Magazine/website/record store BEST OF 2011 end-of-year list pile-up

Interesting to see Frank Ocean at no.3 in the Guardian. I suspected there'd be an Odd-Future-related one in the top five. I'd imagine Katy B and PJ Harvey would be no.2 and no.1.

Quite surprised at how badly the Sandwell District album has done - possibly in part due to the small release at the end of 2010, but at least RA clearly considered it, but it didn't get into their top 20.

i can't put sandwell district on any of my ballots. discogs says very clearly the version i've been loving is a 2010 thing. if i disregard that then i open the floodgates to every other dec 2010 album.

i was surprised at frank ocean on the guardian list. i'm kind of perplexed by frank ocean love in general. he is just not very special and he CAN'T SING!!!!!!!!!! is it that he's "sensitive"? critics : frank ocean :: x factor voters : matt cardle?

Yeah the Sandwell thing of only putting out 300 (?) copies one week before the end of 2010 and then releasing a less good version on CD in 2011 almost seems calculated to avoid appearing on year-end lists. That said, I don't know how many people actually heard it in 2010.

LWE 10-6

10. Todd Terje, “Snooze 4 Love"
09. Ital, “Ital’s Theme”
08. Spekter, “Pipe Bomb”
07. Gesloten Cirkel, “Yamagic”
06. D’Marc Cantu, “Set Free”

re:Pipe Bomb - I know its the way things work but feels like this was a shoe-in only because it was a one sided 12 and on theo's label (and a bit because specter's records were so overlooked in previous years)

i was surprised at frank ocean on the guardian list. i'm kind of perplexed by frank ocean love in general. he is just not very special and he CAN'T SING!!!!!!!!!! is it that he's "sensitive"? critics : frank ocean :: x factor voters : matt cardle?

― degas-dirty monet (lex pretend), Thursday, 15 December 2011 08:58 (1 hour ago) Bookmark Permalink

Err... You're not gonna like this, but I don't think it's so much to do with his music as the fact his whole angle makes him more saleable to more rock-oriented audiences - i.e. the OFWGKTA association, lyrics about Coachella, how he calls himself a "singer-songwriter" rather than an R'n'B artist (which is what he is, really), sampling Radiohead and the Eagles, the "homegrown" element of the music. It's R'n'B for hipsters, not popheads and sadly that's what gets props on non-specialist lists like the Guardian's.

i kind of knew that but it's nice to have someone else spell it out so i don't get "lex whingeing about the same things again" thrown back at me

i'm listening to the goapele album and it's just so gorgeous, light and crisp and melodies for days and her voice is, like, right up in the sky. and yet critics prefer to hole up in frank ocean's horrible bedroom

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kRn2DAggPEE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8C8br28So7U

i got sent this the other day. i'll check it out.

Frank Ocean easily my favourite album of the year. I am not a hipster, but then again I'm also not really a true r'n'b fan either.

Well, that's the point really. I was using "hipster" in its widest sense. The Lex is obviously truly invested in r'n'b and gets frustrated with critics fawning over this spruced up, watered down, crossover stuff when in his experience there's much better stuff out there that doesn't have to pander to rock audiences. And he's right - there are probably dozens of great r'n'b albums out this year that are better than Frank Ocean. But for the average rock fan, only really dipping their toe into the r'n'b ahem, "ocean", it's stuff like The Weeknd/F.O. etc that will act as a gateway to greater things. I think there are now plenty of indie/rock kids out there who are ready and willing to diversify and explore other styles, but for whom diving straight into the deep end of r'n'b is just a little outside their comfort zones. When an artist is presented in the way of Frank Ocean, it doesn't feel like such a leap and hopefully this will lead to further exploration: "Well I can deal with Frank Ocean, how about The-Dream" and onwards...

Funny you should end on that note cos, mainly thanks to ILX/Lex, I really love The-Dream also. V much liked the new Anthony Hamilton as well. I think that so far I've had a much harder time connecting with some of the female led acts he has recommended and I think I'll try harder on that front next year. Not keen on the Weeknd tho (I've only heard the 'happy house' one tbf)

Diddy-Dirty Money was my favourite album of last year as well, by far. Not sure if that counts as hip hop or r'n'b. Well both I guess.

