2012 GOP Presidential Campaign -- "This individual's going to accuse me of an affair for an extended period of time."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kC1i9qLUgPY

Shoulda pulled the ten grand out of his pocket to drive home the point. "See? I've got it right here! Ten grand! Let's do it!"

Bizarre: Newt-Romney outflanked on all sides. Except for his roundly booed line about losing to Teddy Kennedy--which is true!--Newt's doing okay.

Don't you get ABC, Daniel? It's as national as it gets (unless I'm just lucky that Buffalo's carrying it).

Bizarre: Newt-Romney outflanked on all sides. Except for his roundly booed line about losing to Teddy Kennedy--which is true!--Newt's doing okay.

― clemenza, Saturday, December 10, 2011 8:44 PM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark Permalink

I didn't think it was booing I think it was more like "ohhhhhhhhhh no you didn't!"

Agree with Sullivan on how annoying Diane Sawyer is. Stephanopoulos, meanwhile, is as much of an agitator as we was during the 2008 Democratic debate in Philadelphia...except tonight I'm enjoying it.

lol Perry is so pathetic

hey looks like i turned this on at the right time

oh, now they're fighting about who is bigger friends w/ bibi. these guys are more hardcore on israel than i am

crowd doesn't know what to think about an issue that's not about taxes or Obama

i wonder if this is frustrating for the republicans -- they can climb over each other arguing about who loves israel the most and i'm still not going to vote for them

romney/rubio will only carry 40 states

States Obama is almost certain to win (with his 2008 margin therein):
Hawaii (45)
Vermont (37)
Rhode Island (28)
New York (27)
Illinois (25)
Massachusetts (25)
California (24)
Connecticut (22)
Washington (17)
Maine (17)
New Jersey (16) - Christie could put it in play, but is unlikely to win it; he didn't even beat his opponents (collectively)
Oregon (16)
Michigan (16) - Romney's birth here might substantially reduce the margin, aided by high unemployment, but it will be mitigated by his expressed desire to let the auto industry die
Wisconsin (14)
Minnesota (10)
^none of these States have voted for a Republican for President since Clinton came on the scene, and all except Oregon gave Obama a 50% or better approval rating in September. Romney may be a more attractive Republican to them than any since Poppy Bush/Reagan (Rubio not necessarily), but that isn't enough to win them.

States Obama will probably win:
Iowa (10) - it really belongs in the above category, having only gone for Bush over Kerry by 10K votes in a year in which Nader+other got 13K, and given Obama a 49% approval rating and reasonably solid head-to-head polling performances; still, its small size does make it a slight wild card
New Mexico (15) - like IA, it really belongs in the above category with such a wide margin and strong demographic moves in favor of the Democrats (neighbor McCain lost badly), but its small size and only a 46% approval rating make it just slightly unpredictable, and Bush beat Kerry here by 6K votes (in a year in which Nader+other got 8K), I think after at least one net had prematurely called the election; still, probably pretty safe for Obama, who is polling very well head-to-head (and benefits from low unemployment)
Pennsylvania (10) - Democrats never win by a lot here (it's Alabama in the middle, as they say), but they do always win, and while Obama has been tied or behind in many polls of the state, none of the Republicans have risen above the lower 40s and Obama outperformed his polls (and most Democrats) last time on strong black turnout; Christie could potentially really put the State in play (mitigated by Biden's roots), but I'm not sure he'd do that much that Romney cannot
Colorado (9) - a little closer than more hispanic New Mexico, with a little more Mormon influence, but Obama has continued to poll reasonably well here head-to-head
Nevada (14) - another small state, where Obama's margin may be dangerously reduced due to a long border with Utah/Mormon influence and some hispanic/general disillusionment (plus very high unemployment), and indeed Romney has often been tied in polling here, but also another state where Obama is aided by continuing demographic advantages that may be insurmountable and he substantially outperformed those polls in 2008, when again neighbor McCain got badly beat

