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Loved it!

Good Eddie Murphy where have you been all this time?

― debito (debito), Tuesday, 2 January 2007 03:23 (seventeen years ago) link

What didn't you like about it, Eric?

― Jesus Dan (dan perry), Tuesday, 2 January 2007 03:23 (seventeen years ago) link

Nothing really complicated. I just didn't like the songs, which is a pretty big roadblock when it comes to musicals.

The musical I'm waiting for someone to make: City of Angels.

― Eric H. (Eric H.), Tuesday, 2 January 2007 03:26 (seventeen years ago) link

Eddie Murphy, however, very very good in a surprisingly smallish role. Nearly as good as he was in Nutty Professor, imo.

― Eric H. (Eric H.), Tuesday, 2 January 2007 03:27 (seventeen years ago) link

He should get an Oscar, but he probably won't.

― The Many Faces of Gordon Jump (Leon), Tuesday, 2 January 2007 03:29 (seventeen years ago) link

He def. deserves it more than the pervert in Little Children or Jack Nicholson. Maybe not as much as Mark Wahlberg, should he get nominated.

― Eric H. (Eric H.), Tuesday, 2 January 2007 03:35 (seventeen years ago) link

Ha, this movie/show basically panders to my tastes in musical theatre so that wasn't an obstacle to me. Also, JENNIFER HUDSON OMG

― Jesus Dan (dan perry), Tuesday, 2 January 2007 03:36 (seventeen years ago) link

There was also applause for JH in the theater I attended.

― debito (debito), Tuesday, 2 January 2007 03:46 (seventeen years ago) link

I like some musical theater, though I guess I should note that I spelled it e-r instead of r-e.

― Eric H. (Eric H.), Tuesday, 2 January 2007 03:50 (seventeen years ago) link

yeah they went NUTS for hudson when i saw it.

the songs didn't totally do it for me (esp compared to the stuff they're emulating) but the performances sold them.

― a mediocre black-and-white cookie in a cellophane wrapper (hanks1ockli), Tuesday, 2 January 2007 03:52 (seventeen years ago) link

There was also applause for JH in the theater I attended.

Yeah, mine too.

― The Many Faces of Gordon Jump (Leon), Tuesday, 2 January 2007 03:52 (seventeen years ago) link

The movie is really about the Supremes, but in the wake of hard-hitting, warts-and-all musician biopics "Ray" and "Walk the Line," this approach doesn't cut it.

puke

― a mediocre black-and-white cookie in a cellophane wrapper (hanks1ockli), Tuesday, 2 January 2007 03:53 (seventeen years ago) link

I do have a hard time separating "And I'm Telling You" from Chris Rock's White Person's Guide To Surviving The Apollo though.

― The Many Faces of Gordon Jump (Leon), Tuesday, 2 January 2007 03:54 (seventeen years ago) link

my queeny boss liked it just fine, but he felt the Beyonce character was softened up too much compared to the stage version, making her less bitchy took a lot of the bite out of it. anybody familiar with both the stage & film versions feel the same way?

― bliss (blass), Tuesday, 2 January 2007 03:56 (seventeen years ago) link

she was kind of a non-character but i thought that was the point?

― a mediocre black-and-white cookie in a cellophane wrapper (hanks1ockli), Tuesday, 2 January 2007 03:57 (seventeen years ago) link

Yeah, the Beyonce casting was right on.

― debito (debito), Tuesday, 2 January 2007 04:24 (seventeen years ago) link

I didn't really like this much at all...Hudson was def. great, but apart from that, the film didn't impress me. The majority of the music was lackluster, and the film really seemed to lose all of its energy after "And I Am Telling You."
Overall, it was too much flash and not enough substance. I mean, I'm not opposed to over-the-top musical numbers, but when there's almost nothing else in the film, it gets monotonous.

― Tape Store (Tape Store), Tuesday, 2 January 2007 05:21 (seventeen years ago) link

And why are so many reviewers surprised that Hudson outshined Beyonce? C'mon! That's the way the film was written.

― Tape Store (Tape Store), Tuesday, 2 January 2007 05:26 (seventeen years ago) link

saw it again just now! there was clapping in the theater for Hudson during "And I'm Telling You" both times I saw it.

the songs are not great, but it is so exactly what I've always wanted from a movie musical in every other way that I can't complain. smartest editing-of-montages ever! and it's not the reason I like it, but the casting is so eerily brilliant on a meta level. Beyonce and Jennifer Hudson especially, but Eddie Murphy, too, a little. I can't even imagine how uncomfortable saying those lines must have been for Beyonce.