I'm no r'n'b exponent either to be honest. I generally try to get as much as I can from as many styles as possible, but I admit I'm one of those people who finds a lot of r'n'b a barrier, so yeah I did like the Frank Ocean album, and admittedly the Weeknd album - but I kind of know that these are a bit boring and probably not the "right" things to listen to. I'm the equivalent of the punk rock kid who only listens to Sum 41 and Green Day I guess. It's why it's good to have huge advocates like the Lex around on ILM, because even though his tone can come of as maybe a bit gripey, even scolding, it galvanises people like me into checking out things that don't necessarily pander to my preconceived values.

^^^^^^^^^^^^
I often feel like my musical tastes would v often make the Lex roll his damn eyes or kiss his teeth, but there is also so much stuff that he broadly approves of that I now unabashedly love thanks to his championing of it.

I really believe that one of the best things about music in 2011 is the fact there are no longer these big tribal barriers between styles, and you will happily see e.g. screamo kids getting into dubstep, or indie kids getting into r'n'b, and that this isn't even an exception to the rule anymore. If you have access to an iPod and an internet connection, there's no reason you can't listen to any style of music, and that's why it's largely crossover artists - ones who bridge the gap between pop/rock/dance or commercial/underground: Katy B, Odd Future, Skrillex etc who are making an impression on people. And I know people bitch about many of these - Skrillex not being "proper dubstep" or whatever, but think about how many people are being introduced to dance music via his records and what this means for the future of music. Big tings for the rest of the decade, I guess.

I'm not all that convinced about the concept of gateway records/artists but have no problem with a thing not being a "proper version" of a thing

I suppose it does in a way explain the rapid rise and subsequent fall of certain kinds of artists though - once people either go through a door, or retreat from whence they came, leaving the artist in a limbo area

Yeah, the gateway thing doesn't really ring true for me either. Especially when a lot of fans of, say, The Weeknd frame their enjoyment of them in terms of their opposition to mainstream R&B

xpost what kinds of artists do you mean?

Yeah, the gateway thing doesn't really ring true for me either. Especially when a lot of fans of, say, The Weeknd frame their enjoyment of them in terms of their opposition to mainstream R&B

― Number None, Thursday, 15 December 2011 11:37 (12 seconds ago) Bookmark Permalink

Yes, but it's still getting people out of their comfort zones. Sure a lot of Weeknd fans will say dumb shit like "It's r'n'b music, but, like, good, y'know?", but (and here's hoping) they'll stop swimming in the kiddie pool after a while and start exploring other things. That's how tastes evolve - more often than not it's not about being hit round the head by something that challenges every idea and value you hold about what makes something "good".

And the people listening to The Weeknd, I'm glad to say, aren't doing it in an ironic way. It's not like they're saying "ooh look at me, I'm listening to that r'n'b nonsense, what a loveable rogue I am". It's being treated with reverence most of the time. There was so much posturing and post-modernism going on in the last decade, particularly with the whole eighties revival thing and it's nice to be getting away from much of that IMO.

I'm not all that convinced about the concept of gateway records/artists but have no problem with a thing not being a "proper version" of a thing

Yeah, as much as it pains me to say this, AW absolutely OTM.

Because I know that I tend to get snobby about ppl getting into, say, BRMC and me being all "that's not proper dronerock!" - but if someone made the same protest about me previously saying that the great thing about Busted was, that they were bubblegum punk, and utterly *not* a gateway into "proper" (i.e. shit emo) punk.

Like it for what it is, but don't pretend that you're getting out of your paddling pool when it comes to comfort zones of Other music.

I dunno, obv this is my perception. I think the difference these days is we now have access to much more music online that it's really easy to discover stuff via Last.FM, YouTube, Spotify etc. If you're interested in one thing, it's likely you'll come across something else sooner or later. Who's to say lots of kids didn't get into Green Day through Busted and then into NOFX and then Black Flag and Minor Threat and Converge?