Obama 2008 States that are Tossups:
New Hampshire (10) - Romney's media exposure from Massachusetts and 2008 is already helping here (where Bush won by 7K votes in 2000, while Nader got 22K, and where Obama enjoys unusually low approval ratings for a state he carried last time) - he now solidly leads in the polls. Whether the anti-Obama sentiment (racism?) that was prevalent in the 2008 primary will again evaporate by election day remains to be seen - the State's small numbers and flintiness make it hard to forecast.
Ohio (5) - the (perenially) truest tossup and perhaps keyest state in the race; Obama is tied in the polls, facing an unhappy but unpredictable electorate, but probably has a slight incumbency edge nevertheless
Virginia (6) - Romney, who probably eats away at some of Obama's tech community support, has at least a slight lead in polling, some of which Obama outperformed late, and a McDonnell pick might help put the State away
Florida (3) - Romney is well ahead in polling here, where unemployment is high, and the State looks gone for Obama, especially if Rubio is on the ticket, though the economic situation and demographics make it difficult to predict
North Carolina (-) - with a very slim 2008 margin, one might have to say it's gone, except continuing hispanic (and black? white educated male?) demographic trends may mitigate against that, reflected in polling in which Obama remains within the margin with Mitt as well as more popular than he is in some safer states

States Obama will probably lose but could theoretically win (especially if there's a third-party candidate):
Indiana (-) - Obama's neighborly advantage was good for just a 0.03% victory margin, and he lives in Washington now; still, some decent demographic trends in his favor
Missouri (-) - margin was close enough last time (just -0.13%) that with depressed conservative turnout, theoretically Obama could pull it off like (fellow) neighbor Clinton did twice; unlikely, though
Montana (-2) - trend is strongly away from Obama, who is unlikely to pull off Clinton's '92 feat
Georgia (-5) - like NC, demographic trends in favor and relatively high Obama popularity (48%, higher than FL/NC/VA, not to mention AZ/CO/NV/NM) combined with a Northeastern Republican (this State did pick Clinton over Poppy Bush); not enough, though
Arizona (-8) - without McCain in the race, perhaps the second-most hispanic state in the Southwest will look a bit more like CO or NV? with an older population, that probably isn't enough, even if it went for Clinton over Dole

If Romney wins all of the tossups and GOP leaners, he wins the election (by 1 electoral vote). but I don't regard that as likely - I think Obama is the favorite to carry at least one of Ohio, New Hampshire, and Virginia (or one of the other Southern states).

Did you know that Newt Gingrich is an historian (and that Michelle Bachmann is a tax lawyer)?

I'm sure you lead from the rear, Rick.

I was really hoping that Perry would talk about his lifetime friendship with Bibi Netanyahu.

Haha

santorum: "the so-called... 'west bank.'"

he must've been about to say 'occupied territories' and thought better of it bc idk anyone who doesn't call the 'west bank' the west bank.

Didn't you think that was booing directed at Gingrich over the Teddy Kennedy remark, Matt? I was sure that's what it was.

nah man I really think it was more of a "dayyyuummm" reaction than booing, though I'm sure there were some boos in there. Maybe I'm just biased though, because it was my reaction.

I'm not watching but I keep reading tweets saying newt's doing well, better than romney, and perry isn't doing enough to really help himself.

so: I approve!

So the Governor of Iowa wins his shouted ad lib...It's all been kind of anti-climactic. Gingrich and Romney have been on defense the whole way, and they've more or less done okay. Santorum has probably done the most to help himself, but that probably just means he'll finish fourth in Iowa.

"wins with"...

So you're saying we'll soon have a santorum "surge"?

Ewww

No Santorum surge--possibly (my new cliche of the moment) a Santorum boomlet.

Weirdest moment of the night for me was when Perry was in the middle of an immigration answer, you heard a piece paper rustle loudly, and he seemed to zone out for two or three seconds.

The worst moment was probably Romney's silly $10,000 bet.

