ILNFL sandbox thread, because you shouldn't pass up a chance to LOL @ the NY Giants

Colts absolutely should trade Peyton if they know what's good for them

wouldn't it make sense to keep peyton around a year or two and make sure a. luck's gonna make it in the pros b. he 'learns from the best'? seems a bit risky to trade one of the best qbs of all time w/o having that insurance. I mean no matter what happens, if you had to make a bet 'who's more likely to win a super bowl within the next 5 years, manning or luck', manning's still a safer bet.

I guess one counterargument is 'isn't peyton gonna catch on to this' which I think can be prevented if the colts make sure peyton is doing commercial shoots w/ literally every free moment of his time

I think Luck would have better luck learning from a good QB coach than a guy who's going to fight him for playing time until his dying breath. I don't think Peyton's going to be a good coach until he's not playing anymore, and maybe not even then. I could see him being the worst kind of micromanaging coach.

I guess. I'm sorta seeing this as a favre/rodgers parallel, which worked out pretty well for the packers, but I guess 'favre's gonna retire' was always in the air and 'manning's gonna retire' is not. a situation where a top nfl qb gets years to study and develop w/o pressure doesn't happen too often...

I guess it woulda been perfect if this happened 3 years from now

Manning to Tennessee fucking PLEASE

p. sure archie will only countenance a trade to new york

Peyton as Eli's backup, yessssss

perhaps you forget the j-e-t-s jets jets jets

wouldn't it make sense to keep peyton around a year or two and make sure a. luck's gonna make it in the pros b. he 'learns from the best'? seems a bit risky to trade one of the best qbs of all time w/o having that insurance. I mean no matter what happens, if you had to make a bet 'who's more likely to win a super bowl within the next 5 years, manning or luck', manning's still a safer bet.

both Peyton and Luck will be at their maximum value for the Colts next year. trading one (ahem) could bring back a huge haul.

I guess. I'm sorta seeing this as a favre/rodgers parallel, which worked out pretty well for the packers, but I guess 'favre's gonna retire' was always in the air and 'manning's gonna retire' is not. a situation where a top nfl qb gets years to study and develop w/o pressure doesn't happen too often...

the question is how good would Rodgers be if he started on day 1? we cant really answer that. his situation was kinda unique. keep in mind the Colts are about to come off an 0-16 season, and I don't think they're a playoff team w/ Manning anymore.

both Peyton and Luck will be at their maximum value for the Colts next year. trading one (ahem) could bring back a huge haul.

peyton yes, luck not necessarily. w/ a year or two of development could up his value.

I agree that his situation was kinda unique, but imo it's evidence, admittedly w/ a small sample set, that not throwing these guys into the fire can lead to mature, polished qbs. ya he woulda been good either way by now, it prob woulda been rougher going. but you're right in that I don't think there's a way to measure this. it's not realistic that this is gonna happen on the reg just cause of the dynamics of the nfl and draft picks, money and whatever, but if there's an opportunity for a #1 pick to learn the system pressure-free and (relatively) out of the spotlight, why not?

and coming off a 0-16 season means that the colts could afford sit on their hands for a bit cause it's not like they're gonna be super bowl contenders next year, tho I guess you can expect diminishing returns from peyton over these next years, which brings its own urgency if you're gonna keep him.

i mean you kinda just have to realize that peyty's value is never gonna be higher than it will be in a few months (he's not getting younger), get the maximum value possible from him, and roll the dice with luck, which seems like a pretty solid bet. it's not like the colts have anywhere to go but up at this point

i'd say the chances of them trading manning are like 0% but still

either way the first round is pretty much their ceiling next year

is there even really a way to trade for manning's 'actual value'? something like 10 regular season wins (haha this can't be a defensible stat, I know) plus the media/pr benefits of having 'maybe the best qb of all time' on your team. depending on a rookie qb, as good as he appears, to fill his shoes, is incredibly risky for the organization.

like let's say that the colts announced right now that they were absolutely trading peyton and gonna start luck. in that scenario, even without knowing where he went, would anyone here put money on 'luck has a higher % chance of winning a super bowl in the next 5 years than manning?'

peyton yes, luck not necessarily. w/ a year or two of development could up his value

