All-Purpose NuILX thread for American Politics

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OTM.

i forgot how far Frist had his dick into that whole SchaivoGate thing until reading that CNN peice.

grady (grady), Wednesday, 29 November 2006 20:01 (seventeen years ago) link

The group made up of people who won't vote for Barack Hussein Obama because of his name is 100% a subset of people who wouldn't vote for him anyway.

that's not how it works - the Hussein thing will be brought out here and there to reinforce other things more relevant to people who don't have their minds made up.

but anyway, I think some other parts of the world might think differently about us if we elect a guy with Hussein in his name.

nuneb (nuneb), Wednesday, 29 November 2006 20:17 (seventeen years ago) link

So this is the same as Sean Hannity pretending that Robert Byrd's middle name is "KKK"?

grady (grady), Wednesday, 29 November 2006 22:11 (seventeen years ago) link

Barack Hussein Osama more like it

jhoshea (jhoshea), Wednesday, 29 November 2006 22:18 (seventeen years ago) link

What do you guys think of Rick Perlstein's thing in TNR today, talking about both how the GOP has maintained control of much of the South, and how pundits always seem to ascribe more conservative leanings to "Middle America" than any evidence actually proves. I don't feel too solid to comment on the bits connected to the south, but I do agree with the other part of the article, talking about the foibles and fucked-up existences of pundits.

The thing is an interesting read, but it's a forced reg site, so here goes. I

The New Republic Online

THE UNSPOKEN TRUTH ABOUT THE GOP.
Southern Discomfort
by Rick Perlstein
Only at TNR Online
Post date: 11.29.06

In the days after the 2004 election, the same CNN exit poll was on every pundit's lips: Asked about their most important issue, a plurality of voters cited "moral values." Eighty percent of that plurality voted for George W. Bush--no matter that cooler heads soon demonstrated these findings to be statistically meaningless. For "most of the last 100 years, politics has been defined by economic interests," Bill Clinton's former press secretary, Dee Dee Myers, pronounced on MSNBC. "That's no longer true." And so, a refrain developed: Without making significant inroads among churchgoing Southerners, Democrats could never hope to win a governing majority.

But this month's election yielded data that, unlike CNN's exit poll, was irrefutable: For the first time since 1953, the party that dominates the South is the minority party in Congress. November 7, 2006, may well go down in history as the day the modern Republican Party became a mere Southern faction. There's only one problem: No one's talking about it on TV. Instead, Heath Shuler became the cable news bookers' new favorite guest, as if the election of a pro-life Democrat from North Carolina was the election's most important trend: As Bob Schieffer announced, "These Democrats that were elected last night are conservative Democrats." Meanwhile, the one man whose book predicted the election's actual revelation--that the South and its conservative ways were irrelevant to the Democrats' victory--has been shut out. "I managed to squeeze onto Chris Matthews once," says Thomas F. Schaller, a professor of political science at the University of Maryland, Baltimore County, "but we didn't even talk about the book."

Schaller's book is Whistling Past Dixie: How Democrats Can Win Without the South. Published this October, it argues, "The South is likely to become more Republican in the decades ahead," that Democrats can make and keep the Republicans a mere regional party, and that the best shot at a Democratic majority "in the immediate term is to consolidate electoral control over the Northeast and Pacific Coast blue states, expand the party's Midwestern margins, and cultivate the new-growth areas of the interior West." That's exactly how it went down November 7. The last prognosticator of structural shifts in American politics this accurate--Kevin Phillips, in his 1969 book The Emerging Republican Majority--became a household name. But, because he is a friend, it pains me to have to make a prognostication of my own: Tom Schaller will never become a household name. The reasons are ideological.

The people who have paid most attention to Schaller have been hysterics. Former Representative Glen Browder, a founder of the Blue Dog Democrats, was asked in the Anniston Star what he thought of Whistling Past Dixie. Browder, also a Ph.D. in political science, replied that Schaller was spouting "foolishness," but that "fortunately, most national leaders today understand that the road to the magic 218 number inevitably runs through this region." He said this oblivious to the fact that Schaller's "foolishness" had, in fact, just come true.

