J.R. Smith has literally been shanghaied away for the foreshortened 2011-2012 NBA season: rolling ILH sandbox thread

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except for the hornets

Cooper Chucklebutt, Friday, 9 December 2011 16:25 (twelve years ago) link

are you kidding? the Hornets would have made out great on that!

I'm in the mood to party (J0n Arbuckle), Friday, 9 December 2011 16:27 (twelve years ago) link

yah cool give up a top five player, dont even get back the 2nd best guy in the trade!

Cooper Chucklebutt, Friday, 9 December 2011 16:29 (twelve years ago) link

and now you have team full of role players and a shitty draft pick!

Cooper Chucklebutt, Friday, 9 December 2011 16:30 (twelve years ago) link

you know who was psyched abt that trade: houston

Cooper Chucklebutt, Friday, 9 December 2011 16:31 (twelve years ago) link

Still way better than losing in the first round of the playoffs and then having nothing for next season. I'm not sure what you expected them to get for him.

I'm in the mood to party (J0n Arbuckle), Friday, 9 December 2011 16:34 (twelve years ago) link

well just off the top of my head they couldve traded him for pau gasol

Cooper Chucklebutt, Friday, 9 December 2011 16:35 (twelve years ago) link

but like they have three months to trade him, this deal wouldve still been there, why because they were getting fleeced

Cooper Chucklebutt, Friday, 9 December 2011 16:36 (twelve years ago) link

the whole better than losing him in the off season argument is a total straw man

Cooper Chucklebutt, Friday, 9 December 2011 16:36 (twelve years ago) link

i don't feel like theyd be a serious contender w/ Gasol either
also I'm not sure they get a better deal if they sit on him for 3 months

I'm in the mood to party (J0n Arbuckle), Friday, 9 December 2011 16:37 (twelve years ago) link

Isn't their something about 6 months with a team for Bird rights in the new CBA? I remember it being discussed. If so, then he loses the chance at an extra 20 million dollars if he's traded after the New Year.

EZ Snappin, Friday, 9 December 2011 16:39 (twelve years ago) link

Which is why he might sue. They could cost him a ton of money.

EZ Snappin, Friday, 9 December 2011 16:39 (twelve years ago) link

soshnick soshnick
Billy Hunter tells Bloomberg that he anticipates Chris Paul will be in training camp. As for lawsuit: ``Not at this moment.'' #NBA
5 minutes ago

soshnick soshnick
Billy Hunter: ``we've got to is look at the circumstances and investigate it further.'' #NBA
6 minutes ago

soshnick soshnick
Billy Hunter tells Bloomberg he's waiting to hear from Chris Paul. Probably talk with NBA later today. #NBA
8 minutes ago

soshnick soshnick
David Stern talking to Bloomberg's @masonlev #NBA
15 minutes ago

soshnick soshnick
Stern: ``I don't want to speak on the basketball side, but that particular one was weighed against Chris Paul's continued presence in NO.''
15 minutes ago

soshnick soshnick
As for other trades, Stern says ``I'll leave that to the team as the discussion goes on.''
16 minutes ago

soshnick soshnick
`The decision was taken that Chris Paul in New Orleans was more valuable than the trade that was being discussed,David Stern tells Bloomberg
17 minutes ago

moullet, Friday, 9 December 2011 16:40 (twelve years ago) link

maybe the league will force the hornets to trade paul into NBA pergatory, e.g., the raptors or cavs.

Daniel, Esq., Friday, 9 December 2011 16:40 (twelve years ago) link

generally deals get better as the trade deadline approaches, obvs theres no guarantee, and theres literally nothing they could do this year that would make them a contender, what any team wants when they are forced to move a superstar and go into rebuilding mode is some combo of good young players, quality draft picks, and cap relief, they got none of those things!

Cooper Chucklebutt, Friday, 9 December 2011 16:41 (twelve years ago) link

then what trade deadline deals would you say compare to this? as great as CP3 is I can't imagine that his value is super high when he's only under contract for this year. also I think you underestimate some of the players they got back. I would definitely think that puts them in "one or two pieces away" territory

I'm in the mood to party (J0n Arbuckle), Friday, 9 December 2011 16:52 (twelve years ago) link

I guess the Knicks pick isn't going to be as good as I thought though since picks outside the top 15 or so generally aren't worth much

I'm in the mood to party (J0n Arbuckle), Friday, 9 December 2011 16:52 (twelve years ago) link

from last night, here are some of the players picked since 04 or so in the 17-21 range

eric bledsoe, ty lawson, javale mcgee, jj hickson, roy hibbert, nick young, sean williams, rajon rondo, danny granger, hakeem warrick, josh smith, j.r. smith, jameer nelson

so i mean you can get a really great player in that range of where the knicks pick is going to be. obv there are busts in there too, but it's not like you're confined to taking someone who's gonna be your seventh best player.

v-shasty, Friday, 9 December 2011 16:54 (twelve years ago) link

you're talking about the possibility of CP3 being traded to the NYK? if the league killed the CP3-to-lakers deal because of "competitive balance" issues raised by angry small-market team owners, the league isn't going to let CP3 go to the knicks either.