― horseshoe (horseshoe), Tuesday, 2 January 2007 06:15 (seventeen years ago) link

I've seen so many lackluster film adaptations of musicals with really brilliant songs (the entire Rodgers and Hart body of work comes to mind) that I think I'm willing to forgive brilliant filming of mediocre songs.

that dude who played Effie's brother is adorable.

― horseshoe (horseshoe), Tuesday, 2 January 2007 06:20 (seventeen years ago) link

oh, and regarding this:

I am roffling at the reviews that say "EW, THEY SANG DIALOGUE AT EACH OTHER"

I really dug the way the movie didn't naturalize this, the way movie musicals sometimes do, by providing a pretext for people to be talking-then-singing. the movie managed to retain that shock of unrealism of people singing dialogue at each other. and yeah, people who can't appreciate that have no business watching musicals.

― horseshoe (horseshoe), Tuesday, 2 January 2007 06:50 (seventeen years ago) link

that dude who played Effie's brother is adorable.

I kept waiting for him to turn gay in the movie, but when he stormed out of a recording session because Foxx was overlaying disco orchestration, I figured it wasn't going to happen.

― Eric H. (Eric H.), Tuesday, 2 January 2007 07:34 (seventeen years ago) link

roffle

― debito (debito), Tuesday, 2 January 2007 07:38 (seventeen years ago) link

The movie is really about the Supremes, but in the wake of hard-hitting, warts-and-all musician biopics "Ray" and "Walk the Line," this approach doesn't cut it.

I haven't seen either of these but my understanding is that these are by the numbers right? Much in the vein of that Germs trailer?

― jw (ex machina), Tuesday, 2 January 2007 13:11 (seventeen years ago) link

GERMS trailer?

― nathalie (stevienixed), Tuesday, 2 January 2007 13:13 (seventeen years ago) link

totally by the numbers

― a mediocre black-and-white cookie in a cellophane wrapper (hanks1ockli), Tuesday, 2 January 2007 13:52 (seventeen years ago) link

well ray at least, i couldn't be bothered to see wtl

― a mediocre black-and-white cookie in a cellophane wrapper (hanks1ockli), Tuesday, 2 January 2007 13:52 (seventeen years ago) link

i kind of got tired of music by the end of this film.

― maunders (maunders), Tuesday, 2 January 2007 13:57 (seventeen years ago) link

At least Ray featured Ray Charles' music, not Broadway versions of Charles songs.

So, does Hudson give a performance or is it just that one scene you all keep talking about?

― Alfred Soto (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 2 January 2007 14:16 (seventeen years ago) link

GERMS trailer?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZrgfE8oANLQ

― jw (ex machina), Tuesday, 2 January 2007 14:29 (seventeen years ago) link

might rent this one day (I already own earplugs)

― Dr M (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 2 January 2007 14:37 (seventeen years ago) link

So, does Hudson give a performance or is it just that one scene you all keep talking about?

She definitely gives a performance. After I stopped freaking out about AI's Season 3 7th-place finisher getting this amazing role, she really became Effie for me (I should note it only took me 5 minutes to get over the AI thing). Her portrayal was a lot more nuanced than I was expecting; both she and Eddie Murphy were extraordinary but everyone else was excellent.

― Jesus Dan (dan perry), Tuesday, 2 January 2007 14:47 (seventeen years ago) link

Is she the one who sang that totally showstopping number on AI, with the outrageously strong, long high note, and got voted off immediately afterwards?

― Euai Kapaui (tracerhand), Tuesday, 2 January 2007 14:49 (seventeen years ago) link

I'm glad Armond White's pan included a rant about what absolute shit the American Idol style of bellowing is.

http://www.nypress.com/19/51/film/ArmondWhite2.cfm

Heheh, I will definitely see Camp now.

― Dr M (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 2 January 2007 14:53 (seventeen years ago) link

Ugh, the NY Press is now calling itself "New York's Premier Alternative Newspaper."

― Euai Kapaui (tracerhand), Tuesday, 2 January 2007 15:06 (seventeen years ago) link

Am I supposed to grovel in shame because I haven't seen one episode of American Idol?

― Alfred Soto (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 2 January 2007 15:09 (seventeen years ago) link

You're supposed to feel smug.

