could have been a dick and said “hey, I want all these people talking about their food allergies to start their own thread, this is a thread for Oatibix and nothing else”.
I think the intention should be that this should be mostly true of ILE/ILM as well!
Well, that’s how we feel, but clearly the people who think that kind of behaviour is funny don’t feel that way.
all of whom still post on ILM occasionally.
or in one or two cases, frequently.
Well done, you’ve just stopped ALL personal attacks on you. Just by ignoring them!
UH
I think
people posting to sub-boards/regional threads misses the point of a messageboard somewhat
(just cos ILX wasn’t erally like that when i got dragged in kicking and screaming yo)
This is not true. I’ve been attacked/insulted crudely by someone just because I posted a view that differed from theirs. I could keep on trying to ignore them but not if they’re going to continue sniping at my posts regardless of whether I ‘encourage’ it or not. Once or twice is fine whatever but the same shit over years is not.
indeed, and then they’ll deny they ever made a personal attack at all despite the evidence being RIGHT FUCKING THERE (see: 7 posts up)
i’m mildly shocked that jaymc.xls didn’t know about poptimists!
he does really, it’s a scamola
I could keep on trying to ignore them but not if they’re going to continue sniping at my posts regardless of whether I ‘encourage’ it or not.
If it was just you, then fair enough. But if everyone ignored them (kinda what I meant anyway, sorry) then they’d soon stop, and either start being nice or go away. After all, the worst thing to do to an attention seeker is to give them no attention. But maybe I’ve got an optimistic view of the world, and I assume that everyone on this thread is a nice person who really can just rise above any sniping and be a grown-up. Sorry guys.
The problem is that lots of people don’t count on public acclaim to keep them going, if zinging (to whatever degree) amuses them sufficiently. And if everyone ignores them with the best of intentions, the beleaguered noob or whoever is still left feeling attacked and unsupported and doesn’t know that there’s actually widespread disapproval of the behavior. Leads to “woe is me” threads and self-pity and bitterness and reprisal etc etc.
If only more people were, like, “hi dere it is the internets” and didn’t really connect it to life, maybe we could all shrug it off...? But then, what good would online/written/anything communication be at all?
But if everyone ignored them (kinda what I meant anyway, sorry) then they’d soon stop, and either start being nice or go away.
he’s talking about marcello who gives a radically different version of himself to different people on different days and you can’t expect people to just ignore him cos he’s a dick to steve, especially because a fair number of people know him offline and don’t notice him being a dick. in fact his better friends do seem to step in and say stop being a cunt when he’s trolling. so i think yr strategy is the opposite of right.
I’ve heard the term “poptimism,” but I didn’t realize it was actually a cabal. I suspect it’s because I don’t read Freaky Trigger that much. (Might I add that I think the turning point for ILX was when the number of posters who didn’t know or care about Freaky Trigger exceeded the number of posters who did?)
Steve, I know that Noise Board is more than just “ball-breaking,” but I thought it was worth pointing out that previous instances of “why don’t you start your own board?” haven’t exactly diminished the level of bullying and zing culture. Since lots of people, like myself, tend to jump around from ILM to ILE to NB, the mentality of one board is often going to seep into that of another.
If only more people were, like, “hi dere it is the internets” and didn’t really connect it to life, maybe we could all shrug it off...?
You could argue that if more people did connect it to real life, then maybe they wouldn’t be so dickish.
that previous instances of “why don’t you start your own board?” haven’t exactly diminished the level of bullying and zing culture.
Speaking subjectively, they have, but they’ve also allowed it to get a lot of local positive reinforcement going on, so when they spill back over here it’s more toxic than before.
I think the problem is that Everyone has a Posse, so no-one’s that bothered about what other gangs think of them.
i think the Noise Board created a dynamic that propelled bullying/zing culture further into ILM and ILE. this may seem unfair to some. and there are some aspects of NB i do like at the same time which causes internal conflicts galore.
I have met approx 60 ILXers IRL and liked all but one. Some of the 60 occasionally act dickish online but were far from dickish IRL.
can someone please name any of the intelligent, enriching, worthwhile posters who left because ilx was ‘too mean’ were ever on ilx?
fixed.
