Let's talk about Ciara's Evolution

ah okay, approval granted, carry on

(haha Matt)

I've actually started listening to Loose again and noticing how nuanced some of the performances are

100% OTM; given the way everyone on ILM bigged up the club tracks and bashed everything that was ballady or mid-tempo, I was shocked both at how consistently good that whole album is AND by how much of a vocal an emotional chameleon Nelly is on the album (the vocals on "Showtime" sound like a completely different person from what she's doing on "Te Busque", which is totally different from "Say It Right" which is distinct from "Promiscuous" which sounds nothing like "Maneater", etc).

The Aaliyah comparison is interesting because I think both Aaliyaha and Tweet had much stronger vocal presence than Ciara (with Tweet being the strongest). My biggest problem with Ciara is that I feel like she's a completely uninteresting cypher; my enjoyment of her songs are solely tied to how much I like the beat as opposed to anything she's doing.

(The Marvin Gaye story falls down somewhat in this context when you remember that Marvin Gaye was a phenomenally flexible singer who did a bunch of different songs in a bunch of different styles, both strong and tender, whereas Ciara has made the beginnings of her career by singing every song put out for the public like Sade vocalizing into a pillow.)

i didn't mean to compare the two that way - merely observing that sometimes stretching against someone's abilities can be a good way to obtain a more evocative performance.

Oh, that I totally agree with! My point about Ciara is that it seems like every song where she sings outside of a range that goes from the F above middle C to the C above that stretches against her abilities, so I'm not sure that lionizing her for sounding like she's desperately reaching for a note on a particular song is warranted.

I wouldn't deny that Ciara is limited as a singer and there's a shitload of songs where she sounds like it too. I just think it works on "Promise". Difference of opinion anyway. ("Oh" is also a weirdly compelling vocal performance, albeit very differently).

And, y'know, obviously good vocal performance is a huge part of R&B and it goes towards why Teedra Moses > Aaliyah > Ciara. On a song by song basis though there's no necessary reason why vocal chops will push someone further over the line.