Metal Hammer Top 50 albums of 2011

50 Trap Them - Darker Handcraft
49 Primus - Green Naugahyde
48 Arabrot - Solar Anus
47 Hammers Of Misfortune - 17th Street
46 Cerebral Ballzy - S/T
45 YOB - Atma
44 TessaracT - One
43 Steven Wilson - Grace For Drowning
42 Vallenfyre - A Fragile King
41 Times Of Grace - Hymns Of A Broken Man
40 The Dwarves - The Dwarves Are Born Again
39 Anvil - Juggernaut Of Justice
38 Ken Mode - Venerable
37 Altar Of Plagues - Mammal
36 Blood Ceremony - Living With The Ancients
35 Will Haven - Voir Dire
34 Skeletonwitch - Forever Abomination
33 Wormrot - Dirge
32 Nightwish - Imaginaerum
31 Devin Townsend - Ghost
30 Dream Theater - A Dramatic Turn Of Events
29 Solstafir - Svartir Sandar
28 Foo Fighters - Wasted Light
27 Trivium - In Waves
26 Jane's Addiction - The Great Escape Artist
25 In Solitude - The World,The Flesh,The Devil
24 The Damned Things - Ironiclast
23 Pentagram - Last Rites
22 Autopsy - Macabre Eternal
21 Steel Panther - Balls Out
20 Motorhead - The World Is Yours
19 Black Stone Cherry - Between The Devil & The Deep Blue Sea
18 Ancient VVisdom - A Godlike Inferno
17 Primordial - Redemption At The Puritan's Hand
16 Wolves In The Throne Room - Celestial Lineage
15 Devildriver - Beast
14 Amebix - Sonic Mass
13 The Devil's Blood - The Thousandfold Epicentre
12 Gentleman's Pistols - At Her Majesty's Pleasure
11 Evile - Five Serpents Teeth
10 Graveyard - Nuclear Blast
9 Skindred - Union Black
8 Black Spiders - Sons Of The North
7 Devin Townsend Project - Deconstruction
6 Hell - Human Remains
5 Megadeth - Thirt3en
4 Opeth - Heritage
3 Anthrax - Worship Music
2 Machine Head - Unto The Locust

1 MASTODON - THE HUNTER

Why would it be a ~good~ thing if kids got "into Green Day through Busted and then into NOFX and then Black Flag and Minor Threat and Converge"

That's just rockist bullshit. Who's to say that it's not equally valid if kids got into Backstreet Boys, the Jackson 5 and the Supremes through their bubblegum influences?

It's not the path that gets you there that's the wrong thing. It's the inherent privileging of one over the other that is problematic.

Unlike the Lex, I have no problem with people liking indie-flavoured R&B, so long as they don't pretend that Indie is somehow inherently *better* than R&B. It just isn't.

I think you're putting quite a lot of words in my mouth here TBH. Busted isn't even part of this, as they're not current to the trend I'm talking about.

i am really happy that people are getting into any music at all through me!

Especially when a lot of fans of, say, The Weeknd frame their enjoyment of them in terms of their opposition to mainstream R&B

yeah this is the crux of it for me - or not just mainstream r&b, just other r&b, including the traditional stuff and the genuinely weird sideways alt-stuff.

also i think it's perfectly legit to call out grown-ass professional critics who privilege indie-r&b and either dismiss or don't bother with much else (as opposed to just casual listeners, who - sigh - can listen to what they want, as long as they don't make stupid arguments for it to me à la the above)

it does make me SERIOUSLY smh to see EOY write-ups of frank ocean and the weeknd framed in terms of "omg, you'll never guess, this was a free download on the internet and yet we paid attention" because none of those people paid attention to dawn richard or nikkiya DID THEY

everything's a free download on the internet nowadays

dog latin how many of the metal hammer list have you heard?

im surprised uncle acid and the deadbeats missed out on both Kerrang and Metal Hammers lists

xxp ha yeah I get the impression that a lot of writers are still getting to grips w/ the idea of *normal listeners* being able to lawfully acquire albums for free

JR: none of 'em. woops! i was interested to hear the arabrot album though. oh i think i've scraped the surface of the opeth record. seriously, i only listen to a minutiae of the amount of metal i used to - this is mostly due to who i live with and who i hang out with these days as opposed to anything else.

dog latin is getting old!

