magic: the gathering poll

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rip mws long live cockatrice

iatee, Thursday, 8 December 2011 03:40 (eight years ago) link

gah i hated blue decks. my first deck was a white one with serra angels, so really liked whoever said upthread that killing with them was very majestic ^^ second was a red/black one. i think i've had decks of every color but blue (that's how much i hate this fucking color... hate playing againsst it, hated playing with it too)

jibé, Thursday, 8 December 2011 06:37 (eight years ago) link

been trying it out - had no idea MWS was 'dead' so to speak but it would randomly crash like all the time so I hated it (plus the deckbuilding interface is really goofy)

so far, so good. I wish there was (and maybe there is?) a better way to filter cards when deckbuilding (like, show me all the type 2 legal cards that deal with the graveyard) but otherwise it's been great and doesn't crash, so that's awesome

programs like that are really good for me since it allows you to get bad decks out of your system and realize if something will or won't work before you actually go out and buy or trade for the cards

I'm in the mood to party (J0n Arbuckle), Thursday, 8 December 2011 13:14 (eight years ago) link

yeah the deckbuilder is the part that they haven't caught up to MWS on yet. i use http://www.magiccards.info advanced search for extreme card filtering options

smh, Thursday, 8 December 2011 13:36 (eight years ago) link

FORK

SandboxGarda (HI IT'S RONAN), Thursday, 8 December 2011 14:28 (eight years ago) link

dual lands

iatee, Thursday, 8 December 2011 14:40 (eight years ago) link

fork was so sick; was def in the statis/burn deck

j crunchwrap supreme, Thursday, 8 December 2011 14:41 (eight years ago) link

if any of you have the original dual lands sitting around those are worth like $40-100 each now depending on which ones

smh, Thursday, 8 December 2011 14:45 (eight years ago) link

I have exactly zero mtg cards left irl, but my cards were in such bad shape regardless. I just had piles of cards around my room, I was like scrooge mcduck w/ crappy fallen empires commons instead of gold pieces. but I mean, I was 9.

iatee, Thursday, 8 December 2011 14:48 (eight years ago) link

sold everything including a blue mox & lotsa duel lands for $400 iirc in 1999

i did briefly start buying some new stuff just to futz around w/ in 2008 or so..those are all...somewhere...

j crunchwrap supreme, Thursday, 8 December 2011 14:54 (eight years ago) link

i had a deck with a bunch of banding creatures because no one really knew how banding worked so they couldn't play against it properly

smh, Thursday, 8 December 2011 14:55 (eight years ago) link

most of the early sets were amazingly well designed in retrospect and I think that's why this game is still so playable 20 years later

but I think banding was the first-wave of shitty card abilities

iatee, Thursday, 8 December 2011 14:59 (eight years ago) link

banding was in alpha

some of the early sets are pretty suspect though. Legends only exists because some guys at WotC wanted to make magic cards for their D&D characters. Fallen Empires was so weak that it almost sunk the game commercially before it really got started.

smh, Thursday, 8 December 2011 15:12 (eight years ago) link

haha yeah I mean alpha cards were super balanced, the first expansions were a real mixed bag in comparison, shit like this

http://images.magicmadhouse.co.uk/images/products/medium/1298911919-36779600.jpg

iatee, Thursday, 8 December 2011 15:18 (eight years ago) link

yeah the problem with banding is it's fucking impossible to figure out, and then when you do it's not that great.

cad, Thursday, 8 December 2011 15:24 (eight years ago) link

I think if the game had started out w/ the early expansion set as the card base instead of the very solid and balanced alpha/beta/revised base, it prob wouldn't have caught on the way it did.

iatee, Thursday, 8 December 2011 15:28 (eight years ago) link

sets

iatee, Thursday, 8 December 2011 15:29 (eight years ago) link

yeah definitely the best thing about the recent sets, like the past 4 or 5 years maybe, is that they've really gotten rid of the terrible unplayable cards like that. when you crack a booster now you're gonna get at least 10 cards that you might consider playing in a sealed deck or a casual constructed deck, with the old sets you'd get maybe half that.

though it did make the good cards that much more exciting when you did open them

smh, Thursday, 8 December 2011 15:30 (eight years ago) link

w/ rev and gravel we played some of the 'newer' sets, and by that I mean we played up to like invasion and masques

even those are suspicious imo and after that I just feel like an 90 y/o white dude listening to a rap album or something 'what is this, this isn't magic'

iatee, Thursday, 8 December 2011 15:36 (eight years ago) link

I mean the planeswalker cards? wtf

iatee, Thursday, 8 December 2011 15:36 (eight years ago) link

i gave up on the game (for like the 4th time) when planeswalkers came out.

cad, Thursday, 8 December 2011 15:43 (eight years ago) link

invasion block was dope imo

i guess it's because i'm a bit younger than folks here and got to play w/ invasion, odyssey, etc when i was still a kid but i definitely like those sets just as much as the super-oldschool ones if not more

smh, Thursday, 8 December 2011 15:43 (eight years ago) link

Way back in the day of NetDraft and Apprentice, we used to do Arabian Nights/Antiquities/Legends/The Dark drafts which were completely unplayable. You know all the overpowered stuff like Library of Alexandria, Mana Drain, Nether Void, etc. but you guys are right on with how incredibly bad the rest of those sets were. I remember the lands that just said things like "all your legends gain bands with other legends" and didn't even produce mana!