Daniel, Esq., Friday, 9 December 2011 16:55 (twelve years ago) link

the league needs to get out of the business of owning a team, immediately.

if a buyer can't be found within this (reasonable) time period, maybe the team shouldn't exist.

Daniel, Esq., Friday, 9 December 2011 16:56 (twelve years ago) link

I just think the whole "competitive balance" thing is really overstated. I don't even think the fans want it. Interest in the NBA is higher when these "superteams" do exist.

I'm in the mood to party (J0n Arbuckle), Friday, 9 December 2011 16:56 (twelve years ago) link

the fans aren't demanding it. small-market owners are (presumably believing that local interest in their teams will benefit from it).

Daniel, Esq., Friday, 9 December 2011 16:57 (twelve years ago) link

check out what the wolves got for garnet

Boston sent the Minnesota Timberwolves forwards Al Jefferson, Ryan Gomes and Gerald Green, guard Sebastian Telfair and center Theo Ratliff, two first-round draft picks and cash considerations. Besides Ratliff, 34, the other four are 24 or younger.

the picks were bostons (meh) and minnesotas (quality! turned out to be the 6th pick, lol trading for a pick you already traded away)

so a young all star, a young role player, a young guy w/possible upside, some other young guy, a major expiring contract a quality draft pick & a shitty draft pick

at the time lots people were saying minny got robbed fwiw

Cooper Chucklebutt, Friday, 9 December 2011 16:59 (twelve years ago) link

right, so the question is, should David Stern be acting on the behalf of the owners or the fans? I dunno, the whole situation makes my head spin - this is exactly why league-owned teams should never happen

I'm in the mood to party (J0n Arbuckle), Friday, 9 December 2011 16:59 (twelve years ago) link

from last night, here are some of the players picked since 04 or so in the 17-21 range

eric bledsoe, ty lawson, javale mcgee, jj hickson, roy hibbert, nick young, sean williams, rajon rondo, danny granger, hakeem warrick, josh smith, j.r. smith, jameer nelson

so i mean you can get a really great player in that range of where the knicks pick is going to be. obv there are busts in there too, but it's not like you're confined to taking someone who's gonna be your seventh best player.

― v-shasty, Friday, December 9, 2011 11:54 AM (4 minutes ago) Bookmark Permalink

omg u cherry picking bastard

Cooper Chucklebutt, Friday, 9 December 2011 16:59 (twelve years ago) link

right, so the question is, should David Stern be acting on the behalf of the owners or the fans? I dunno, the whole situation makes my head spin - this is exactly why league-owned teams should never happen

― I'm in the mood to party (J0n Arbuckle), Friday, December 9, 2011 11:59 AM (12 seconds ago) Bookmark Permalink

yeah exactly

Cooper Chucklebutt, Friday, 9 December 2011 17:00 (twelve years ago) link

hey jordan watch this the last pick of the 2nd round is actually p valuable, heres some players who were picked there: manu ginobili

Cooper Chucklebutt, Friday, 9 December 2011 17:01 (twelve years ago) link

you act like none of the guys the Hornets would get were valuable at all? true most of them aren't young (besides Dragic?) but all were nice trade chips in themselves.

I'm in the mood to party (J0n Arbuckle), Friday, 9 December 2011 17:04 (twelve years ago) link

behead david stern plz

amon, Friday, 9 December 2011 17:04 (twelve years ago) link

the league needs to get out of the business of owning a team, immediately.

if a buyer can't be found within this (reasonable) time period, maybe the team shouldn't exist.

― Daniel, Esq., Friday, December 9, 2011 11:56 AM (5 minutes ago) Bookmark Permalink

the thing thats happening according to some people is there are just no $300m type offers on the table, and the other owners dont want to sell for what they can get because itll set a price precedent and depress the value of all their teams, theyre basically waiting out the rescission hoping for the best, the dicks

Cooper Chucklebutt, Friday, 9 December 2011 17:04 (twelve years ago) link

you act like none of the guys the Hornets would get were valuable at all? true most of them aren't young (besides Dragic?) but all were nice trade chips in themselves.

― I'm in the mood to party (J0n Arbuckle), Friday, December 9, 2011 12:04 PM (18 seconds ago) Bookmark Permalink

there are some ok players but not close to enough talent, not enough youth

Cooper Chucklebutt, Friday, 9 December 2011 17:05 (twelve years ago) link

you're talking about the possibility of CP3 being traded to the NYK? if the league killed the CP3-to-lakers deal because of "competitive balance" issues raised by angry small-market team owners, the league isn't going to let CP3 go to the knicks either.