What was the bet?

Gingrich's "If we do survive" was...troubling.

Romney and Perry were arguing about the line that got deleted from subsequent editions of Romney's book.

http://2012.talkingpointsmemo.com/2011/12/mitt-romney-offers-to-bet-rick-perry-10000-on-debate-stage.php?ref=fpa

perry said romney wrote in his book that the massachusetts plan could be a "model" for the country and romney said perry was misquoting him

if perry wasn't an idiot he would just read mitt the direct quote.

Perry might be a little off with that characterization, but basically yeah, he's got it right. romney is stupid to challenge him on that point! it's a memorable challenge! people will write about it tomorrow!

I love this line from a Sullivan reader: "Sometimes I think Rick Perry gets halfway through an answer and sees a Frisbee." The Oprah-like last five minutes wasn't bad--I mean, it could have been a lot worse. I think Newt said "fundamental"/"fundamentally" twice tonight.

josh marshall says democrats can barely contain their glee with romney's 10k bet, but romney's strategists think mitt "nailed it."

guess we'll are who is right.

"see," not "are." damn auto-spell.

I don't regard the Biden-Clinton switcheroo as a serious concept. He is a trusted right-hand man/Congressional liaison who arguably cannot be replaced as a working-class white male surrogate. She is very tired from flying all over the world as Secretary of State, and apparently looking forward to a break after election day (during which it's not impossible she might gear up for a 2016 run).

Personally, however, I do confess to secretly desiring a ticket of Obama/Huntsman's hair.

"Sometimes I think Rick Perry gets halfway through an answer and sees a Frisbee."

That's great. He really seems fundamentally incapable of thinking in any complex way, and only makes a poor attempt at memorization with some folksy talk layered on top. Even his big initiative written about in the New York Times today came from his college friend.

Good line from the Kos guy:

Mitt Romney says: "I didn't grow up poor." And if you want to vote for someone who grew up poor, he's not your guy. But his dad did grow up poor. So if you want a guy whose dad grew up poor, then he's your guy.

Besides the horrible symbolism/optics of Romney's bet, I remember seeing the line that was deleted from his book on some news report, and I'm pretty sure Perry was more or less right.

romney can credibly claim that he always advocated for states to be able to enact their own health-care plans, but he absolutely touted the individual mandate as a good plan that worked great and should be strongly considered by other states. Remember that the original romney book came out when romney thought obama was pushing for a public option, so a mandate could still be touted as a conservative alternative. but obama switched to a mandate, and so -- voila -- romney's position no longer looked so good, and he removed that line from his book.

The conservative-alternative defense is exactly what Gingrich is using--that the mandate in 1994 was a conservative alternative to Hillary's plan--so that's a wash.

I asked this ages ago on some other thread: how is a health-care mandate different than a car-insurance mandate? I don't get it.

Wait; newt's said that he used to support an individual mandate, but only as an alternative to an even more-liberal clinton plan, but he came to realize that mandates were a bad idea, and he's renounced the notion.

I think that's what your saying. Just want to be clear.

By the way, I'm not convinced it's a wash. Romney remains proud of his plan in massachusetts, while newt now rejects the whole notion of mandates. I think newt has actually staked-out a clever position on this, vis-a-vis romney.

Yes, that's how Gingrich presented it tonight. I think it's a wash at worst for Gingrich--i.e., I don't see him getting hurt by this either.

Everything I'm reading says Romney lost -- the only issue seems to be how badly he damaged himself.

at best he lost by not doing damage to gingrich. he needs to reverse the tide here.

I've re-watched the Ted Kennedy moment a couple of times--TPM has it up--and although there's clearly some loud booing, it seems to be confined to a handful of people. The overall reaction may be closer to what Matt describes.

$10,000 bet was amazing. Romney fucked this debate up in an incredible way.

"I will bet one night with my wife that you are incorrect"

"which wife"

"mr. gingrich, please wait until you're being addressed"