DREAMGIRLS

Message Bookmarked

Bookmark Removed

Not all messages are displayed: show all messages (295 of them)

OTM. it's nice when moviegoing transforms into a community experience.

― horseshoe (horseshoe), Tuesday, 2 January 2007 19:40 (seventeen years ago) link

Best fun with movies in theaters is either that full participation in a full theatre or a situation where it's just you and a couple of friends and nobody else (which has happened a couple of times over the years).

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 2 January 2007 19:42 (seventeen years ago) link

Dan why do you characterize the "American Idol"-style as being roughly 40 years old...? I thought we had Mariah Carey to blame for all that melismatic scale-running R&B stuff.

HI DERE ARETHA FRANKLIN + SWEET HONEY IN THE ROCK + SOUNDS OF BLACKNESS + APPROX A GAZILLION ACTS FROM BEFORE THEN IN THE GOSPEL/BLUES ARENA

― Jesus Dan (dan perry), Tuesday, 2 January 2007 19:54 (seventeen years ago) link

yeah Effie seemed clearly Aretha Franklinesque to me.

― horseshoe (horseshoe), Tuesday, 2 January 2007 19:56 (seventeen years ago) link

Even if you don't buy the Aretha comparison, check Jennifer Holliday's performance at the 1982 Tonys:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=czftJYMoRv4

Kind of can't blame Mariah for a song interpretation that predates her by eight years!

― Jesus Dan (dan perry), Tuesday, 2 January 2007 20:01 (seventeen years ago) link

Yeah, a spontaneous expression of delight is OK, and doing at the end credits sure ain't that.

equating Aretha w/ American Idol = OH NOES

― Dr M (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 2 January 2007 20:02 (seventeen years ago) link

"why is this aretha person dressing up like a white lady and not singing in the guttural, unmodulated tones of the authentic negro experience"

― Euai Kapaui (tracerhand), Tuesday, 2 January 2007 20:03 (seventeen years ago) link

spontaneous expressions of delight can happen whenever, that is what the word spontaneous means

― a mediocre black-and-white cookie in a cellophane wrapper (hanks1ockli), Tuesday, 2 January 2007 20:07 (seventeen years ago) link

When Jennifer Hudson sang "This time... Effie's gonna WIN!", a woman in my theatre shouted "HOT DAMN!"

― Jesus Dan (dan perry), Tuesday, 2 January 2007 20:11 (seventeen years ago) link

yeah, the first time I saw it, the theater was packed (Christmas Day) it was clear no one could quite contain themselves every time Hudson was onscreen. 75-year-old women were murmuring with delight. it was pretty awesome.

― horseshoe (horseshoe), Tuesday, 2 January 2007 20:12 (seventeen years ago) link

Dan why do you characterize the "American Idol"-style as being roughly 40 years old...? I thought we had Mariah Carey to blame for all that melismatic scale-running R&B stuff.

I say Stevie Wonder really popularized it, but I love him and think he's responsible for almost everything in pop.

― Eric H. (Eric H.), Tuesday, 2 January 2007 20:19 (seventeen years ago) link

That's probably fair; all the women wanted to sound like Aretha and all the men wanted to sound like Stevie and Marvin.

― Jesus Dan (dan perry), Tuesday, 2 January 2007 20:21 (seventeen years ago) link

"This time... Effie's gonna WIN!"

Yeah, the (white) woman behind me was all "you give it to him" at that point.

― Eric H. (Eric H.), Tuesday, 2 January 2007 20:22 (seventeen years ago) link

Especially the Brits.

(xpost)

― Alfred Soto (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 2 January 2007 20:22 (seventeen years ago) link

Man, I really want to see this movie.

Also, I don't really like polite applause as the credits roll, but spontaneous cheers during key moments in the movie can be fun. (There were a couple of the Children of Men screening I caught yesterday.)

― jaymc (jaymc), Tuesday, 2 January 2007 20:24 (seventeen years ago) link

I hear that style more in Stevie than I do in Aretha or Marvin (neither of whom were prone to random runs up and down a scale in the middle of a phrase)

― Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 2 January 2007 20:24 (seventeen years ago) link

It's strange because Stevie made that sound so happy, whereas most singers who do it today sound emotionless.

