Girls thread cont.

That is a lot of questions! Sorry.

totally otm - that was along the lines of my suggestions to my friend in the burbs. Like "what if you just started talking about the things that interest you or make the weird jokes that you think about?"

I frequently fail at the "patience" part of that, obviously.

it's not as if guys are better at being friends - there are plenty of guys who have mostly female friends bc for them women are better friends.

it's not about gender, it's about context/situations.

my mom said something to me that was kinda </3 the other day -- she said that she didn't think she was a very good friend, but that she was a really good employee. It reminded me of that "emotional TMI" thread started by the league of women voters.

I don't approach a group of women with that attitude, I try not too. I have gone to baby showers and bridal showers where I only know the woman of the hour and with the idea that maybe I will meet someone, sit next to a nice person since we all share this mutual friend. What happens is I smile a lot, I try to start conversations but then the groups start forming and there have been times that I put myself in one of those circles but ugh...that is when it gets awkward. Then later, days or weeks, the woman I am friends with will mention in passing or make a deal out of how she didn't truly love everyone in the room but so and so was invited because so and so was etc.. I feel better.

Sometimes I feel it is a natural thing for women to be stand offish, cliquish and just not all the way cool with each other. I saw this in my backyard flock of hens. They are social animals that create communities and set boundaries. But when I see a warm female face or smile or feel that vibe of hey you can talk to me I do approach. I have to say I have been more successful at meeting and having cool conversations with woman who are several years older than I am.

My ugh is that fear of rejection and maybe a bit of ptsd with being with women around my age, ten years younger maybe. I can spot a female vinyl lover and will gravitate to them anywhere, I love any sort of passionate collector, reader or classic movie watcher, photo/camera enthusiast, livestock lover, bunny owner, burlesque and roller skating ... I have many interests and generally find people interesting. But I have to admit, at this point, it just doesn't take much to get turned off by a female. Patience is right.

But no, I do not plan on letting my child see this aversion which is why I am prepared to give it a good try and hang with other women. I just hope it goes well and I get lucky. It is a scary thing for me, something I am trying to get past. I have a wonderful circle of female friends, small as it is and they have and are in the process of having children. We travel though so I will not be around them, therefore, have to go out into the world and find new ones wherever we are stationed.

how old are you?

if i may ask

40

i was just wondering -- it doesn't really matter, and then i felt rude for asking

But I have to admit, at this point, it just doesn't take much to get turned off by a female.

what i really want to know is why it's so easy to get "turned off by a female" but men are given a wider berth to...be assholes? be not like you? be appealing in some other way? i just don't get it. doesn't make sense to me whatsoever. the world is full of people of all genders and orientations who are different and interesting. if you're traveling, might as well get to know some of them. who cares if they become part of your inner circle. give them a chance to get past the giant ogres guarding the door.

when you say you have ptsd do you mean it literally or is it hyperbolically?

My two ex-husbands are a testimony to the fact that I have met male assholes. No, I do not give them wide berth either. But on average I do have more casual run-ins with snarky female strangers than with male strangers.

Last week I had a pleasant conversations with a record store clerk about Mexican 78's and a label called Kicks. He was not a dick about what I didn't know and let me pay for my purchases with a credit card when they only take cash. He was nice.

Tonight I met a nice female and we spoke about records and music. It isn't like it just doesn't happen, it is just really rare to find. In fact in our conversation I brought up how in feminist class in college a majority of my classmates would have nothing to do with Beat Poets seeing the entire movement as male based only and took huge offense to it but that I wish they had given them a chance. She said she was not of that mindset and scored huge brownie points.

I think we are all in search of like mindedness to some extent. I appreciate empathy as well. I feel I am at an age where I no longer have to put up with what I don't want in my life and seek out what I do. I was only stating that now that I am having a girl, I will have to explore the female world again so that my little girl has a chance to make her own decisions. I am willing to do that for her but it will not be easy. I am willing to start with a clean slate on plenty of things for her sake.

You know, you could always ask a friend of yours to be your daughter's honorary auntie and send her nail polish colors and stuff? It seems like a tall order if you're planning on being yourself AND someone you're not, and tho I am not a mom, I don't think that's required?

Your daughter will probably let you know what she's into, as she gets into it! (Judging by all the blogs by ex-punks and riot grrls etc etc whose daughters have asked for Barbies and tutus and princess dresses, much to their mothers' dismay.)

(Not trying to derail, but posting this here so I don't forget about it: http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2011/12/04/behind-the-perfect-body-models-and-bodybuilders/. Thank you. Carry on.)

Pyth, what you say makes sense too.

The Aunties have already started.

I got my models of women's friendships and support networks from watching all the women of my family interact at gatherings. Even though they came from difft places and were wildly difft people, the warmth and good sense in the house on holidays & parties was tremendously comforting to me and made a huge impression.

As long as yr daughter sees you having healthy friendships w both men and women, in whatever quantities, I'm sure she'll catch on.

yeah that seems otm.

You have managed to cast away anxieties, Pyth. Thanks!

