drawing charges is protecting the rim. So are forcing missed layups. blocking shots is not "protecting the rim" but it's what people mean by "protecting the rim."
― Matt Armstrong, Sunday, 11 December 2011 15:50 (twelve years ago) link
the one time that KG took the wolves past the first round, it was like we had cured AIDS or some shit
― v-shasty, Sunday, 11 December 2011 15:50 (twelve years ago) link
like deandre jordan is about to get paid a zillion dollars for "protecting the rim" but really he just blocks shots and doesn't do anything else defensively. I would rather have a guy who blocks a third as many shots and is actually capable of locking someone down.
― Matt Armstrong, Sunday, 11 December 2011 15:51 (twelve years ago) link
having a big man that stands near the basket preventing layups is undoubtedly the single biggest predictor of defensive success in the nba
― Cooper Chucklebutt, Sunday, 11 December 2011 15:51 (twelve years ago) link
undoubtedly!
― Matt Armstrong, Sunday, 11 December 2011 15:52 (twelve years ago) link
i don't think nene is truly max worthy, but honestly, a gasol/nene frontcourt was as good as houston was ever going to do, bcuz they're never going to get one of these big stars, no matter how often their name is floated. they definitely could've built around that and made it to like the WCF one year.
― v-shasty, Sunday, 11 December 2011 15:53 (twelve years ago) link
locking people down is cool but defense the way its played in the nba today is a team operation, having a big man who can lock down the middle makes everyones job easier, ask 'defensive genius' bruce bowen abt that one
― Cooper Chucklebutt, Sunday, 11 December 2011 15:54 (twelve years ago) link
idk, i feel like tyson chandler's effect on the finals was pretty minimal for a guy that's about to get paid $50m for "protecting the rim"
― v-shasty, Sunday, 11 December 2011 15:54 (twelve years ago) link
"protecting the rim" is the most overvalued defensive skill there is.
― Matt Armstrong, Sunday, December 11, 2011 10:47 AM (27 seconds ago) Bookmark Permalink
it is perhaps the most important thing in the entire nba, definitely by far the single most important thing a team can do defensively
― Cooper Chucklebutt, Sunday, December 11, 2011 10:48 AM (1 minute ago)
otm, look at the magic last year
― k3vin k., Sunday, 11 December 2011 15:54 (twelve years ago) link
Miami Heat's awesome defense last year def. was based around Zydrunas.
― Matt Armstrong, Sunday, 11 December 2011 15:55 (twelve years ago) link
the magic won two total playoff games fwiw
― v-shasty, Sunday, 11 December 2011 15:55 (twelve years ago) link
― Matt Armstrong, Sunday, December 11, 2011 10:51 AM (2 minutes ago)
nene can't lock anyone down is the thing
― k3vin k., Sunday, 11 December 2011 15:56 (twelve years ago) link
"protecting the rim" is definitely important if you don't really mean "blocking shots." Blocking shots + Drawing charges, for example, is a much better metric.
― Matt Armstrong, Sunday, 11 December 2011 15:57 (twelve years ago) link
well nene is pretty athletic, he's a pretty decent defender i think
― v-shasty, Sunday, 11 December 2011 15:57 (twelve years ago) link
― k3vin k., Sunday, December 11, 2011 9:56 AM (45 seconds ago) Bookmark Permalink
I just totally disagree.
― v-shasty, Sunday, December 11, 2011 10:55 AM (38 seconds ago) Bookmark Permalink
they were a top 3 in defensive efficiency while having only one above average defender on their team
― Cooper Chucklebutt, Sunday, 11 December 2011 15:57 (twelve years ago) link
― v-shasty, Sunday, December 11, 2011 10:55 AM (1 minute ago)
they were like sixth in team defense and had like eight terrible defenders other than howard
― k3vin k., Sunday, 11 December 2011 15:57 (twelve years ago) link
howard is superman tho
― dayo, Sunday, 11 December 2011 15:58 (twelve years ago) link
i would say that that speaks more to the absurd talent of dwight howard
― v-shasty, Sunday, 11 December 2011 15:58 (twelve years ago) link
― Matt Armstrong, Sunday, December 11, 2011 10:57 AM (26 seconds ago) Bookmark Permalink
yeah w/e blocking shots is a bullshit stat, charges is too, its abt making people miss or chose not to attempt layups, doesnt matter how you do it
― Cooper Chucklebutt, Sunday, 11 December 2011 15:58 (twelve years ago) link
― v-shasty, Sunday, December 11, 2011 10:58 AM (8 seconds ago) Bookmark Permalink
it speaks to both - like not even the best perimeter defender the world has ever seen could have that sort of effect on a team
― Cooper Chucklebutt, Sunday, 11 December 2011 16:00 (twelve years ago) link
ah ok I think we were talking past each other then. xp
― Matt Armstrong, Sunday, 11 December 2011 16:00 (twelve years ago) link
― v-shasty, Sunday, December 11, 2011 10:57 AM (41 seconds ago) Bookmark Permalink
― Matt Armstrong, Sunday, December 11, 2011 10:57 AM (35 seconds ago)
the numbers agree with me - he can't stop other centers for shit but his mobility and help defense make him a solid defender. he got murdered in the post last year
― k3vin k., Sunday, 11 December 2011 16:00 (twelve years ago) link
well tbf he's a PF.