Still, Browder will always have an easier time winning a seat alongside Schieffer on Face the Nation than Schaller. TV punditry is not a meritocracy. Points aren't awarded for being right. (If they were, how many talking heads who saw only rosy things ahead in Iraq would still be on air?) It is an ideological system, with perverse ideological rules. And Browder has just honored one of them: Glorify what the French call l'Amerique profunde--the "heartland," of which the South is the sacred center.

Schaller speaks ill of the South. The very heart of his argument is a taboo notion: that the South votes Republican because the Republicans have perfected their appeal to Southern racism, and that Democrats simply can't (and shouldn't) compete.

But, among scholars, this is hardly news. Schaller builds this conclusion on one of the most impressive papers in recent political science, "Old Times There Are Not Forgotten: Race and Partisan Realignment in the Contemporary South," by Nicholas Valentino and David Sears. Running regressions on a massive data set of ideological opinions, Sears and Valentino demonstrate with precision that, for example, a white Southern man who calls himself a "conservative," controlling for racial attitudes, is no less likely to chance a vote for a Democratic presidential candidate than a Northerner who calls himself a conservative. Likewise, a pro-life or hawkish Southern white man is no less likely--again controlling for racial attitudes--than a pro-life or hawkish Northerner to vote for the Democrat. But, on the other hand, when the relevant identifier is anti-black answers to survey questions (such as whether one agrees "If blacks would only try harder, they could be just as well off as whites," or choosing whether blacks are "lazy" or "hardworking"), an untoward result jumps out: white Southerners are twice as likely than white Northerners to refuse to vote for the Democratic presidential candidate. Schaller's writes: "Despite the best efforts of Republican spinmeisters ... the partisan impact of racial attitudes in the South is stronger today than in the past."

What's more, if Republicans have succeeded by openly baiting a region of the country not really American (the latte-swilling Northeast), Schaller says, "The Democrats need their own 'them,' and the social conservatives who are the bedrock of Southern politics provide the most obvious and burdensome stone to hang around the Republicans' neck." Democrats should cite "Southern obstructionism as a continuing impediment to the investments and progress the country must make in the coming century." There's just one problem: You can't do that on TV.

Once upon a time, of course, pundits used to say what Schaller says: The South, sometimes, is backward. Since the late '60s, however--not coincidentally, around the time Kevin Phillips rose to fame--a new, unspoken set of rules evolved.

It happened in a moment of trauma. After the 1968 Democratic National Convention in Chicago, all the top news executives sent a wire to Mayor Richard J. Daley protesting the way their employees "were repeatedly singled out by policemen and deliberately beaten." Such was their presumption of cultural authority they couldn't imagine how anyone could disagree. Then Mayor Daley went on Walter Cronkite's show and shocked the media establishment by refusing to apologize to the beaten reporters: "Many of them are hippies themselves. They're part of this movement." Polls revealed 60 percent of Americans agreed with Daley. For the press, it triggered a dark night of the soul. In an enormously influential column, the pundit Joseph Kraft, shaken, wrote, "Mayor Daley and his supporters have a point. Most of us in what is called the communication field are not rooted in the great mass of ordinary Americans--in Middle America."

That air of alienation--that helpless feeling that we have no idea what's going on out there--has structured elite discourse about the rest of the country ever since. A set of constructs about what "the great mass of ordinary Americans" supposedly believes--much more conservative things than any media elitist would believe, basically--became reified. Pundits like Kraft--a social class that spends much of their time among people like themselves, inside the Beltway--learned to bend over backward to be fair, lest they advertise their own alienation from everyone else. On subjects that chafed them--say, the relevance of certain ugly folkways of the South in electoral politics--they just had to bend harder. Or ignore the matter altogether.