2/3 of the young women surveyed for this study employed "vocal fry"

it sounds like this http://news.sciencemag.org/sciencenow/vocalfryshort.mp3

or alternately, as an example ke$ha uses it when she says "i love your beard" at the end of whatever song that is where she says that

read more here http://news.sciencemag.org/sciencenow/2011/12/vocal-fry-creeping-into-us-speec.html?ref=hp

The researchers also plan to test students in high schools and middle schools to learn why young women creak when they speak. "Young students tend to use it when they get together," Abdelli-Beruh says. "Maybe this is a social link between members of a group."

lol olds

"We have hypothesized that this technique allows the subjects to communicate non-verbal content to others of their species."

yeaaaaaah, soooooo

more about vocal fry and gender

... but this tiny bit of evidence is certainly consistent with the traditional view that vocal fry has long been a common feature of sentence-final low pitches in American English, and that it's commoner among female speakers than among male speakers. Whether there's a generational effect (which could be due to life-cycle effects or to some overall cultural change) remains to be seen.

http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=3626

OMG this has a name! I was trying to describe this recently when I overheard this pitch-perfect, just, PARODY of Valley Girl talk all the way home on the Muni. (It wasn't a parody. But it was the first time in 2 years I have heard such an exaggerated way of speaking). I feel like people have to squish their necks way down when they do this.

Can we discuss a fashion matter?

Soooo, when did it become the thing for women to dress like eternal teenagers? And guys, too... for that matter.

I was watching some 80's movie, and realizing that women back then would dress a bit older than their age. I'm bringing it back. Dressed like a total cougar today. AND IT FEELS EMPOWERING. Sharon Stone would be so proud.

There was a great article about this a couple months back. I'll see if I can find it.

I fucking hate shopping right now. I feel like a lot of stuff in dept stores or whatever is either way to young and cutesy or too old and matronly. Gross.

Caught myself doing a little vocal fry at the dry-cleaners last night, for some reason. Thought of thread, smiled.

MANDEE, you will be unsurprised to hear that I couldn't agree more. I'm glad we have the freedom to dress however we like, but I way more enjoy actual tailored clothes and shoe choices if I have to look at people all day.

I can't get that sound file to work for me so I have no idea what the vocal fry is or whether or not I do it. :/

Mandee what does the cougar outfit consist of?

laurel does this well

i would love to mark an end to the cutesy over"styled" modcloth aesthetic for grown up women as well.

Its a silky-satiny black and white patterned top with shoulder pads that I got at a thrift shop, a big red belt around the waist, black trousers, high heeled boots, big cougar hair.

i kinda resist the "cougar" label though because back in the day, that well dressed attractive adult person wasn't overtly considered a predator.

(only understood to be one by the look in her eye -- zow)

I think Mandee's embracing "cougar" tbh. Do you look like an extra in working girl because it sounds like you do which means you're probably doing it right imo.

i understand -- it's an accurate descriptor for our times, i get it
i just wish there wasn't that added dimension of cougar

Yeah I am embracing cougar. I'm working a Carmela Soprano/Peg Bundy look these days.

i really need to upgrade my style to at least 'vaguely mature'

i'm a little jeal of my stylish lady friends and of my dudes that don't dress like teenagers, but it just seems like making the leap from 'jeans + t-shirt' to 'rakish man about town' would be hell of costly and time-consuming. plus it would involve going to stores and shopping and that just gives me the vapors.

(sorry for posting on yr thread ladies but lately i have been feeling a little unstylish and not-very-adult....is there an ILS thread in the sandbox? i need tips. also how do i shot closet liquidation)

mandee may i suggest you listen to this song to inspire you

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zoZS0HRliPg

Here's the ILS thread: sandbox ILS-catchall rolling thread

i wish i could shop for you. shopping for men's clothes sounds like fun!

i am srsly tempted to shanghai my sister into shopping with/for me while she's home from engerland

homo you are welcome to shop for me anytime

Shopping for men's clothes is great fun. I generally have had more success shopping for men's clothes than shopping for myself.

Your sister might enjoy helping you, or maybe one of your stylish lady friends could help?

Tbh 'jeans + t-shirt' is how I dress approx 75% of the time when I'm not at work or in PJs and I'm OK with that.* I just wish that when I did want to dress up there were more options.

*My mother never fails to remark that it's time I get some adult sneakers every time she happens to see me in Converse. What adult sneakers are exactly, I have no idea.

e that is me exactly, down to the converse (which I wear to work all the time :-/ )

I would feel pretty great about a Dr. in converse tbh but that's just me.

I actually do have a lot of dressier/nicer stuff but it's so much to think about. This morning I was going to wear this new skirt I have but haven't worn yet but then I started getting overwhelmed thinking of which tights and boughts to wear it with etc. and I didn't have time so I just wore my work equivalent of jeans/t which is black trousers and a sweater. Laying out my clothes the night before helps this dilemma a bit but I fell asleep on the couch last night.

tights and boughts

lol

tight and BOOTS not boughts

omg so did i (fall asleep on the couch...i don't have to be @ the BEC until 3pm today so w/e i am just chilling)

lol :)

e, I didn't quite get what "vocal fry" was (I think maybe it's less common in the UK, but I have def heard it, and tbh I basically never hang around young people so whatdoIknow etc) until I followed the link from a comment elsewhere on the internet and listened to the stream on this page:
http://grammar.quickanddirtytips.com/active-voice.aspx

Check the last word of nearly every sentence, where her voices goes low and sort of growly/tremelo.

I am a terrible person for wearing black jeans and sneakers (nearly the only shoes that reliably fit my wide, flat feet) to work every day. My token gesture to adulthood was when I decided I was too fat for t-shirts and started wearing buttoned blouses, but those are not cool and have been hard to buy for the past few years so now I wear tops which are basically... slightly nicer t-shirts, I guess.