― Euai Kapaui (tracerhand), Tuesday, 2 January 2007 15:12 (seventeen years ago) link

or just old-fashioned (the standards thing)

― Dr M (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 2 January 2007 15:14 (seventeen years ago) link

(and I don't mean Tin Pan Alley standards, not explicitly)

― Dr M (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 2 January 2007 15:15 (seventeen years ago) link

Is she the one who sang that totally showstopping number on AI, with the outrageously strong, long high note, and got voted off immediately afterwards?

Yes.

I continue to be amused by people who refer to a style of singing that is close to 40 years old as "the American Idol style". I also take issue with the implication that "Dreamgirls" somehow has a responsibility to be a factually-accurate biopic because it was inspired by The Supremes.

― Jesus Dan (dan perry), Tuesday, 2 January 2007 15:18 (seventeen years ago) link

Haha that's what I thought! Paul Sci-Fi Soul still has that episode on his Tivo.

― Euai Kapaui (tracerhand), Tuesday, 2 January 2007 15:20 (seventeen years ago) link

I only demand songs that sound like a Supremes-inspired combo could perform them, not songs that sound like Broadway-inspired Supremes.

― Alfred Soto (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 2 January 2007 15:22 (seventeen years ago) link

Um. Given where the musical came from, that's kind of... stupid?

― Jesus Dan (dan perry), Tuesday, 2 January 2007 15:24 (seventeen years ago) link

the implication that "Dreamgirls" somehow has a responsibility to be a factually-accurate biopic

I wonder who implied this.

So there's credit to be given if it's faithful to something that wasn't good in 1981 either?

― Dr M (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 2 January 2007 15:26 (seventeen years ago) link

I never cared for the source material.

The review you posted was pretty stupid though. Hasn't that critic seen The Umbrellas of Cherbourg?

― Alfred Soto (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 2 January 2007 15:28 (seventeen years ago) link

Criticisms that boil down to "This isn't black enough" don't really fly with me so I apologize for any brusqueness. That is the undertone I get from the vast majority of complaints about the songs from this show; criticizing a Broadway musical for sounding like a Broadway musical doesn't make sense to me.

(xpost: Oh come on Morbs, that's what that Armond White review is complaining about, along with the token "I hate Eddie Murphy" aside. And yes, I think that there is some credit to be given for retaining so much of the flavor of the source material after translating from the stage to the screen; if they hadn't done that part well, everything else would have been moot and no one would care if the songs were Motown-worthy or not.)

― Jesus Dan (dan perry), Tuesday, 2 January 2007 15:31 (seventeen years ago) link

(hahaha note to self: do not rely on Wikipedia. Pretend I didn't say the Eddie Murphy nonsense)

― Jesus Dan (dan perry), Tuesday, 2 January 2007 15:33 (seventeen years ago) link

Armond is generally a solid Murphy fan (he raved about NP2: The Klumps).

― Dr M (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 2 January 2007 15:34 (seventeen years ago) link

Yeah, two seconds of googling cleared up my Wiki-induced misconceptions. I meant to delete that anyway; stupid switching between windows messing up my editing.

― Jesus Dan (dan perry), Tuesday, 2 January 2007 15:37 (seventeen years ago) link

morbius you should watch more new movies instead of just posting links to armond white reviews of them

― a mediocre black-and-white cookie in a cellophane wrapper (hanks1ockli), Tuesday, 2 January 2007 17:30 (seventeen years ago) link

Skipping 195 messages at this point... Click here if you want to load them all.

well, at this point, i'm willing to call any movie that makes heavy use of music in the fore or middle-ground a musical of sorts. it's not meet me in st louis, but no one makes meet me in st louis anymore. does MBB involve dialogue spontaneously turning into song? no. but it does have at least three musical numbers involving the leads, one of which is sung, and one of which is quasi-rapped.

― nuneb (nuneb), Wednesday, 3 January 2007 20:34 (seventeen years ago) link

"not a great film, but ... an interesting one, which is almost as rare."

The same can be said for many Ebert reviews. I'll miss him almost as much as I miss the late Spielberg.

― Eric H. (Eric H.), Wednesday, 3 January 2007 20:41 (seventeen years ago) link

I don't think anyone saw the Outkast movie, including me.

I did. I liked it although it felt more like one long video than a movie.

― Ms Misery (MsMisery), Wednesday, 3 January 2007 20:42 (seventeen years ago) link

I second the notion to eye-gouge anyone related to the movie musical Grease.

