J.R. Smith has literally been shanghaied away for the foreshortened 2011-2012 NBA season: rolling ILH sandbox thread

having a big man that stands near the basket preventing layups is undoubtedly the single biggest predictor of defensive success in the nba

undoubtedly!

i don't think nene is truly max worthy, but honestly, a gasol/nene frontcourt was as good as houston was ever going to do, bcuz they're never going to get one of these big stars, no matter how often their name is floated. they definitely could've built around that and made it to like the WCF one year.

locking people down is cool but defense the way its played in the nba today is a team operation, having a big man who can lock down the middle makes everyones job easier, ask 'defensive genius' bruce bowen abt that one

idk, i feel like tyson chandler's effect on the finals was pretty minimal for a guy that's about to get paid $50m for "protecting the rim"

"protecting the rim" is the most overvalued defensive skill there is.

― Matt Armstrong, Sunday, December 11, 2011 10:47 AM (27 seconds ago) Bookmark Permalink

it is perhaps the most important thing in the entire nba, definitely by far the single most important thing a team can do defensively

― Cooper Chucklebutt, Sunday, December 11, 2011 10:48 AM (1 minute ago)

otm, look at the magic last year

Miami Heat's awesome defense last year def. was based around Zydrunas.

the magic won two total playoff games fwiw

like deandre jordan is about to get paid a zillion dollars for "protecting the rim" but really he just blocks shots and doesn't do anything else defensively. I would rather have a guy who blocks a third as many shots and is actually capable of locking someone down.

― Matt Armstrong, Sunday, December 11, 2011 10:51 AM (2 minutes ago)

nene can't lock anyone down is the thing

"protecting the rim" is definitely important if you don't really mean "blocking shots." Blocking shots + Drawing charges, for example, is a much better metric.

well nene is pretty athletic, he's a pretty decent defender i think

nene can't lock anyone down is the thing

― k3vin k., Sunday, December 11, 2011 9:56 AM (45 seconds ago) Bookmark Permalink

I just totally disagree.

the magic won two total playoff games fwiw

― v-shasty, Sunday, December 11, 2011 10:55 AM (38 seconds ago) Bookmark Permalink

they were a top 3 in defensive efficiency while having only one above average defender on their team

the magic won two total playoff games fwiw

― v-shasty, Sunday, December 11, 2011 10:55 AM (1 minute ago)

they were like sixth in team defense and had like eight terrible defenders other than howard

howard is superman tho

i would say that that speaks more to the absurd talent of dwight howard

"protecting the rim" is definitely important if you don't really mean "blocking shots." Blocking shots + Drawing charges, for example, is a much better metric.

― Matt Armstrong, Sunday, December 11, 2011 10:57 AM (26 seconds ago) Bookmark Permalink

yeah w/e blocking shots is a bullshit stat, charges is too, its abt making people miss or chose not to attempt layups, doesnt matter how you do it

i would say that that speaks more to the absurd talent of dwight howard

― v-shasty, Sunday, December 11, 2011 10:58 AM (8 seconds ago) Bookmark Permalink

it speaks to both - like not even the best perimeter defender the world has ever seen could have that sort of effect on a team

ah ok I think we were talking past each other then. xp

well nene is pretty athletic, he's a pretty decent defender i think

― v-shasty, Sunday, December 11, 2011 10:57 AM (41 seconds ago) Bookmark Permalink

nene can't lock anyone down is the thing

― k3vin k., Sunday, December 11, 2011 9:56 AM (45 seconds ago) Bookmark Permalink

I just totally disagree.

― Matt Armstrong, Sunday, December 11, 2011 10:57 AM (35 seconds ago)

the numbers agree with me - he can't stop other centers for shit but his mobility and help defense make him a solid defender. he got murdered in the post last year

well tbf he's a PF.

http://l.yimg.com/iu/api/res/1.2/Zn1zDvH1FiuYy_3MuKb.qQ--/YXBwaWQ9eXZpZGVvO2NoPTIxNTtjcj0xO2N3PTE2NDtkeD0xO2R5PTE7Zmk9dWxjcm9wO2g9ODU7cT0xMDA7dz02NQ--/http://l.yimg.com/a/i/us/sp/v/nba/players_l/20101116/3605.jpg

which is why he's demanding to play the 4 wherever he goes this year.

he's a very good player! but he certainly should be paired with a stronger defensive big if you're going to maximize his value

he needs to be paired with a legit 7 footer.

