Dear ILE - a plea

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oh in that case

RJG (RJG), Thursday, 15 February 2007 10:58 (seventeen years ago) link

I guess the trouble is that there was a time when ILE felt like sinister, julio (i'm guessing - I was never on sinister, obv). remember 2002, FAPs etc etc?

obviously that was never going to last forever - it's 5 years later and ILX is huge now. I think it is true that a lot of ILE has turned into a huge zing-fest, which is a bit if it makes people ignore the really good bits of ILX - eg for me the dance/jazz/experimental threads on ILM, the noise boards, and on the rare occasions I remember they exist the books and cookery boards (which I agree could easily be moved back to ILE - see eg the ILE pynchon thread).

i've just installed killfile, and I rather suspect that's going to improve ILE a lot for me. perhaps some other people here should try it too.

toby (tsg20), Thursday, 15 February 2007 10:58 (seventeen years ago) link

Barrys back:D

Subtractive Synthesis (Subtractive Synthesis), Thursday, 15 February 2007 10:58 (seventeen years ago) link

some x-posts

I was *so* convinced that first ailsa post was Grimly Fiendish

hey, so was i for the first couple of lines. i thought i must have got up in the middle of the night and done it. and started using capitals.

although then i started to disagree with bits of it and got confused.

there's absolutely nothing anyone can add at this stage that will act as a panacea for all ILX's perceived ills. but i do think this thread is fulfulling a useful purpose, insofar as it's allowing people to get shit off their chest in a marginally more constructive manner than usual. and mark's original comment is absolutely OTM: he's not trying to turn it into alt.hug, just pointing out that, you know, perhaps we shouldn't spend all our time jumping up and down and shouting at each other.

anyway. my thoughts. briefly.

1) things change. ILX has changed quite a bit since i started posting in late 2004. such is life, eh? as someone (dan, i think) said wisely upthread, nobody - not mods, not admins and certainly not thread-starters - can legislate for other people's behaviour. trying to impose rules of engagement is a complete waste of time.

similarly, any "balkanisation" or otherwise is just part of the process - like it or not, ILX is now much bigger than the sum of its parts, and is going to evolve in ways you might not like. tough.

it's an internet message board. lighten up, people.


2) sometimes people say twattish things. sometimes a couple of posters will get into a fight. jon's daft louis/google thread might have overstepped a mark, but why does the whole fucking board have to get involved? we have mods. they sorted it, quickly and efficiently. louis handled it all very well. end of story. move on, there's nothing to see.

it's an internet message board. lighten up, people.

3) sometimes threads go off at tangents. sometimes those tangents are irritating and silly and seem to be nothing but zings. sometimes that kills threads completely. sometimes it makes them brilliant.

it's an internet message board. lighten up, people.

4) the problem, if i may be so bold, isn't that people are getting "bullied". that's a hell of an emotive word to be throwing around. it's simply that there's been a bit of low-level sniping and zinginess and suddenly we're acting like it's armageddon. it's not.

it's an internet message board. lighten up, people.

5) like i said on another thread recently, when someone said: "people are being nasty and no-one's doing anything" - i am. i'm ignoring it. i'm glad so many others feel the same. if individual posters (louis, dog latin etc) think they're being hard done by, they should raise it with the mods. the rest of us should stop piling in and shouting FITE FITE FITE.

it's an internet message board. we all care about it too much. that's nice for us. now let's get some perspective, eh?

grimly fiendish (simon), Thursday, 15 February 2007 11:11 (seventeen years ago) link

don't think I've ever seen the louis guy really claiming to feel hard done by and I don't think the dog latin guy had any grounds for feeling hard done by

but, yes, this is an internet message board. don't think we need say any more. unless says something that annoys us or we can make fun of

RJG (RJG), Thursday, 15 February 2007 11:15 (seventeen years ago) link

"it's an internet message board. lighten up, people."
I hate that attitude.
It's as though the people on the other end of messages aren't real, that falling out of touch in the eventual spread of people to other places as the suck rolls in is any different from losing touch with a long-time pen-pal.
People are real, what they say is real, so tell me: why shouldn't I care about people?