― Allyzay heard you got beat up in a club. (Allyzay Eisenschefter), Wednesday, 3 January 2007 21:30 (seventeen years ago) link

Also, I don't think either Velvet Goldmine or Mo' Better Blues should be classed as musicals--I mean, you are now treading the line in which anything that depicts a character singing is a musical, which would make Fire Walk With Me a musical if you really want to be technical. It seems to be an abuse of the term. Is Labrynth a musical? David Bowie sings that UTTERLY RIDICULOUS SONG WTF ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT in it!

― Allyzay heard you got beat up in a club. (Allyzay Eisenschefter), Wednesday, 3 January 2007 21:32 (seventeen years ago) link

You remind me of the babe...

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 3 January 2007 21:33 (seventeen years ago) link

does Fire Walk With Me have several musical numbers and nearly continuous music in the fore or middle ground? if so, I'm willing to deem it a musical.

― nuneb (nuneb), Wednesday, 3 January 2007 21:34 (seventeen years ago) link

(somehow I doubt it has the structure of a musical, but maybe I shouldn't be surprised if it does?)

― nuneb (nuneb), Wednesday, 3 January 2007 21:35 (seventeen years ago) link

The entirety of Twin Peaks has repeated musical numbers by Julie Cruise and nearly continuous music, have you not seen then?

I think your definition is terrible, to be very honest with you.

― Allyzay heard you got beat up in a club. (Allyzay Eisenschefter), Wednesday, 3 January 2007 21:36 (seventeen years ago) link

I've never seen Fire Walk With Me

― nuneb (nuneb), Wednesday, 3 January 2007 21:38 (seventeen years ago) link

Is Labrynth a musical? David Bowie sings that UTTERLY RIDICULOUS SONG WTF ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT in it!

More movies should have songs about kicking babies in them.

― The Many Faces of Gordon Jump (Leon), Wednesday, 3 January 2007 21:38 (seventeen years ago) link

well, at this point, i'm willing to call any movie that makes heavy use of music in the fore or middle-ground a musical of sorts.

I'm not. By that logic, the movie "High Fidelity" and "Magnolia" are also musicals.

― Jesus Dan (dan perry), Wednesday, 3 January 2007 21:38 (seventeen years ago) link

I'm stickin to my definition.

― Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 3 January 2007 21:40 (seventeen years ago) link

'The musical film is a film genre in which several songs sung by the characters are interwoven into the narrative. The songs are used to advance the plot or develop the film's characters. A subgenre of the musical film is the musical comedy, which includes a strong element of humour as well as the usual music, dancing and storyline.'

Though at the top of the page it does say 'The factual accuracy of this article or section is disputed.'

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 3 January 2007 21:42 (seventeen years ago) link

If characters sing/dance instead of crying or killing somebody it's a musical.

― Dr M (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 3 January 2007 21:42 (seventeen years ago) link

as opposed to a KILLSICAL

― a mediocre black-and-white cookie in a cellophane wrapper (hanks1ockli), Wednesday, 3 January 2007 21:43 (seventeen years ago) link

Little Shop of Horrors?

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 3 January 2007 21:44 (seventeen years ago) link

Silence of the Lambs musical to thread.

― Allyzay heard you got beat up in a club. (Allyzay Eisenschefter), Wednesday, 3 January 2007 21:45 (seventeen years ago) link

In West Side Story people get to sing, dance, AND kill, lucky PRs :D

― Allyzay heard you got beat up in a club. (Allyzay Eisenschefter), Wednesday, 3 January 2007 21:45 (seventeen years ago) link

instead of/in addition to

― Dr M (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 3 January 2007 21:46 (seventeen years ago) link

West Side Story=apotheosis of the musical form

― horseshoe (horseshoe), Wednesday, 3 January 2007 21:46 (seventeen years ago) link

Don't forget "Sweeny Todd" and "Assassins"!

(xpost: oh poo, you're no fun sometimes)

― Jesus Dan (dan perry), Wednesday, 3 January 2007 21:46 (seventeen years ago) link

Assassins=love...apparently I like my musicals bloody.

― horseshoe (horseshoe), Wednesday, 3 January 2007 21:47 (seventeen years ago) link

"sometimes"!!

