J.R. Smith has literally been shanghaied away for the foreshortened 2011-2012 NBA season: rolling ILH sandbox thread

ESPNChrisPalmer chris palmer
Better forward combo than Dirk Nowitzki + Lamar Odom?

how dumb is this dude

xp LUC LONGLEY

you could've reduced chandler's minutes by half and it wouldn't have mattered -- dude was getting swatted in the post by d wade

I can def see how w/ the proliferation of penetration-friendly rules you just need better rim protection period

lol how good was LUC LONGLEY in his prime tho? wasn't he just a slow white guy xp

the "big men win championships" thing is silly because, yeah most title teams have good big men. Most (more?) of them have elite 2 guards.

― Matt Armstrong, Sunday, December 11, 2011 11:10 AM (15 seconds ago)

this whole thing becomes sort of a tautology past a certain point

xp lol yeah he wasn't that good

you need players, is what I'm saying. You got 3 studs, you'll be there in the end.

who were the big men on MJ's teams? horace grant, rodman?

― dayo, Sunday, December 11, 2011 11:10 AM (46 seconds ago) Bookmark Permalink

the "big men win championships" thing is silly because, yeah most title teams have good big men. Most (more?) of them have elite 2 guards.

― Matt Armstrong, Sunday, December 11, 2011 11:10 AM (2 seconds ago) Bookmark Permalink

over the last ten years which is the most relevant comparison for how basketball is played now in the nba more of the champions have had defensively elite big men than elite two guards by far!

you could've reduced chandler's minutes by half and it wouldn't have mattered -- dude was getting swatted in the post by d wade

― v-shasty, Sunday, December 11, 2011 11:11 AM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark Permalink

you are being totally insane jordan, the mavs played really really good D all through out the playoffs, chandler was completely key to that

well i think the thing that throws this argument off is that the major championship teams of the past decade all had very important, good defensive big men, except basically it was just two players, shaq and tim duncan.

i think it shows us more that if you can get a historically good big man, you have a very good shot of winning the title. i'm not sure that you need some goon like tyson chandler who can't do shit on offense.

so i mean yeah ppl should prob try and get dwight howard

over the last ten years which is the most relevant comparison for how basketball is played now in the nba more of the champions have had defensively elite big men than elite two guards by far!

― Cooper Chucklebutt, Sunday, December 11, 2011 10:13 AM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark Permalink

manu, wade, kobe.

well i think the thing that throws this argument off is that the major championship teams of the past decade all had very important, good defensive big men, except basically it was just two players, shaq and tim duncan.

― v-shasty, Sunday, December 11, 2011 11:16 AM (39 seconds ago) Bookmark Permalink

JORDAN, BEN WALLACE KEVIN GARNETT AND TYSON CHANDLER ARE ON THE PHONE FOR U

kevin garnett makes my point more than it makes yours -- you should've said perkins or something

jordan was a big man?

also i think against elite opponents "rim protectors" are less important because of how often star players will get to the line -- like it doesn't matter if you have a "rim protector" vs the heat cuz wade & bron are gonna get to the line 30 times a game

a lot of rim protecting the rim that noah, gibson and asik did

what about the 04 pistons - sheed, wallace, who else? DARKO?

sorry I forgot ELDEN CAMPBELL

i think wallace's impact was less about rim protecting and more about rebounding the shit out of the ball

prob say the same about chandler too

yeah let's be real, noah is good and all, but the reason that team's defense is sick is the perimeter D.

exactly - he was not a great shotblocker xp

over the last ten years which is the most relevant comparison for how basketball is played now in the nba more of the champions have had defensively elite big men than elite two guards by far!

― Cooper Chucklebutt, Sunday, December 11, 2011 10:13 AM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark Permalink

manu, wade, kobe.

― Matt Armstrong, Sunday, December 11, 2011 11:17 AM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Permalink

1st of all manu was not by any measure elite in 03, 2nd it doesnt matter my point still stands - 10 defensive big men in ten years, 6 elite shooting guards

btw i do think this comparison is so inexact as to be prob meaningless cause like some other team couldve easily won any of those year, but still its k interesting

kevin garnett makes my point more than it makes yours -- you should've said perkins or something

― v-shasty, Sunday, December 11, 2011 11:18 AM (4 minutes ago) Bookmark Permalink

a lot of rim protecting the rim that noah, gibson and asik did

― v-shasty, Sunday, December 11, 2011 11:19 AM (3 minutes ago) Bookmark Permalink

now u are just being willfully inane

like, tyson chandler will make the knicks better, but the idea that he alone is going to cure all of their defensive ills is totally nuts

i think wallace's impact was less about rim protecting and more about rebounding the shit out of the ball

― v-shasty, Sunday, December 11, 2011 11:22 AM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Permalink

ben wallace was a DOMINANT defender

garnett is obviously a great defender, but he's also one of the best overall big men of all time -- like, duh, he was on a really good championship team. "rim protecting" is prob like the 8th most important thing that he does.

no way defense is his strongest point by far

yeah let's be real, noah is good and all, but the reason that team's defense is sick is the perimeter D.

― Matt Armstrong, Sunday, December 11, 2011 11:22 AM (3 minutes ago) Bookmark Permalink

bulls 2nd team was even better @ D than their first asik and gibson arguably the best interior D combo in the league

yeah but even "rim protecting" is not the most important thing that he does on D

disagree

bulls lost cause they only have one guy who can score, and cause bron hit a bunch of threes

it's probably the worst thing he does on D!

lol ur nuts

bulls 2nd team was even better @ D than their first asik and gibson arguably the best interior D combo in the league

― Cooper Chucklebutt, Sunday, December 11, 2011 10:27 AM (8 seconds ago) Bookmark

this is true and amazing in the regular season but both of these guys ended up being liabilities vs the heat towards the end of the series bcuz they can't do shit on offense and eventually will get called for mad fouls

he blocked .9 shots per game last year. Like Nene.

iirc at the end of game 6 they were playing kurt thomas at center

he's averaged more steals than blocks in Boston.

even in minnesota his shotblocking and rim protecting was very disappointing considering his athletic gifts.

he blocked .9 shots per game last year. Like Nene.

― Matt Armstrong, Sunday, December 11, 2011 11:30 AM (11 seconds ago) Bookmark Permalink

and he was also one million years old last year and played limited minutes

more steals than blocks in boston.

a one million year old KG would prob be one of the funniest ppl to talk to

disappointed there isn't more valuable conversation about iman shumpert happening itt

Pau Gasol career bpg: 1.7
Kevin Garnett: 1.5

man either u think blocked shots is a relevant stat or you dont matt, blocks and steals are both great, he can do both - what id suggest is looking at how much better bostons D got when he arrived, its really quite shocking - and i can tell you as someone who watched a p high % of his games while he was there including nearly every one during the championship season, protecting the rim was his #1 defensive responsibility

dayo i told you basically all you need to know about iman shumpert -- he might take 3 shots per game next season

man either u think blocked shots is a relevant stat or you dont matt, blocks and steals are both great, he can do both - what id suggest is looking at how much better bostons D got when he arrived, its really quite shocking - and i can tell you as someone who watched a p high % of his games while he was there including nearly every one during the championship season, protecting the rim was his #1 defensive responsibility

― Cooper Chucklebutt, Sunday, December 11, 2011 10:35 AM (21 seconds ago) Bookmark Permalink

He's a totally awesome full court defender. Protecting the rim is the least of his defensive assets.

possibly the only other defender who deterred layups better than garnett over the last 10+ years was duncan

j0rd ok, but I just want more excuses to see the name iman shumpert