(This is where JR and I have ~differences~ but I am really uncomfortable with the way that "Metal" has been raised to that position of automatic rockist privilege that "Indie" used to occupy 20 years ago, now that "Indie" has become completely mainstream. But this is challops and I know it.)

also i think it's perfectly legit to call out grown-ass professional critics who privilege indie-r&b and either dismiss or don't bother with much else (as opposed to just casual listeners, who - sigh - can listen to what they want, as long as they don't make stupid arguments for it to me à la the above)

― degas-dirty monet (lex pretend), Thursday, 15 December 2011 12:02 (11 minutes ago) Bookmark Permalink

This isn't particular to r'n'b either, but it's just the way things are for a lot of genres outside the general pop/rock domain. For some reason Mastodon became the go-to metal band for non-metal critics to write about a while back. They're a good band, but are they THE BEST? Probably not. Then you've got Liturgy - a black metal band who dress as hipsters - and as you can imagine they have SCORN poured over them by so-called "true" black metal types who see them as an insult to their traditions. But is it bad that Liturgy (who I haven't heard yet, but understand are pretty good) get reviewed in Pitchfork, but not Weakling? I wouldn't say it's fair but if it means indie kids might be tempted to check out a bit of metal for a change, then I'm all for it.

dog latin is getting old!

― Minga Frump (Jimmy Riddle), Thursday, 15 December 2011 12:14 (8 minutes ago) Bookmark Permalink

Yes, yes. Also to do with getting to listen to music for a maximum of 2-3 hours a day on weekdays, and wanting to cram as much in as possible. And having a girlfriend who's studying, neighbours and paper-thin-walls etc. I hate listening to metal quietly, so it ends up being placed on the back burner. A real shame!

I know metal encompasses a variety of styles but interesting that it gets lists of 50 and over from its dedicated mags. Anything else with the same monolithic label (hip-hop, country, dance/electronic, even 'indie' lol) had lists that extensive from dedicated channels (may be examples upthread that i missed)?

This is where JR and I have ~differences~ but I am really uncomfortable with the way that "Metal" has been raised to that position of automatic rockist privilege that "Indie" used to occupy 20 years ago, now that "Indie" has become completely mainstream.

Huh?

I like Liturgy a lot and have listened to as much black metal this year as almost anything else but I don't think you could get me to actually care about black metal 'culture' being 'belittled' if you put a gun to my head

Yes, it's absolute bollocks isn't it? If the music's good, why complain?

also Weakling are kind of indie-friendly as the genre goes, P4K would prolly write about them if they reformed tomorrow tbh

xp it's not so much that as 'what a disaster for a bunch of mostly white male self-proclaimed misanthropes'

Well, I think it's also because BM fans don't see why Liturgy should be given the upper hand just because they dress in casual clothes. I can imagine there's also a sentiment of tokenism here, Liturgy appealing to "in it for a minute" fans, or whatever.

Then you've got Liturgy - a black metal band who dress as hipsters - and as you can imagine they have SCORN poured over them by so-called "true" black metal types who see them as an insult to their traditions. But is it bad that Liturgy (who I haven't heard yet, but understand are pretty good) get reviewed in Pitchfork, but not Weakling? I wouldn't say it's fair but if it means indie kids might be tempted to check out a bit of metal for a change, then I'm all for it.

yeah Liturgy are scorned by some for his 'essays' and youtube videos.
Weakling probably preceded pitchfork hence no coverage.

I'm so out of touch...

you should hang out in metal threads then
and get a pair of headphones