It’s interesting (to me, anyway) because part of me wishes there was some way that you could retain a kind of ownership on threads you start on ILE, and appeal to the mods when people are going off-topic, and so protect the thread and hopefully have it be the kind of conversation you wanted to have,
see I hate this kind of thing. To me the idea of thread “ownership” and making things stick to one person’s idea of on-topic seems really non-organic and against the spirit of board like this altogether. I know it’s a matter of opinion/perceoption but I hate it when people start acting like spoiled only children when it comes to “their” threads. (not saying that you’re doing this accentmonkey)
i mean it IS unfair because of previous instances such as Calum (who obnoxiously trolled relentlessly and was trolled relentlessly back) and non-NB dudes like Marcello and i suppose Buttez. i’m NOT saying that ILE and ILM didn’t already feature petty sniping and vendettas before NB. it’s just the difference between having people vs people and what feels like boards vs boards that has changed imo dramatically.
The noise board is like 2% mean zings (except when there’s a fit of outrage) while ILE is at least 5% mean zings
To me the idea of thread “ownership” and making things stick to one person’s idea of on-topic seems really non-organic and against the spirit of board like this altogether. I know it’s a matter of opinion/perceoption but I hate it when people start acting like spoiled only children when it comes to “their” threads. (not saying that you’re doing this accentmonkey)
— Ms Misery (missmisery7...), February 14th, 2007.
OTM
I guess the mean sniping on the noise board is kept in threads devoted to being mean, rather than allowing it to spill over into UK Watercooler, Poptimism, WDYLL, etc.
Everybody on ILX has always had a posse! The big difference is that for about 6 months, everyone was in the same posse.
Aw, I wish I was here for that!
threads devoted to being mean
did NB introduce this concept?
was it just an honest approach? taking what already happened on ILE and ILM to a logical conclusion?
did NB introduce this concept?
was it just an honest approach? taking what already happened on ILE and ILM to a logical conclusion?
— resumo impetus (n...), February 14th, 2007.
It was right is everyone’s face, Tyler and I just made it visible. It was on the tip of everyone’s tongue, Tyler and I just gave it a name.
xp Yes, I think so.
Also Sam OTM about ownership.
Yeah, I know, Miss M, I wasn’t really advocating it. As I say, I really like the organic way that threads grow and develop, except when they grow and develop in a way that drives off anyone who actually had anything to say.
You know, I once knew a web community where the moderator threw a hissy fit and threatened to ban a poster just for MENTIONING MY NAME in their .sig (shortly after I had left).
Some people will find a way to perpetuate feuds and things no matter how much others ignore them or remove themselves. Almost anyone can occasionally act dickish. Usually it says more about what is going on in their own lives, than in the life of ILX—until it takes a major blowup to set ILX acquivvering.
This thread itself has revealed just what different views different people on ILX have about ILX. It’s certainly been illuminating in that way. I’ve generally been feeling relentlessly “OTM” to Accentmonkey.
I suppose you’re right about the flameculture of NB infecting ILE, Stevem.
I think ILE should be ditched for nu-ILX. It’s run it’s course. Have 50 different boards for the subjects that get talked about including one purely for ball-breaking where people can be as nasty as they wanna be. Continuing to try and accommodate all these different attitudes in one place ain’t working however noble it may seem on paper. There’s already considerable fragmentation on ILE so let’s just go the whole hog and be done with it.
this is steve from forever ago and i don’t know if it’s entirely serious, but, no! to it all.
what Trish said.
WRT ownership, Sam otm. And before you accuse the NB of being held to a different standard, we offer everyone a chance to be an argumentative buttheaded asshole.
xpost
Kate, you’re probably the most likely to fit in on the noise board of all the people who dislike it!!!
You know, I once knew a web community where the moderator threw a hissy fit and threatened to ban a poster just for MENTIONING MY NAME in their .sig (shortly after I had left).
There was a board where my name was verboten to the point where accounts were deleted for mentioning me offhand. Funny, after I left (4 years ago?), the community decayed to nothing.
i’ve been close to starting a “on this thread we just fucking swear at each other” thread many times, but haven’t cos i’m not sure it’s not lame and all my threads tank somehow anyway!
Funny, after I left (4 years ago?), the community decayed to nothing.
Yeah, ditto.
YOU TWO WERE MEANT TO BE TOGETHER
which proves what exactly?
and i don’t know if it’s entirely serious,
of course it was serious
I have started “call each other out on this thread” threads and no one has ever wanted to use them (except for the general “sand in vagina” thread).
It’s back to the difference between “being the person you are” and “acting the character that you have assumed for yourself here”
of course it was serious
ok, well, again, i think it’s a terrible idea. the all-in-together messiness and the friction of ile is its strength, maybe its ONLY strength. thread balkanization is one thing; more and more board balkanization will be the heat-death of the whole enterprise, i’m sure of it.
Take that hill on the orders of general sand invagina! (sorry)
M Grout so OTM!
WRT “ownership” it’s a tricky subject.