It can produce in today's TV talking head a twisted kind of neurosis: an instinctual distrust of the political appeal of anything that can be categorized as liberal, even in defiance of the actual data; and an inability to call a spade a spade--say, that people shouldn't have been beaten indiscriminately in the streets of Chicago in 1968. That's why nobody on TV says Democrats can't win in the South in the short-term--and Schaller, it has to be said, is optimistic about Democrats winning Southern gains in the long term--without playing to white voters' inclinations to see blacks as lazy. It's much easier to say that Heath Shuler represents a trend. That offends nothing but the facts.

RICK PERLSTEIN is the author of Nixonland: The Politics and Culture of the American Berserk, 1965-1972, which will be published next year.

kingfish in absentia (kingfish), Wednesday, 29 November 2006 23:21 (seventeen years ago) link

http://www.salon.com/opinion/feature/2006/11/28/kilgore_south/

nuneb (nuneb), Thursday, 30 November 2006 00:33 (seventeen years ago) link

can i just say that i heart jim webb, more and more every day?!?

Tad (Eisbär), Thursday, 30 November 2006 08:49 (seventeen years ago) link

Carville predicts Gore will get in. I'm not especially a fan of his, politically-speaking (though I might well pick him if personality were irrelevant), but I gotta say he did a pretty great job, at least against expectations, on Leno last night.

nuneb (nuneb), Thursday, 30 November 2006 15:22 (seventeen years ago) link

Gore actually does really well in entertainment settings. His appearance on Saturday Night Live was great - "The Bachelor" parody of his VP search that included him in a hot tub with Joe Lieberman.

It's only when he has to "act like a politician" that he turns into Gorebot.

Nu-Edward III (edward iii), Thursday, 30 November 2006 15:33 (seventeen years ago) link

the hot tub was the also a very clear statement that he was out of politics for the time being. the talk shows are about more than entertainment. he was entertaining, sure, but he also had more command and ease than I've seen in his other appearances. maybe, though, he's more relaxed because he isn't going anywhere or he longer needs to be president (i think he could be running for veep).

http://hotlineblog.nationaljournal.com/archives/2006/11/the_2008_democr.html#more

nuneb (nuneb), Thursday, 30 November 2006 19:24 (seventeen years ago) link

the air america bankruptcy hearing is tomorrow.

teeny (teeny), Thursday, 30 November 2006 20:32 (seventeen years ago) link

This oughta be fun. Yeah, Ed Schultz just announced that his show is moving to mid-days from 12-3pm, going up against both Rush and Al Franken.

kingfish in absentia (kingfish), Thursday, 30 November 2006 20:40 (seventeen years ago) link

Someone tell Gore that presidential debates ARE entertainment settings.

Bill Weber (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 30 November 2006 20:43 (seventeen years ago) link

a surprise candidate? my guess is in that post, but it isn't the same as his.

nuneb (nuneb), Thursday, 30 November 2006 21:34 (seventeen years ago) link

(i think he could be running for veep)

Interesting thought. Maybe after another 4 (or 8) years of Gore as VP, the country might be ready for a Gore presidency.

o. nate (o. nate), Thursday, 30 November 2006 21:40 (seventeen years ago) link

Sy Hersh's latest, about how the WH(i.e. Dick Cheney) might be/is still gunning for attacking Iran, election or no election.

kingfish in absentia (kingfish), Friday, 1 December 2006 00:27 (seventeen years ago) link

Gorebot is going nowhere. Easy to be Mr. Cool when you have nothing to lose. If anyone's openly running for VP, I'd hand that card to Vilsack.

dandy don weiner (dandy don weiner), Friday, 1 December 2006 00:51 (seventeen years ago) link

so now romney hired wetback gardeners and everyone hates mormons anyway. mccain despite his best efforts is still unloved by the christian right. gulianlli hearts fags etc.

who else we got? former fattay huckabee?

i am confused. how's this play out? is there a candidate for the loco religious 35%? someone to syphon them so mccain squeaks by? or is it that mccain is just a figment of the media's wild minds and once people really get a load of this pork-chop-hued psycho they'll run into the bland waiting arms of daddy romney?