From what I've heard, Luck is ready to play in the NFL now, and I'm sure any team you ask is going to want him as a rookie rather than waiting a year. Given how big of a prospect he is (apparently the best QB prospect since Manning), and how bad the QB situation is around the league, his value is huge right now, and he's very likely to outperform his rookie contract - if I'm looking at trading like three 1st rounders for him, I'd want him right away. Look at Cam and Dalton - Cam's probably a top ten QB right NOW, and Dalton certainly doesn't look like he needed to sit.

like let's say that the colts announced right now that they were absolutely trading peyton and gonna start luck. in that scenario, even without knowing where he went, would anyone here put money on 'luck has a higher % chance of winning a super bowl in the next 5 years than manning?'

No, but think of it the other way around. say the Colts decide to trade Luck to the Jets and start Manning - I'd definitely put money on Luck winning one before Peyton in that case

I mean, I do see the logic of sitting Luck for a few years but the Colts are missing a lot of pieces and I don't think Luck would be happy with sitting. He knows how big of a prospect he is.

the jets, who were a game away from the super bowl the last two years in a row, couldn't be super bowl contenders with manning? cmon. (vs. 0-16 team w/ rookie qb?)

obv manning wouldn't fit the culture there and there are lots of reasons why that wouldn't happen, but if we're talking just in theory, yeah, my money would totally be on the jets.

even if the colts are losing some trade value in sitting on luck for a year, they're gaining something out of having a more flexibile situation - if you're making a decision about the future of the franchise it might be worth it. but that depends on manning and luck playing nice w/ each other.

the jets, who were a game away from the super bowl the last two years in a row, couldn't be super bowl contenders with manning? cmon. (vs. 0-16 team w/ rookie qb?)

of course they would be - that's not what I'm saying - I'm saying that if you're betting on one of those QBs to win a Super Bowl soon, I'd take whichever one isn't on the Colts

but that depends on manning and luck playing nice w/ each other

everything points to this not being the case - I don't think Manning is interested in "grooming" a QB of the future and Luck isn't interested in going to a team that won't use him (IIRC he can force a trade). I can't think offhand of a 1st pick (or even like, a top 5 pick) NOT playing right away. The Rodgers situation is an outlier (mostly because of how rare it is for a good team to end up with a QB like Rodgers anyway) and it could be argued that GB may have even won a Super Bowl in 2007 had they started Rodgers from day one

of course they would be - that's not what I'm saying - I'm saying that if you're betting on one of those QBs to win a Super Bowl soon, I'd take whichever one isn't on the Colts

ah gotcha, I misread your sentence as 'trade manning to jets'. no that's a good point but it's also why it's very likely the colts as an organization are gonna end up w/ egg on their face either way.

w/ rodgers in 2007, who knows, maybe. I've always held the belief that the wilderness years were an important part of rodgers' success (he also had to make serious adjustments to his throwing motion and idk how long that took) but it's not really a hypothesis you can test

When Rodgers came in vs. the Cowboys in 2007, he definitely looked like the World's Greatest Backup and was arguably a better choice than Favre, even in his resurgance year. I mean if you look at what Cam's doing even with the lockout it makes a much better case for starting these guys right away.

yeah idk I just like the narrative of 'aaron rodgers spends years in football solitude, perfecting his art'

Seriously bummed out about this:

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/12/08/another-member-of-1994-chargers-dies-young/

i will not be watching the game tonight

JESUS CHRIST

just got back from the work HOLIDAY PARTY

I WON THE ITALIAN GIFT BASKET at the raffle

drinking Italian wine fyi

I LEFT MY CIGARETTES IN THE CAR

go browns

I would watch this with you bro, but my gf is making me watch harry potter

game over

WAIT

FUMBLE

AMERICA

Holy shit Polamalu

Wait wtf

browns d your time is now

nice run d

AHH

ben can't handle my bois

hooray! ben got injured!

D'Qwell Jackson is a BEAST.

when the browns take advantage of something wake me

unless I see Roethlisberger in a cast I assume he's ok

can someone check on dan dierdorf please? i'm concerned about his health right now

nah dude, Dierdorf is so turned on right now

THIS GUY IS TOUGH

why is he playing???

l.i.mp.