IMO set design only started to get "good" around Mirage. In fact Alliances is really the first expansion set that wasn't like, completely terrible. Even Ice Age had a ton of cards with these walls of text that ended up doing almost nothing. In fact I remember Necropotence going completely unnoticed because nobody could figure out what it actually did! (obviously it turned out to be the best card in the set and maybe one of the greatest cards ever)

I'm in the mood to party (J0n Arbuckle), Thursday, 8 December 2011 15:52 (eight years ago) link

yeah i think that's all pretty on-point.

cad, Thursday, 8 December 2011 15:57 (eight years ago) link

yeah they were sorta designing sets on the fly until then, w/o really doing the leg-work to make sure things were balanced. even after they started doing it, people always found cards and combos to exploit that you wouldn't have thought of w/o a careful analysis.

iatee, Thursday, 8 December 2011 15:57 (eight years ago) link

Mirage was the first set they made with sealed/draft in mind iirc

smh, Thursday, 8 December 2011 16:04 (eight years ago) link

mirage block was a blast to play

cad, Thursday, 8 December 2011 16:08 (eight years ago) link

I actually liked the planeswalker idea a lot at first but they basically ruined it by A) making them all stupidly powerful, and B) making them "mythic rare", so there were much less to go around

Basically all my problems with the game now can be summarized with this card:

http://www.examiner.com/images/blog/EXID21272/images/Jace,_the_Mind_Sculptor.jpg

IIRC this thing went up to nearly $100 a pop before it got banned. I remember somebody showing me this on a spoiler list and thinking that it was one of the best cards they've ever printed, then actually seeing it and realizing that it actually costed four instead of five and was even better, needless to say every blue deck needed to play it

I'm in the mood to party (J0n Arbuckle), Thursday, 8 December 2011 16:25 (eight years ago) link

i just didn't get it--they were always so good at making powerful cards that were balanced and had some kind of drawback, and then they made planeswalkers which literally had no drawbacks.

cad, Thursday, 8 December 2011 16:26 (eight years ago) link

yeah it's like someone just wanted to fuck up the game also it doesn't even make any sense, I thought you were a planeswalker, how can you have your own planeswalker pet

iatee, Thursday, 8 December 2011 16:34 (eight years ago) link

yeah jace tms was a mistake, they basically designed it to be an all-powerful card, and it was, and people started quitting the game over it so they had to ban it in t2.

the planeswalkers they've made since then are much more build-around cards and less general-utility have-to-play-it ones, which is a bit of an improvement. i don't really mind planeswalkers but they feel more like a marketing triumph than a game design triumph, since they finally managed to create cards that are techy enough to appeal to competetive players and splashy enough to appeal to casual players at the same time.

smh, Thursday, 8 December 2011 16:34 (eight years ago) link

the drawback was that they can be attacked, but the best ones like the Jace above or the new Liliana could protect themselves.

also, this

http://magiccards.info/scans/en/m10/4.jpg

to me it seemed like some kind of ridiculous fantasy card that a 13-year old would design, but it was real and it sucked :(

I'm in the mood to party (J0n Arbuckle), Thursday, 8 December 2011 16:35 (eight years ago) link

its sad that they also printed Serra Angel in literally the same set

I'm in the mood to party (J0n Arbuckle), Thursday, 8 December 2011 16:35 (eight years ago) link

what's funny is how baneslayer angel was a $40 card that was in a ton of decks one year, and then a $5 card that saw almost no play the next year

smh, Thursday, 8 December 2011 16:40 (eight years ago) link

i like the flavor of a lot of the early expansions but they are incredibly unbalanced. 'legends' in particular is a terrible set and all the legends are retarded, little attempt to think abt e.g. how casting costs should be balanced w/mana flow. according to the internet the early sets were developed half with the idea that they could be played as standalone so cards like camel or city or in a bottle make a lot more sense/are useful in that context.

banding can be really good but its sorta overused in the early expansions imo all those legends unique lands that granted banding &c

my least favorite thing abt the new sets is that they added 'equipment' instead of basic enchantments, i tried playing a sealed tournament early this summer with w/e expansion was coming out and i just didnt vibe it at all

є(٥_ ٥)э, Thursday, 8 December 2011 16:43 (eight years ago) link

oh also the newest set has double-sided cards, if you oldschool folks need more things to wtf at

smh, Thursday, 8 December 2011 16:49 (eight years ago) link

yeah equipment is so not mtg

iatee, Thursday, 8 December 2011 16:51 (eight years ago) link

my least favorite thing abt the new sets is that they added 'equipment' instead of basic enchantments, i tried playing a sealed tournament early this summer with w/e expansion was coming out and i just didnt vibe it at all

I like the equipment. The problem with creature enchantment is that your opponent can just destroy the creature and kill two cards for the price of one. I loved the ones that were "living weapons", that was a super cool idea.