i don't know.

jhoshea (jhoshea), Friday, 1 December 2006 15:13 (seventeen years ago) link

gorebot is serious, riding the sensiblenostalgiaregret wave. that is unless obama is in - then no one else is serious. and it's looking like he's in, no?

jhoshea (jhoshea), Friday, 1 December 2006 15:15 (seventeen years ago) link

re whistling past dixie: i enjoy the insight into the racist south, but disagree that they're the perfect boogieman for the dems. this kind of scapegoating inspires apathy, playing right into the hands of those nihilistic starve government types. democrats should go for the warm, idealistic, inclusive angle using those same bellicose right-wing nihilists (or rather their attitude, without targeting actual people) as their boogieman.

and while i do agree that the south is likely lost for a while on the presidential level, it doesn't mean there aren't congressional seats, governorships etc to be had there.

jhoshea (jhoshea), Friday, 1 December 2006 15:29 (seventeen years ago) link

Asked by a reporter yesterday about his use of Community Lawn Service with a Heart [the lawncare company], Romney, who was hosting the Republican Governors Association conference in Miami, said, "Aw, geez," and walked away.

jhoshea (jhoshea), Friday, 1 December 2006 18:54 (seventeen years ago) link

the locoreligious are not 35% and likely aren't enough to beat Giuliani, whose national image is exactly the sort of authoritative, non-permissive, non-elite persona many on the the right like. which isn't to say that wouldn't fall apart, perhaps quickly, under the scrutiny of a real campaign, which is why he's running for veep, secure in the knowledge that he's the party's biggest asset.

nuneb (nuneb), Friday, 1 December 2006 20:02 (seventeen years ago) link

i've heard the loco religious aspect is around 35% of the gop, but maybe you have to throw in a few secular psychos or something to reach that number.

i have full confidence that a significant chunk of the electorate will see what an unappealing ass guliani is once they get a good look at him - he's ugly, he's a jerk, even his voice is gross.

jhoshea (jhoshea), Friday, 1 December 2006 20:10 (seventeen years ago) link

plus the homo-lovin wife-cheatin thing doesn't play too well in the gop primaries.

jhoshea (jhoshea), Friday, 1 December 2006 20:11 (seventeen years ago) link

Is America ready for a lisping president? I don't think so.

I Am Curious (George) (Slight Return) (Rock Hardy), Friday, 1 December 2006 20:12 (seventeen years ago) link

oh and there's this guy http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2006/06/30/nyregion/Bernard-Kerik.jpg

jhoshea (jhoshea), Friday, 1 December 2006 20:12 (seventeen years ago) link

once they get a good look at him

if he's the veep, they probably won't

nuneb (nuneb), Friday, 1 December 2006 20:13 (seventeen years ago) link

plus the homo-lovin wife-cheatin thing doesn't play too well in the gop primaries.

who says he'll be in the primaries, or that, if he is, the other candidates will attack the guy they most want on the ticket, or that attacking the Saint of 9/11 won't blow back on whoever goes down that road?

nuneb (nuneb), Friday, 1 December 2006 20:16 (seventeen years ago) link

yeah maybe i could see vp. more likely he turns radioactive sooner than later.

so you think he's not gonna run at all, just wait for the nod?

jhoshea (jhoshea), Friday, 1 December 2006 20:17 (seventeen years ago) link

if it were actually a problem for him, why are all the people who are talking about what a problem it is democrats?

nuneb (nuneb), Friday, 1 December 2006 20:18 (seventeen years ago) link

also, as i mentioned, this guy:

http://www.tricountyjog.homestead.com/files/kerik.gif

he's mob connected and he's rudy's best friend.

jhoshea (jhoshea), Friday, 1 December 2006 20:19 (seventeen years ago) link

if it were actually a problem for him, why are all the people who are talking about what a problem it is democrats?

which problem?