― Matt Armstrong, Sunday, 11 December 2011 16:01 (twelve years ago) link
http://l.yimg.com/iu/api/res/1.2/Zn1zDvH1FiuYy_3MuKb.qQ--/YXBwaWQ9eXZpZGVvO2NoPTIxNTtjcj0xO2N3PTE2NDtkeD0xO2R5PTE7Zmk9dWxjcm9wO2g9ODU7cT0xMDA7dz02NQ--/http://l.yimg.com/a/i/us/sp/v/nba/players_l/20101116/3605.jpg
― v-shasty, Sunday, 11 December 2011 16:01 (twelve years ago) link
which is why he's demanding to play the 4 wherever he goes this year.
he's a very good player! but he certainly should be paired with a stronger defensive big if you're going to maximize his value
― k3vin k., Sunday, 11 December 2011 16:02 (twelve years ago) link
he needs to be paired with a legit 7 footer.
― Matt Armstrong, Sunday, 11 December 2011 16:02 (twelve years ago) link
Gasol is probably fine except against 3 or 4 teams.
― Matt Armstrong, Sunday, 11 December 2011 16:03 (twelve years ago) link
When I see Nene I see a guy having a ton of success defensively except against a few 7 footers who are able to shoot over him too easily. against the shorter PFs he, yes, locks them down.
― Matt Armstrong, Sunday, 11 December 2011 16:05 (twelve years ago) link
― v-shasty, Sunday, December 11, 2011 10:54 AM (5 minutes ago) Bookmark Permalink
he was so key! i mean i wouldnt pay him but thats more abt his age and injury history, if there was more likelihood that hed repeat that performance hes totally worth it - look at the nba champions from the last ten years - they all have one of these guys http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_NBA_champions
― Cooper Chucklebutt, Sunday, 11 December 2011 16:05 (twelve years ago) link
I hope that the heat win a chip w/o having a legit big guy
― dayo, Sunday, 11 December 2011 16:07 (twelve years ago) link
Chandler was huge, for sure.
― Matt Armstrong, Sunday, 11 December 2011 16:07 (twelve years ago) link
― dayo, Sunday, December 11, 2011 11:07 AM (3 seconds ago) Bookmark Permalink
its possible, but itd be a lot easier if they traded for howard
― Cooper Chucklebutt, Sunday, 11 December 2011 16:08 (twelve years ago) link
who were the big men on MJ's teams? horace grant, rodman?
― dayo, Sunday, 11 December 2011 16:10 (twelve years ago) link
the mavs won bcuz of dirk & their three point shooting
― v-shasty, Sunday, 11 December 2011 16:10 (twelve years ago) link
the "big men win championships" thing is silly because, yeah most title teams have good big men. Most (more?) of them have elite 2 guards.
― Matt Armstrong, Sunday, 11 December 2011 16:10 (twelve years ago) link
ESPNChrisPalmer chris palmer Better forward combo than Dirk Nowitzki + Lamar Odom?
how dumb is this dude
xp LUC LONGLEY
― k3vin k., Sunday, 11 December 2011 16:11 (twelve years ago) link
you could've reduced chandler's minutes by half and it wouldn't have mattered -- dude was getting swatted in the post by d wade
― v-shasty, Sunday, 11 December 2011 16:11 (twelve years ago) link
I can def see how w/ the proliferation of penetration-friendly rules you just need better rim protection period
― dayo, Sunday, 11 December 2011 16:11 (twelve years ago) link
lol how good was LUC LONGLEY in his prime tho? wasn't he just a slow white guy xp
― Matt Armstrong, Sunday, December 11, 2011 11:10 AM (15 seconds ago)
this whole thing becomes sort of a tautology past a certain point
― k3vin k., Sunday, 11 December 2011 16:12 (twelve years ago) link
xp lol yeah he wasn't that good
you need players, is what I'm saying. You got 3 studs, you'll be there in the end.
― Matt Armstrong, Sunday, 11 December 2011 16:13 (twelve years ago) link
― dayo, Sunday, December 11, 2011 11:10 AM (46 seconds ago) Bookmark Permalink
― Matt Armstrong, Sunday, December 11, 2011 11:10 AM (2 seconds ago) Bookmark Permalink
over the last ten years which is the most relevant comparison for how basketball is played now in the nba more of the champions have had defensively elite big men than elite two guards by far!
― Cooper Chucklebutt, Sunday, 11 December 2011 16:13 (twelve years ago) link
― v-shasty, Sunday, December 11, 2011 11:11 AM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark Permalink
you are being totally insane jordan, the mavs played really really good D all through out the playoffs, chandler was completely key to that
― Cooper Chucklebutt, Sunday, 11 December 2011 16:15 (twelve years ago) link
well i think the thing that throws this argument off is that the major championship teams of the past decade all had very important, good defensive big men, except basically it was just two players, shaq and tim duncan.
i think it shows us more that if you can get a historically good big man, you have a very good shot of winning the title. i'm not sure that you need some goon like tyson chandler who can't do shit on offense.
― v-shasty, Sunday, 11 December 2011 16:16 (twelve years ago) link
so i mean yeah ppl should prob try and get dwight howard
― Cooper Chucklebutt, Sunday, December 11, 2011 10:13 AM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark Permalink
manu, wade, kobe.
― Matt Armstrong, Sunday, 11 December 2011 16:17 (twelve years ago) link
― v-shasty, Sunday, December 11, 2011 11:16 AM (39 seconds ago) Bookmark Permalink
JORDAN, BEN WALLACE KEVIN GARNETT AND TYSON CHANDLER ARE ON THE PHONE FOR U
― Cooper Chucklebutt, Sunday, 11 December 2011 16:18 (twelve years ago) link