Gasol is probably fine except against 3 or 4 teams.

When I see Nene I see a guy having a ton of success defensively except against a few 7 footers who are able to shoot over him too easily. against the shorter PFs he, yes, locks them down.

idk, i feel like tyson chandler's effect on the finals was pretty minimal for a guy that's about to get paid $50m for "protecting the rim"

― v-shasty, Sunday, December 11, 2011 10:54 AM (5 minutes ago) Bookmark Permalink

he was so key! i mean i wouldnt pay him but thats more abt his age and injury history, if there was more likelihood that hed repeat that performance hes totally worth it - look at the nba champions from the last ten years - they all have one of these guys http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_NBA_champions

I hope that the heat win a chip w/o having a legit big guy

Chandler was huge, for sure.

I hope that the heat win a chip w/o having a legit big guy

― dayo, Sunday, December 11, 2011 11:07 AM (3 seconds ago) Bookmark Permalink

its possible, but itd be a lot easier if they traded for howard

who were the big men on MJ's teams? horace grant, rodman?

the mavs won bcuz of dirk & their three point shooting

the "big men win championships" thing is silly because, yeah most title teams have good big men. Most (more?) of them have elite 2 guards.

ESPNChrisPalmer chris palmer
Better forward combo than Dirk Nowitzki + Lamar Odom?

how dumb is this dude

xp LUC LONGLEY

you could've reduced chandler's minutes by half and it wouldn't have mattered -- dude was getting swatted in the post by d wade

I can def see how w/ the proliferation of penetration-friendly rules you just need better rim protection period

lol how good was LUC LONGLEY in his prime tho? wasn't he just a slow white guy xp

the "big men win championships" thing is silly because, yeah most title teams have good big men. Most (more?) of them have elite 2 guards.

― Matt Armstrong, Sunday, December 11, 2011 11:10 AM (15 seconds ago)

this whole thing becomes sort of a tautology past a certain point

xp lol yeah he wasn't that good

you need players, is what I'm saying. You got 3 studs, you'll be there in the end.

who were the big men on MJ's teams? horace grant, rodman?

― dayo, Sunday, December 11, 2011 11:10 AM (46 seconds ago) Bookmark Permalink

the "big men win championships" thing is silly because, yeah most title teams have good big men. Most (more?) of them have elite 2 guards.

― Matt Armstrong, Sunday, December 11, 2011 11:10 AM (2 seconds ago) Bookmark Permalink

over the last ten years which is the most relevant comparison for how basketball is played now in the nba more of the champions have had defensively elite big men than elite two guards by far!

you could've reduced chandler's minutes by half and it wouldn't have mattered -- dude was getting swatted in the post by d wade

― v-shasty, Sunday, December 11, 2011 11:11 AM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark Permalink

you are being totally insane jordan, the mavs played really really good D all through out the playoffs, chandler was completely key to that

well i think the thing that throws this argument off is that the major championship teams of the past decade all had very important, good defensive big men, except basically it was just two players, shaq and tim duncan.

i think it shows us more that if you can get a historically good big man, you have a very good shot of winning the title. i'm not sure that you need some goon like tyson chandler who can't do shit on offense.

so i mean yeah ppl should prob try and get dwight howard

over the last ten years which is the most relevant comparison for how basketball is played now in the nba more of the champions have had defensively elite big men than elite two guards by far!

― Cooper Chucklebutt, Sunday, December 11, 2011 10:13 AM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark Permalink

manu, wade, kobe.

well i think the thing that throws this argument off is that the major championship teams of the past decade all had very important, good defensive big men, except basically it was just two players, shaq and tim duncan.

― v-shasty, Sunday, December 11, 2011 11:16 AM (39 seconds ago) Bookmark Permalink

JORDAN, BEN WALLACE KEVIN GARNETT AND TYSON CHANDLER ARE ON THE PHONE FOR U

kevin garnett makes my point more than it makes yours -- you should've said perkins or something

jordan was a big man?

also i think against elite opponents "rim protectors" are less important because of how often star players will get to the line -- like it doesn't matter if you have a "rim protector" vs the heat cuz wade & bron are gonna get to the line 30 times a game