I do think that if a thread has started to discuss (or avoid) a certain specific subject, people should stick to the topic for the most part. If other subjects arise, new threads can come up. (the way that the “Self” thread evolved out of the “dating non-vegetarians” thread, to me, was a very good example of that.)
In a perfect world, one wouldn’t need the concept of “ownership” over threads, because people would be reasonable and polite and not drag threads off topic unduly (Something I used to do myself terribly, before I had the ‘Cooler thread to corral all my current obsessions into.) or degenerate into personalness. But the world is not perfect, and threads *do* get prematurely atrophied—or unreasonably blown up into hellish conflicts—when it would have been a lot more interesting if they had stuck to their original remit.
oh god not that again.
people, here, are exactly like how they are, “for real.” i think a lot of times they don’t even know how, but they are.
less zings, more zazz
more and more board balkanization will be the heat-death of the whole enterprise, i’m sure of it.
what so there is some sort of ceiling to balkanisation? anymore and the engines cannae take it cap’n? doubt this myself
again all i am advocating is a quicker move towards what started happening 2/3 years ago. logical progression and conclusion. because i don’t think this thing has a reverse gear.
I think I can be more myself right here than IRL sometimes.
I’m often more charming, witty, and better looking here.
(Take no notice, I have no Idea what I mean by that, I think)
Lex can you please stop right-wing agenda-seeking with Dan please, it’s making you look paranoid and petty. In any case there was probably FAR more casual homophobia in what Ethan and Dom wrote than anything Dan said.
This whole spectacle hasn’t really been edifying for anyone especially Lex and Dom. FWIW the post Lex linked to wasn’t about Dom getting dumped nor was it about a suicide attempt, but it did paint Dom in a very poor light indeed which is probably why a) he got so enormously pissed off and b) he made up that suicide stuff as an appeal to sympathy and a way of winning a fight.
Many xposts—using the noise board as a scapegoat for everything that’s wrong with ILX is disingenous considering the real bitter rivalries stretch back way before that and the noise board was actually set up in the first place to keep this stuff OFF the rest of ILE.
The point is that the people going “ooh you are all being nasty and bullying” and the people going “ooh you people are just being oversensitive” are NEVER going to agree so there’s no point in even having this argument.
The problem with zing culture is its BORING. You open any thread and then there’s the same four or five posters all zinging each other and you can tell THEY’RE not even finding it particularly entertaining, they’re just doing it because they’re bored and they can’t stop posting. Enrique did it about four posts into this thread with that knackered old Mark C/Pringles meme that surely only the most easily amused can still find funny. It’s fucking annoying for the rest of us to have to trawl though as well.
Might I add that I think the turning point for ILX was when the number of posters who didn’t know or care about Freaky Trigger exceeded the number of posters who did?)
This is OTM I think, the moment when the sense of cohesive community sort of evaporated and as did any claim to some sort of universal ‘ethos’ of the boards. And although Ethan asks can someone please name any of the intelligent, enriching, worthwhile posters who left because ilx was ‘too mean’? it’s pretty clear that the likes of Tom E, Mark S, John D and so forth stopped posting as much (if not left) because the overall atmosphere was something they didn’t really want to be involved in.
the noise board was actually set up in the first place
so I could edit messages and embed audio after ILE banned me from doing it!
using the noise board as a scapegoat for everything that’s wrong with ILX is disingenous considering the real bitter rivalries stretch back way before that and the noise board was actually set up in the first place to keep this stuff OFF the rest of ILE.
yeah no-one is really saying this. see my post re ‘boards vs boards’ mentality.
xpost yeah matt otm all around
But the world is not perfect, and threads *do* get prematurely atrophied—or unreasonably blown up into hellish conflicts—when it would have been a lot more interesting if they had stuck to their original remit.
they got exactly as interesting, or not, or atrophied, or blown up, based on what the people participating in them wanted at the time. look, this is a market, not a project. you have to take the occasional shitty outcomes with a little zen grimace and just get on to the next thing, srsly.
In any case there was probably FAR more casual homophobia in what Ethan and Dom wrote than anything Dan said.
as i SAID, but i expect nothing less from them so it had less impact.
the mark c pringles zing is a classic and i stand behind it but also it was worth doing because 1) that was the whole point: lol irony DYS using a knackered zing on a(nother pointless thread complaining) about how uncivilized and filled with old zings ilx is nowadays 2) matt you don’t like *any* threads on ilx so far as i can tell these days, you’re enjoying it possibly even less than me, 3) same goes for mark who’s here so little it seems really weird he’d start a thread leaping to the defence of mickey; in fact the only reason he would do so is he doesn’t know mickey’s whole deal.