Geza T iz tha Rainy G. Toronado (The GZeus), Thursday, 15 February 2007 11:16 (seventeen years ago) link

it's like posting to brick wall

RJG (RJG), Thursday, 15 February 2007 11:18 (seventeen years ago) link

i don't care about gzeus

temporary enrique (temporary enrique), Thursday, 15 February 2007 11:20 (seventeen years ago) link

a clarification to my own post, which i think gets a bit wrapped up in its own argument.

- there's no point trying to lay down ground rules of behaviour and say: "if you post on ILX, you must act like this".

- there is every point in ignoring behaviour you don't like and not rising to it.

that's how i can be agreeing with mark's first post and then seemingly disagreeing within the space of a sentence. sorry, should have spent more time on it.

but then it's only an internet message board and ...

grimly fiendish (simon), Thursday, 15 February 2007 11:21 (seventeen years ago) link

you are right!!

RJG (RJG), Thursday, 15 February 2007 11:25 (seventeen years ago) link

Toby - Nor have I ever been on sinister, but that's the feeling I got from reading the first post on this thread.

I know that there was a good feeling about both ILM and ILE back then - but a large part of that ws in the discovery of this place, and then in looking back I always tend to remember the good bits mopre strongly. The board has over time developed as its grown in number, but like you I still get a good feeling out of some threads. I still feel that if I put some effort in it's possible to get some good convo, which is not very different from 2002, though it might be a diff kind of effort.

(I honestly can't remember how good it was to compare, just that it was very good.)

xyzzzz__ (xyzzzz__), Thursday, 15 February 2007 11:26 (seventeen years ago) link

Sheesh people, 555 posts and all this was, was a plea to just try being nicer.

nathalie (stevienixed), Thursday, 15 February 2007 11:26 (seventeen years ago) link

you are wrong!!

RJG (RJG), Thursday, 15 February 2007 11:27 (seventeen years ago) link

Heh. Most probably.

nathalie (stevienixed), Thursday, 15 February 2007 11:28 (seventeen years ago) link

Has anyone else had any problems loading this thread?

accentmonkey (accentmonkey), Thursday, 15 February 2007 11:30 (seventeen years ago) link

http://static.flickr.com/4/4834133_d23d6c8186.jpg

Ed (dali), Thursday, 15 February 2007 11:31 (seventeen years ago) link

"i don't care about gzeus

-- temporary enrique (miltonpinsk...), February 15th, 2007."
Um...you just proved otherwise in posting that...

Geza T iz tha Rainy G. Toronado (The GZeus), Thursday, 15 February 2007 11:31 (seventeen years ago) link

mind blown

temporary enrique (temporary enrique), Thursday, 15 February 2007 11:31 (seventeen years ago) link

Hope not.


oh, and I just tested. No problems loading.

Geza T iz tha Rainy G. Toronado (The GZeus), Thursday, 15 February 2007 11:33 (seventeen years ago) link

yeah, julio, I agree. I certainly think I get as much out of ilm as I did then, for instance.

lots of good advise since my first post, from grimly in particular. thinking about it more, it's not 'bullying' which ever annoys me (i'm still not sure i've ever seen any of this, tbh), but the same lame jokes again and again (which i'm hopeful the killfile will sort).

toby (tsg20), Thursday, 15 February 2007 11:34 (seventeen years ago) link

Sheesh people, 555 posts and all this was, was a plea to just try being nicer.

-- nathalie (wotwotwo...), February 15th, 2007. (later)

you are wrong!!

-- RJG (RJ...), February 15th, 2007. (later)

No, she's right. What did you think it was

It's Teatime in Buttercup Land (Maaarghk C), Thursday, 15 February 2007 11:37 (seventeen years ago) link

Totally agree on the lame jokes front.
ILG in particular(which I posted on for a while because I had just gotten back into games after almost 10 years of apathy...then quit for the most part. ILG I mean, not games) is all about sarcasm, in-jokes, and being sardonic in general.
I don't see how any of that has a place in an open forum. It just leads to cliques instead of actual groups of friends.

"No, she's right. What did you think it was "
Did you take that seriously? It was just a perfect example of what's wrong with the boards currently, and should really just be ignored.
Sarcasm cannot be properly recognised over the internet. It's also rude by nature.
This is why I only use it in private.

