Liberal leadership post-mortem thread

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I'll bet Kennedy runs in the next federal election and (assuming he wins) could be an important player in Dion's cabinet (assuming they win).

Dion owes Kennedy bigtime for delivering almost all of his delegates on the third ballot.

I can't wait for the fur to fly during the federalism discussion during the next round of election debates. Particularly in the French debate.

A few weeks back, on real-ILX, I posted a link to a poll on the leadership candidates. IIRC, Dion had the best approval rating -- IOW, Ignatieff and Rae had their supporters but also had a lot of enemies. Dion was fairly well-liked across the board, he didn't really have a lot of enemies, which is a huge help when it comes to picking up support from delegates once their #1 candidate drops out.

though he seems like he may have been close to the sponsorship scandal given that he was intergovtal affairs minister at the time

The fact that this was virtually never mentioned during the whole campaign shows that fundamentally, nobody really gave a crap about the sponsorship scandal and that it was stupid for voters to "punish" the Libs by voting them out of govt in the first place.

No Time Before Time (Barry Barry), Tuesday, 5 December 2006 13:38 (seventeen years ago) link

I don't follow your logic, homefry. How does the Libs not giving a crap about the sponsorship ordeal make the voters (including me I guess) "stupid" for "punishing" the Liberals?

Thermo Thinwall (Thermo Thinwall), Tuesday, 5 December 2006 16:08 (seventeen years ago) link

"nobody caring about the scandal" = the public, mainly. The Libs obviously cared, we had two elections that were basically referendums over whether to forgive them or not.

You'd think, given that Dion will very likely become the PM at some point, that there'd be a rash of editorials proclaiming "How can we trust the Libs if they elect a leader with possible ties to the scandal? They haven't learned their lesson!" (i.e. the whole point of the January election was to teach the Libs a lesson, right?). However, this never seemed to be an issue and now everyone is giving big ups to Dion.

My stance has always been that the Libs screwed up badly and mismanaged our money, but despite this, were still the best party for running the country. Punishing a party just for the sake of punishing them or using directionless reasoning a la "it's been 13 years, so it's time for a change for the sake of having a change" is the type of stupid thought that brought us PM Stephen Harper.

(I know that YOU didn't vote him, I'm talking about the general voting populace)

No Time Before Time (Barry Barry), Tuesday, 5 December 2006 17:00 (seventeen years ago) link

No, I did not - but at the same time was saying he (ie another party) being in power would be good for the country. AND I don't think the idea that a brief (lets hope) change in the upper echelons of power is "directionless reasoning". 13 years the Liberals were in power and it may sounds cliched at his point, thanks to Harper, but I do think they were getting arrogant, as a party. They signed us up for Kyoto and proceeded to do almost nothing beyond that for the environment. That being one example of many, imho, where they were just getting lazy, policy wise.

I don't think it was at all flawed logic in the slightest that a change of the guard would be a healthy thing for our nation. Although I was more of a proponent of that idea when I thought Harper would keep at least some of his promises that weren't based on hating teh fags!

Thermo Thinwall (Thermo Thinwall), Tuesday, 5 December 2006 17:28 (seventeen years ago) link

The Cretien Liberals might have been getting arrogant, but Martin almost completely turned over the cabinet when he came into power. We'll never know how that new bunch might have fared in the long run because of the scandal and the two elections. I think letting those guys govern would have been a better option than electing Harper!

I see what you're saying -- in the long run, change can be better because the opposition freshens up their approach and makes changes that they wouldn't have been compelled to make otherwise. I'm just not sure that it's worth suffering through a crap government to produce those results ... isn't that how the Harris Conservatives were swept into power?

No Time Before Time (Barry Barry), Tuesday, 5 December 2006 18:40 (seventeen years ago) link

Like Thermo, I'd also assumed that a Tory (Do we still call them that now that they're not Progressive anymore?) minority would just more or less administer things efficiently for 2 years without rocking the boat with anything too far right. I've started second-guessing myself. (NB I voted NDP of course.) I did give a crap about the sponsorship scandal FWIW.

(I actually think that many Ontarians supported Harris' "Common Sense Revolution" at the time though.)

sundarsubramanian (SundarS), Tuesday, 5 December 2006 19:34 (seventeen years ago) link

Ya - Harris was more about Ontario being in the fiscal shitter than anything else.

Thermo Thinwall (Thermo Thinwall), Tuesday, 5 December 2006 20:57 (seventeen years ago) link

... as opposed to when the Harris govt left office?

Again, it's all about who can govern most competently! When one party screws up, it doesn't mean that the other parties won't screw it up even worse!

No Time Before Time (Barry Barry), Wednesday, 6 December 2006 08:33 (seventeen years ago) link

So your point is there was no reason to vote out the Ontario Tories? ;p

Thermo Thinwall (Thermo Thinwall), Wednesday, 6 December 2006 15:15 (seventeen years ago) link


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