what's funny is how baneslayer angel was a $40 card that was in a ton of decks one year, and then a $5 card that saw almost no play the next year

here's why:
http://d28yjzray7dvaa.cloudfront.net/mtg-cards/new-phyrexia/dismember.jpg

Basically, as long as this card is legal, no creature w/ 5 toughness that doesn't protect itself will ever be truly "broken". This gives them the freedom to print stuff that seems really stupidly powerful (like the Phyrexian Obliterator, WTF) without having to worry about things running away from them. Now the big beaters of choice are the Titans which is almost certainly because they are 6/6s

I'm in the mood to party (J0n Arbuckle), Thursday, 8 December 2011 17:01 (eight years ago) link

I think the problem is there's this idea that you always have to give people something fresh and different and inevitable you're gonna run into diminshing returns w/ new ideas that can fit within what 'works' within the dynamics of mtg

iatee, Thursday, 8 December 2011 17:01 (eight years ago) link

equipment doesn't make sense, how can a pile of sludge have a battle axe or whatever and again, it's just not-mtg, artifacts already played that role

iatee, Thursday, 8 December 2011 17:03 (eight years ago) link

and it's inevitable*

iatee, Thursday, 8 December 2011 17:04 (eight years ago) link

i think my biggest issue with planeswalkers is that they're so big and obvious. a lot of the strongest cards in magic's history look completely innocuous the first time you see them. like, for example, this card:
http://magiccards.info/wwk/en/20.html
spent the first year or so of its existence as a bargain bin rare. then one day some pro players decided to try it in their blue-white control deck. 6 months later, it's in every deck in t2 and gets banned.

i really like the idea that there are these awesome cards lurking out there that no one's figured out yet, and planewalkers really play against that discovery process by coming with hype already attached

smh, Thursday, 8 December 2011 17:09 (eight years ago) link

equipment doesn't make sense, how can a pile of sludge have a battle axe or whatever and again, it's just not-mtg, artifacts already played that role

― iatee, Thursday, December 8, 2011 12:03 PM (11 minutes ago) Bookmark Permalink

isn't this like a classic fantasy-rpg trope/suspension of disbelief thing?

cad, Thursday, 8 December 2011 17:16 (eight years ago) link

equipment doesn't make sense, how can a pile of sludge have a battle axe or whatever and again, it's just not-mtg, artifacts already played that role

ehhh, that kind of plausability went out the window from the very first set. when you had Merfolk that lived underwater yet could still block land creatures. or the infamous Whooperwill, the bird without flying

i think my biggest issue with planeswalkers is that they're so big and obvious. a lot of the strongest cards in magic's history look completely innocuous the first time you see them. like, for example, this card:
http://magiccards.info/wwk/en/20.html
spent the first year or so of its existence as a bargain bin rare. then one day some pro players decided to try it in their blue-white control deck. 6 months later, it's in every deck in t2 and gets banned.

i really like the idea that there are these awesome cards lurking out there that no one's figured out yet, and planewalkers really play against that discovery process by coming with hype already attached

I think the game can exist with both. Stoneforge is a weird case because it really was not good when it first game out as there really wasn't any good equipment. I think it was pretty evident that it was going to be amazing if playable equipment was printed - it never should have dipped to only a buck.

In general I think it's not too tough to figure out what these cards are. I stocked up on Entombs because it was very efficient (one mana instant) and did something no other card did even though it didn't have a use in Type 2 - now it's $40. There were a bunch of Future Sight cards like that too, which were so unique and interacted with other cards in such strange ways that it's no surprise that some of them jumped so high. Tarmogoyf was the ultimate example, that thing went from $3 to about $80 in less than a year!

I'm in the mood to party (J0n Arbuckle), Thursday, 8 December 2011 17:16 (eight years ago) link

damn looking at prices right a good portfolio of magic cards was a better investment than the stock market

iatee, Thursday, 8 December 2011 17:22 (eight years ago) link

its insane how much Alpha/Beta duals go for, especially the Underground Sea, which is now worth more than any card sans Black Lotus

I'm in the mood to party (J0n Arbuckle), Thursday, 8 December 2011 17:28 (eight years ago) link

no but even like tempest rares or whatever are going for pretty good money

iatee, Thursday, 8 December 2011 17:29 (eight years ago) link

http://www.amazon.com/Force-Will-Magic-Gathering-Alliances/dp/B0030IW4GM/ref=pd_sim_sbs_t_3

I had like 6 of these ffs. someone who bought boxes of cards and sat on them could have made a killing.

iatee, Thursday, 8 December 2011 17:31 (eight years ago) link

i don't understand how most of these new cards being posted work, like not even close (especially whatever mechanics are supposed to be involved with that planeswalker).

iirc i started right when antiquities came out, and stopped right before fallen empires. a friend of mine and i managed to get all of 'the dark' cards together, no idea what happened to those.

J-Cova, Thursday, 8 December 2011 17:32 (eight years ago) link

quick google search shows that if i had kept it, i could turn it into a cool hundred bucks now

J-Cova, Thursday, 8 December 2011 17:34 (eight years ago) link


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