Geza T iz tha Rainy G. Toronado (The GZeus), Thursday, 15 February 2007 11:41 (seventeen years ago) link

The first post was that, the rest of it wasn't.

xpost

onimo (nu_onimo), Thursday, 15 February 2007 11:41 (seventeen years ago) link

You only use sarcasm in private?

onimo (nu_onimo), Thursday, 15 February 2007 11:42 (seventeen years ago) link

Sarcasm cannot be properly recognised over the internet. It's also rude by nature.
This is why I only use it in private.

what a fascinating insight, i totally agree.

temporary enrique (temporary enrique), Thursday, 15 February 2007 11:42 (seventeen years ago) link

do you think it's possible to make a plea to just try being nicer?

it wasn't 555 posts, either

crossposts

RJG (RJG), Thursday, 15 February 2007 11:43 (seventeen years ago) link

xpost
Yeah, for the most part. I suppose 'private' isn't the best word.
'Among friends or in small groups' is better.
An open forum is no place for it, though.

Geza T iz tha Rainy G. Toronado (The GZeus), Thursday, 15 February 2007 11:45 (seventeen years ago) link

if zoe espera or someone other than a lot of people had started this thread, it would have had a bit of a better chance

am sad to read that zoe espera has/had decided staying away/not posting is/was for the best. nothing much to be done, though. if you are upset/annoyed/put off, the only options, really, are (as zoe espera (amongst others) said) to stop posting or start ignoring

RJG (RJG), Thursday, 15 February 2007 11:57 (seventeen years ago) link

zoe: so maybe that shows that really what I should do is just contribute and not pay any attention to the badbits.

yes. you should. please do.

grimly fiendish (simon), Thursday, 15 February 2007 11:59 (seventeen years ago) link

im pretty down with rjg's idea of eacho of us having our own boardo w/ teh new code.. ie: chaki board, ally board, marcello board, etc. and we can just pick out who we are loving talking at internet to.

chaki (chaki), Thursday, 15 February 2007 12:00 (seventeen years ago) link

I imagine it being like myspace

RJG (RJG), Thursday, 15 February 2007 12:02 (seventeen years ago) link

But what if there was a CJ The Unruly board and nobody posted on it? My fragile ego couldn't stand the rejection.

C J (C J), Thursday, 15 February 2007 12:03 (seventeen years ago) link

i would not post on that broad.

chaki (chaki), Thursday, 15 February 2007 12:07 (seventeen years ago) link

Self-moderating individual boards?

Might be a bit of a task logistically, and goes against the idea of One Community, but given the chimerical nature of the latter it's probably what's going to end up happening.

Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Thursday, 15 February 2007 12:07 (seventeen years ago) link

i was joking, fool. rjg never even had that idea.

chaki (chaki), Thursday, 15 February 2007 12:08 (seventeen years ago) link

It's still not a bad idea, though.

Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Thursday, 15 February 2007 12:11 (seventeen years ago) link

whatever, dude! me and like 5 of my longhair, stoner friends are poiting at the screen laughing at you!

chaki (chaki), Thursday, 15 February 2007 12:13 (seventeen years ago) link

well you six all miss out when 'I Love [YOUR_NAME_HERE]' gets rolled out.

temporary enrique (temporary enrique), Thursday, 15 February 2007 12:14 (seventeen years ago) link

and it's clearly the best idea of all time.

temporary enrique (temporary enrique), Thursday, 15 February 2007 12:15 (seventeen years ago) link

I would have to ban myself

mark coleman (lovebug ), Thursday, 15 February 2007 12:16 (seventeen years ago) link

I'd probably register a couple of dozen new accounts, and chat to myself all day using different user names so I'd look like I was really popular.

C J (C J), Thursday, 15 February 2007 12:20 (seventeen years ago) link

zoe: so maybe that shows that really what I should do is just ... not pay any attention to the badbits.

yes. you should. please do.