― Eric H. (Eric H.), Tuesday, 2 January 2007 21:32 (seventeen years ago) link

they sound emotionless because they are emotionless - melisma signifies itself, or "I (think I) am singing well" or "I am expressing feelings completely alien to me" (though maybe I just don't know how hard it was for the mickey mouse club at a young age)

equating Aretha w/ American Idol = OH NOES

OTM. I even like Mariah. But 99% of melismatic stuff is total shite.

anyway, I'd be into seeing Eddie Murphy, but probably not enough to see this? Anything notable abt Jamie Foxx' performance?

― nuneb (nuneb), Tuesday, 2 January 2007 21:36 (seventeen years ago) link

gabbneb OTM on showoffy melismatic bullshit. I'd compare it to those horrendous guitar solos that ruin so much '70s rock and nearly all metal for me.

― Dr M (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 2 January 2007 21:41 (seventeen years ago) link

it is kinda similar to the finger-tapping/endless soloing trope of electric guitarists, except that post 70s none of that shit was even remotely popular. whereas this has become the dominant vocal style of pop music.

― Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 2 January 2007 21:42 (seventeen years ago) link

Emotionless except when Stevie does it (which, admittedly, isn't anywhere near as often as people like J-Hud).

― Eric H. (Eric H.), Tuesday, 2 January 2007 21:43 (seventeen years ago) link

I had no idea there was a NAME for it! That shit drives me crazy.

― Laurel (Laurel), Tuesday, 2 January 2007 21:43 (seventeen years ago) link

guitar solos might suck a lot too, but they don't necessarily pretend to be about anything

― nuneb (nuneb), Tuesday, 2 January 2007 21:46 (seventeen years ago) link

and I'll bet they're more frequently lyrical in their appointed role

― nuneb (nuneb), Tuesday, 2 January 2007 21:47 (seventeen years ago) link

Anything notable abt Jamie Foxx' performance?

No. He was far more charismatic in Miami Vice, if that says anything.

― Eric H. (Eric H.), Tuesday, 2 January 2007 21:48 (seventeen years ago) link

When did this thread turn into ilm?

― The Many Faces of Gordon Jump (Leon), Tuesday, 2 January 2007 21:49 (seventeen years ago) link

It's appropriate in the sense that I think the film's biggest shortcoming is its lame music.

― Eric H. (Eric H.), Tuesday, 2 January 2007 21:50 (seventeen years ago) link

No. He was far more charismatic in Miami Vice, if that says anything.

he was playing a cold dude! his was the only role that called for understatement and he was understated. I thought he was good.

I don't have an opinion on melisma in the abstract, but Jennifer Hudson did not sound emotionless when she employed it, for god's sake.

― horseshoe (horseshoe), Tuesday, 2 January 2007 21:51 (seventeen years ago) link

Melisma allows the pitchfork set something to get all Andy Rooney about.

― The Many Faces of Gordon Jump (Leon), Tuesday, 2 January 2007 21:54 (seventeen years ago) link

in my day a singer just sang the song and didn't do all that ooowowoohaohyeeeahowhaohwha bullshit *grumble grumble*

― Shakey Old Man (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 2 January 2007 21:55 (seventeen years ago) link

(waves fist at small children)

― Shakey Old Man (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 2 January 2007 21:55 (seventeen years ago) link

You know, I hatehatehate the twang inherent in most country music but I have enough awareness of both the genre and myself to know that this is my issue, not the genre's. Understanding that internal bias has allowed me to work through it and enjoy some really great country artists (primarily Dolly Parton). Not only are you guys walling yourselves off from a lot of enjoyable stuff with this hardline attitude (which of course is your perogative), you are also making baldly ignorant, uninformed, flat-out stupid generalizations about the artists performing in this style (which is also your perogative and also subjective but maybe not quite the way you want to present yourselves to others).

― Jesus Dan (dan perry), Tuesday, 2 January 2007 21:56 (seventeen years ago) link

Did I mention how much I love this man's melisma?

http://www.solarnavigator.net/music/music_images/stevie_wonder_beads.jpg

― Eric H. (Eric H.), Tuesday, 2 January 2007 21:58 (seventeen years ago) link

dood I love pop music and r&b I'm not taking a hardline attitude.

― Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 2 January 2007 21:59 (seventeen years ago) link

I'm pointing out the way your rhetoric is coming across to me; if you'd like to modify it so that you communicate your point to me in a clearer manner, go for it.