― Allyzay heard you got beat up in a club. (Allyzay Eisenschefter), Wednesday, 3 January 2007 21:47 (seventeen years ago) link

(also total agreement with "West Side Story" as the bomb-diggety musical; see also "Candide")

― Jesus Dan (dan perry), Wednesday, 3 January 2007 21:47 (seventeen years ago) link

come to think of it, I never really fully made my point yesterday about melisma in opera. regardless of whether the origin of e.g. bel canto and baroque cadenzas is with the composer, and regardless of how common embellishment and elaboration are today, and regardless of questions of authenticity/rockism, my fundamental point was that melisma - the repetition of a single syllable over several notes - is commonplace in all operatic composition in a way that is rather alien to contemporary pop songwriting. thus, the existence of melisma in opera is irrelevant here, unless you want to use "melisma" to refer only to operatic melisma that you deem analogous to the melismatic vocal style in contemporary pop. at which point, you get into all the other issues above.

By that logic, the movie "High Fidelity" and "Magnolia" are also musicals.

i've never seen high fidelity, but i just saw magnolia for the first time, and don't remember any music except for the sudden/random breaks into song that are (?) shakey's signifiers for musical-ness. i'm not sure what i'd call that, myself.

― nuneb (nuneb), Wednesday, 3 January 2007 21:48 (seventeen years ago) link

Yeah, pretty much WSS is the apotheosis. Does anything else have as pivotal a place?

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 3 January 2007 21:49 (seventeen years ago) link

http://www.musical.it/bottega/images/Steve_Martin_dentista.JPG

― Allyzay heard you got beat up in a club. (Allyzay Eisenschefter), Wednesday, 3 January 2007 21:49 (seventeen years ago) link

That's not meant to be a reply to Ned.

― Allyzay heard you got beat up in a club. (Allyzay Eisenschefter), Wednesday, 3 January 2007 21:49 (seventeen years ago) link

I was very disappointed to learn of (and see) the non-musical Little Shop of Horrors.

― Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 3 January 2007 21:50 (seventeen years ago) link

Assassins=love...apparently I like my musicals bloody.

Me too.

― The Many Faces of Gordon Jump (Leon), Wednesday, 3 January 2007 21:50 (seventeen years ago) link

So how many of us had dentists who knew the song Ally posted the still from and loved singing it at times? (I had two.)

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 3 January 2007 21:50 (seventeen years ago) link

All stage plays should be bloody. Shakespeare started off with things like Titus Andronicus and just got more restrained about it.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 3 January 2007 21:51 (seventeen years ago) link

Jesus Ned, wtf kind of dentists did you have?

― Allyzay heard you got beat up in a club. (Allyzay Eisenschefter), Wednesday, 3 January 2007 21:53 (seventeen years ago) link

Slightly disturbing ones. This was the eighties and I had no immediate say over what dentists I chose. (Thankfully they didn't do this ALL the time.)

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 3 January 2007 21:54 (seventeen years ago) link

These were military doctors, weren't they.

― Allyzay heard you got beat up in a club. (Allyzay Eisenschefter), Wednesday, 3 January 2007 21:55 (seventeen years ago) link

Gabbneb, have you ever seen the sheet music for pop music? Unless it's aimed at pre-teens, they write all that shit out; the wierd off-rhythms, the blue notes, the melismatic sections... it's all pretty much there (which is another reason why so many covers follow the recorded originals as closely as they do).

(xpost: The rest of the time they sang "D'Ya Think I'm Sexy" to him.)

― Jesus Dan (dan perry), Wednesday, 3 January 2007 21:56 (seventeen years ago) link

These were military doctors, weren't they.

Strangely enough, no. But in military towns, so...

The rest of the time they sang "D'Ya Think I'm Sexy" to him.

The reasons for not thinking much about my youth grow ever clearer to me.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 3 January 2007 21:57 (seventeen years ago) link

Ugh what a horrible image I am getting in my head.

― Allyzay heard you got beat up in a club. (Allyzay Eisenschefter), Wednesday, 3 January 2007 21:58 (seventeen years ago) link

not in a very long time, but i'm not sure i understand the point. most pop music (pop being a very broad term here) has little to none of the sort of melisma employed regularly in opera, no? stuff sung in the melismatic vocal style, even if the music is written out, is just a fraction of the pop music out there.

― nuneb (nuneb), Wednesday, 3 January 2007 21:59 (seventeen years ago) link

one month passes...

This thread was missed.

― Eric H. (Eric H.), Saturday, 17 February 2007 08:34 (seventeen years ago) link

four years pass...

fyi the original soundtrack is unbelievably badass, in case you didn't know

― OH NOES, Wednesday, 15 February 2012 15:32 (twelve years ago) link

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