Er, no! The problem with the ignore-the-badbits plan is that it leads to everyone squirrelling away into their own threads and boards and effectively abandoning the mainstream to the mercy of the fannies.

nobody - not mods, not admins and certainly not thread-starters - can legislate for other people's behaviour. trying to impose rules of engagement is a complete waste of time.
Ye think? Legislation is all about other people's behaviour! Do you go "oh, hey, lots of muggings in Glasgow. Ach, well, can't legislate for behaviour. If you don't like being mugged, just try and ignore them".

Then when you text your pals to come out, and nobody does because it's the fucking badlands, you mutter "ah, well, natural evolution of the city. If i don't like it, tough."

stet (stet), Thursday, 15 February 2007 12:40 (seventeen years ago) link

that is about a city

RJG (RJG), Thursday, 15 February 2007 12:45 (seventeen years ago) link

Which is a place where people interact. I'm not even going to start on his "it's just a messageboard" bolloc-- oh wait, I am. It's bollocks.

It may only exist inside computers, and it might be possible to turn it off and walk away, but it's also obviously important and personal to lots of people, and can make them laugh or cry, become sad or happy etc and is filled with lots of other people they value and care about. Why something like that's "just" anything is beyond me.

stet (stet), Thursday, 15 February 2007 12:50 (seventeen years ago) link

that is about a city

er, yes. this is ILX. it's totally, totally different. we are all, basically, intelligent people. any true sociopaths can be banned. all the rest is mere irritation.

Er, no! The problem with the ignore-the-badbits plan is that it leads to everyone squirrelling away into their own threads and boards and effectively abandoning the mainstream to the mercy of the fannies.

what fannies? people acting the tool doesn't make them fannies. it just makes them posters who are acting the tool. they've got as much right to post here as anyone else. or do you want it to be a private members' club? :/

if everyone stopped getting so hung up on other people's behaviour, this board would improve no end. like i say: if people have a genuine complaint - eg "i feel i'm being victimised/bullied" - then it's a matter for the mods. but what's happening most of the time is a pile-up of other posters going OOOH THAT'S TERRIBLE SOMEONE GOT ZINGED OOH DEAR IT'S SYSTEMATIC BULLYING I TELL YOU HEY SEE THAT POSTER OVER THERE THEY'RE A RIGHT CUNT. it's just tedious.

you're a site admin; you probably see it differently, and i appreciate that. but you can't control everybody's behaviour. you can try ... but you're going to end up with a very small board indeed.

grimly fiendish (simon), Thursday, 15 February 2007 12:56 (seventeen years ago) link

Why something like that's "just" anything is beyond me

okay: your personal investment in this is obviously way more than mine, and i'm sorry if you find my attitude glib. but i'd say the same about any other social situation, to be honest: it's just a pub/it's just a workplace/it's just a city. pragmatism 101.

i like ILX. i wouldn't post here otherwise. i care about it. i wouldn't have donated to the server fund if i didn't. and i have made a few genuine friends through this board (which is a pleasant surprise, and more than i'd ever expect of an internet forum). but the vast, vast majority of posters are simply acquaintances with whom i have only one real thing in common: we post on ILX. it's, er, just a message board. sorry.

grimly fiendish (simon), Thursday, 15 February 2007 12:59 (seventeen years ago) link

what fannies? people acting the tool doesn't make them fannies. it just makes them posters who are acting the tool. they've got as much right to post here as anyone else. or do you want it to be a private members' club? :/

And people mugging people doesn't make them muggers, it just makes them people who are mugging people? They've got as much right to roam the streets as anyone else.

if everyone stopped getting so hung up on other people's behaviour, this board would improve no end.
Q-afw-FT.

it's just a pub/it's just a workplace/it's just a city.
Which comes back to the "ach, fuck it, it's just X, why bother changing it". Yet you're the one who wants to shoot all the people who panic-buy petrol come the revolution. You're going to end up with a very small country.

stet (stet), Thursday, 15 February 2007 13:04 (seventeen years ago) link

We should have stuck with housebreakers instead of muggers for our pointless analogies.

onimo (nu_onimo), Thursday, 15 February 2007 13:06 (seventeen years ago) link

happyslappers

temporary enrique (temporary enrique), Thursday, 15 February 2007 13:06 (seventeen years ago) link

faulty rear light on bicycle

Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Thursday, 15 February 2007 13:07 (seventeen years ago) link


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