― Jesus Dan (dan perry), Tuesday, 2 January 2007 22:01 (seventeen years ago) link

(altho I will confess that I flat-out hate 99.9% of the American Idol contestants and their associated stylistic characteristics that are usually ascribed as positives. Xtina et al also bore me horribly but more for reasons of content/subtext than anything else)

― Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 2 January 2007 22:03 (seventeen years ago) link

I don't think anyone who dislikes melisma here could remotely be described as either the pitchfork set or needing an excuse to get all Andy Rooney

my taste should also make clear that little stands between me and stuff I might like and that I never let how my preferences might appear to others interfere with my critical instinct

― nuneb (nuneb), Tuesday, 2 January 2007 22:05 (seventeen years ago) link

I don't know American Idol very well but I appreciate its existence if only because of the added resonance of Hudson's casting in Dreamgirls. didn't she basically get kicked off of Idol for being too fat?

― horseshoe (horseshoe), Tuesday, 2 January 2007 22:05 (seventeen years ago) link

I mean, I was being sarcastic with those "old man" posts - otherwise its not me calling the style "emotionless" or "bullshit", I was more interested in why you think the style is 40 years old than anything else. Cuz to my radio-listenin ears that style didn't come anywhere close to dominance until the post-"I Will Always Love You"-Whitney 90s (to bring it full circle to Dolly)

― Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 2 January 2007 22:07 (seventeen years ago) link

x-post!

― Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 2 January 2007 22:08 (seventeen years ago) link

After seeing Dreamgirls, I can't say I disagree with this quote from the IndieWire critics' poll:

What does it say about our world that you can lose "American Idol" and win an Academy Award for doing basically the same thing? -- Matt Singer

For better or worse, the people who win American Idol typically don't respond as well to vocal pyrotechnics as they do to unique personalities. It's why Paris didn't win last time around and that doofus (who I'm told is likable) did.

― Eric H. (Eric H.), Tuesday, 2 January 2007 22:09 (seventeen years ago) link

the specific style Dan was talking about is melisma-as-employed-by-Hudson-in-Dreamgirls, which you announced you had no desire to see, right?

― horseshoe (horseshoe), Tuesday, 2 January 2007 22:09 (seventeen years ago) link

and it IS like guitar solo-ing insofar as it is an overtly self-conscious display of technique, range, skill, etc. Its got an inherently "show-off"-y kind of quality.

― Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 2 January 2007 22:10 (seventeen years ago) link

After seeing Dreamgirls, I can't say I disagree with this quote from the IndieWire critics' poll:

What does it say about our world that you can lose "American Idol" and win an Academy Award for doing basically the same thing? -- Matt Singer

-- Eric H. (ephende...), Today. (later

wtf does this post mean at all? she hasn't even won an oscar yet! how can you "agree" with that?

― a mediocre black-and-white cookie in a cellophane wrapper (hanks1ockli), Tuesday, 2 January 2007 22:11 (seventeen years ago) link

"the specific style Dan was talking about is melisma-as-employed-by-Hudson-in-Dreamgirls, which you announced you had no desire to see, right?"

well there are a number of reasons I have no desire to see it: no one I like is involved, I'm overly familiar with the story and don't find it engaging as subject matter, I haven't liked the music to any Broadway musical post-1980 or so, no actual Supremes music is used, etc. None of these are really related to my feelings about melisma-as-style.

― Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 2 January 2007 22:12 (seventeen years ago) link

I guess I don't understand discussing melisma-as-style without discussing specific examples. I mean, opera singers employ melisma, and presumably aren't influenced by Whitney Houston overmuch. I don't get how you can be so authoritative about the sources of Hudson's singing style in the movie when you haven't seen it.

― horseshoe (horseshoe), Tuesday, 2 January 2007 22:15 (seventeen years ago) link

how can you "agree" with that?

"How do you sleep at night?!"

― Eric H. (Eric H.), Tuesday, 2 January 2007 22:15 (seventeen years ago) link

just curious how you can agree with a hypothetical question about a hypothetical event! what are you agreeing with?

― a mediocre black-and-white cookie in a cellophane wrapper (hanks1ockli), Tuesday, 2 January 2007 22:17 (seventeen years ago) link

sorry, i guess i mean a rhetorical question about a hypothetical event.

― a mediocre black-and-white cookie in a cellophane wrapper (hanks1ockli), Tuesday, 2 January 2007 22:17 (seventeen years ago) link

I agree that it's odd to consider that she lost one talent contest and may win a different, supposedly more prestigious talent contest. And that audience/peer response informs that split.

― Eric H. (Eric H.), Tuesday, 2 January 2007 22:19 (seventeen years ago) link

Skipping 195 messages at this point... Click here if you want to load them all.

You must be logged in to post. Please either login here, or if you are not registered, you may register here.