jhoshea (jhoshea), Friday, 1 December 2006 20:20 (seventeen years ago) link

i haven't the faintest idea what he's gonna do. but he's said that he might not announce until August. sure, he's got high name id, and can only benefit from avoiding scrutiny, but it hardly suggests that he's serious about the top spot.

no one gives a shit about bernie kerik.

nuneb (nuneb), Friday, 1 December 2006 20:21 (seventeen years ago) link

i could see that continuing or it could turn in to a foley-like quagmire. the only reason guliani's avoided much kerik scrutiny up to now is because he's been in the private sector.

jhoshea (jhoshea), Friday, 1 December 2006 20:24 (seventeen years ago) link

and it's exactly the sort of thing that makes a presidential candidate think aw fuck it let's go huckabee.

jhoshea (jhoshea), Friday, 1 December 2006 20:27 (seventeen years ago) link

"It's a two-way contest between McCain and Romney."

—Rich Galen, strategist for Newt Gingrich, admitting his candidate doesn't stand a chance yesterday at a forum of GOP strategists. Galen spoke of Gingrich's potential role as a candidate who could pitch ideas and affect the debate, but had little optimism about an actual victory.

heh

jhoshea (jhoshea), Friday, 1 December 2006 20:33 (seventeen years ago) link

Obama's on Leno tonight

nuneb (nuneb), Friday, 1 December 2006 20:46 (seventeen years ago) link

anyone who can get me to watch jay leno should have no problem becoming president.

jhoshea (jhoshea), Friday, 1 December 2006 20:57 (seventeen years ago) link

A neat little run-down about all the shit said about Brandon Mayfield, the oregon lawyer who got released and paid $2 million in damages for wrongful imprisonment, 'cuz one of his fingerprints was allegedly connected with the Madrid train bombings and circumstantial evidence for everything else. The LGF posts are particularly amusing.

kingfish in absentia (kingfish), Friday, 1 December 2006 23:22 (seventeen years ago) link

best Obama piece yet in of all places the Washingtonian?

nuneb (nuneb), Monday, 4 December 2006 20:21 (seventeen years ago) link

Dick Cheney's lesbian daughter is pregnant! Congratz!

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/12/06/AR2006120600221.html

StanM (StanM), Wednesday, 6 December 2006 14:59 (seventeen years ago) link

didn't watch the leno - not sure what this means.

jhoshea (jhoshea), Wednesday, 6 December 2006 15:34 (seventeen years ago) link

huckabee forgets he's republican, advocates kindness, hospitality.

jhoshea (jhoshea), Wednesday, 6 December 2006 20:32 (seventeen years ago) link

Jerome Armstrong weighs in on the Dems

nuneb (nuneb), Wednesday, 6 December 2006 20:44 (seventeen years ago) link

why does anyone consider clark a serious candidate? dude shoots self in foot @ every opportunity.

jhoshea (jhoshea), Wednesday, 6 December 2006 20:49 (seventeen years ago) link

Bill "Cold Cash" Jefferson wins runoff election - Louisiana in being tolerant of corrupt pol non-shockah!

bliss (blass), Sunday, 10 December 2006 16:46 (seventeen years ago) link

Looks like Obama's getting set up to go.

Unfortunately, the experts have spoken, and Jesus would not vote for him. Oh well.

kingfish in absentia (kingfish), Monday, 11 December 2006 20:49 (seventeen years ago) link

I don't think Armstrong makes much sense here, but generally I haven't found his instincts to be very sound

dar1a g (dar1a g), Monday, 11 December 2006 20:56 (seventeen years ago) link

why is chuck's eyeline about 15 degrees askew from his jaw?

kingfish in absentia (kingfish), Monday, 11 December 2006 21:26 (seventeen years ago) link

that actual signing statement is like unabashedly evil. "I personally won't use these powers, think they're wrong, but let me sign them into law in case somebody more bloodthirsty than me becomes President at some point"

undervalued aerosmith tchotchkes sold in bulk, Sunday, 1 January 2012 20:36 (twelve years ago) link

otm

k3vin k., Sunday, 1 January 2012 21:53 (twelve years ago) link


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