― Daniel, Esq., Friday, December 9, 2011 10:55 AM (9 minutes ago) Bookmark Permalink

the knicks pick we're talking about is just one first round draft picked owned by the hornets

v-shasty, Friday, 9 December 2011 17:06 (twelve years ago) link

omg u cherry picking bastard

― Cooper Chucklebutt, Friday, December 9, 2011 10:59 AM (6 minutes ago) Bookmark Permalink

well duh i'm cherry picking, but my point is that plenty of good to great players have been drafted in that spot. you're acting like it's a middle of the second round pick.

honestly once you get outside the top 7 or 8 picks or so... players 9-20 are gonna be roughly equal, so a pick from the knicks that's 17 or 18 is just about as good as a low lottery pick imo

v-shasty, Friday, 9 December 2011 17:10 (twelve years ago) link

the knicks pick we're talking about is just one first round draft picked owned by the hornets

― v-shasty, Friday, December 9, 2011 11:06 AM (4 minutes ago) Bookmark Permalink

and by hornets i mean rockets -- it would've been traded to the hornets by the rockets in this trade

v-shasty, Friday, 9 December 2011 17:11 (twelve years ago) link

the thing thats happening according to some people is there are just no $300m type offers on the table, and the other owners dont want to sell for what they can get because itll set a price precedent and depress the value of all their teams, theyre basically waiting out the rescission hoping for the best, the dicks

you can see the legitimate business-judgment in the owners' position, but there is an inevitable conflict between their role as league owners and their role as collective owners of a single team within that league. if the market was improving fast, and a suitable buyer was likely to emerge in the next few months, then it would be an unpleasent but tolerable situation. but that's not likely to be the case.

Daniel, Esq., Friday, 9 December 2011 17:12 (twelve years ago) link

its abt the likelihood of getting a good player and what the likelihood that player will be really good is, and i agree that pick has some value, but for chris paul you should be getting a top 5 pick, and i fwiw totally reject yr hypothesis re spots 9-20 xp

Cooper Chucklebutt, Friday, 9 December 2011 17:13 (twelve years ago) link

BREAKING: Orlando makes a trade!

Brandon Bass for Big Baby.

EZ Snappin, Friday, 9 December 2011 17:36 (twelve years ago) link

hmmm

Cooper Chucklebutt, Friday, 9 December 2011 17:38 (twelve years ago) link

hmmmmmmmm -- i like that for the celtics -- they needed better rebounding/defense inside than what baby could provide imo

v-shasty, Friday, 9 December 2011 17:39 (twelve years ago) link

and the magic can play baby w/ howard and not worry about his D

v-shasty, Friday, 9 December 2011 17:39 (twelve years ago) link

yeah i think i agree

Cooper Chucklebutt, Friday, 9 December 2011 17:40 (twelve years ago) link

my understanding is if he gets picked up in the draft/wavier wire thing i dont know what to call mode then the team who picks him up pays some set amount of the contract while the original team pays the rest - if no one picks him up hes a free agent and his original team pays the entire contract

― Cooper Chucklebutt, Friday, December 9, 2011 11:14 AM (1 hour ago)

i'm still unclear on this - so if a dude gets amnestied and is not picked up by another team on waivers, he basically gets his whole contract bought out? so if billups doesn't get picked up he'll be getting paid anyway and can sign with the heat for the vet min?

k3vin k., Friday, 9 December 2011 17:42 (twelve years ago) link

rip b roy ;_;

k3vin k., Friday, 9 December 2011 17:42 (twelve years ago) link

That's the gist k3v. He gets all his money either way, just can't automatically dictate where he is going to play.

EZ Snappin, Friday, 9 December 2011 17:43 (twelve years ago) link

i'm still unclear on this - so if a dude gets amnestied and is not picked up by another team on waivers, he basically gets his whole contract bought out? so if billups doesn't get picked up he'll be getting paid anyway and can sign with the heat for the vet min?

― k3vin k., Friday, December 9, 2011 11:42 AM (10 seconds ago) Bookmark Permalink

no, i think it's that the player's contract stays the same -- he doesn't get more or less money -- if he doesn't get picked up, the old team just pays it out as if he was on the team -- if he does get picked up, there's some system that determines how much of the existing contract the new team pays

v-shasty, Friday, 9 December 2011 17:43 (twelve years ago) link

no i think i read somewhere that the og team buys him out but the salary doesn't count against their cap?

k3vin k., Friday, 9 December 2011 17:44 (twelve years ago) link

i don't think that if the player gets picked up that he loses any of his salary -- there's no way the union would've agreed to that

v-shasty, Friday, 9 December 2011 17:46 (twelve years ago) link

in other news, the nets are going to get investigated by the league for tampering. apparently dwight met up w/ prohk & billy king in miami w/o orlando's knowledge.

v-shasty, Friday, 9 December 2011 17:47 (twelve years ago) link

"is not legal?"

v-shasty, Friday, 9 December 2011 17:47 (twelve years ago) link

lol

Cooper Chucklebutt, Friday, 9 December 2011 17:48 (twelve years ago) link


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