Girls thread cont.

ENBB, the friend of mine that he's dating is sort of like you, in that respect: She never thought about it, because she never noticed anyone abridging her rights, because she just did what she wanted, cheerfully, anyway, and thought, aww wasn't it nice of that person to look out for me? Meanwhile hypothetical possibly-lechy older guy or whomever is left in her wake feeling lucky that she smiled at him so glowingly and asked for his help.

O_o

― Making like Melusine (Pyth), Monday, December 5, 2011 1:49 PM (7 hours ago) Bookmark Permalink

I'm still sort of bewildered by this one. I guess maybe I'm imagining her asking for directions or something and just really don't see many man thinking that way? Or, I mean if they did think that I don't really see how it's that bad? If an attractive/nice guy smiled broadly at me in a similar situation I would probably feel good about it too?

I mean, the answer might just a be a simple "it's totally different because it's a woman v. man" but I don't know that that is necessarily always true.

I have a pretty and very charismatic friend who walks a very thin line between the kind of happy bubbly innocence Pyth is describing, and a knowing deployment of it to achieve things large and small. E.g. large = professional relationships, small = cheap drinks. I find it really hard to tell the two apart, but I do believe both are going on, the innocence and the deployment - sometimes together, but sometimes just one or the other.

I appreciate ENBB's forthrightness itt. I'm pretty ignorant about feminist thought, and I don't pay as much attention to gender relationships as I should. I don't feel the rage, and I'm not sure whether that's a bad thing or not, but I know that I *do* like open debate in threads like this and I'm glad ENBB mentioned her occasional incomprehension, because I've felt it too and wondered whether and how to address it here.

xxpost Abbs: a manager at work (who purports to be the nicest guy on the planet but who is really a douchebag in sheep's clothing) took one of my not-very-bright girl friends to task when she was working in his department, apparently because she did't say hello to people in the morning. He told her that if she initiated the "hello" she would seem more attractive and likeable. She told this to me proudly as something that changed her life, like 'wasn't that great of him to set me straight like that?". I was like, "NO!!!" She's the most attractive woman I know, she's friendly and sociable as it is, and she has always kicked ass at her job...but somehow she gets taken in by all this male senior management bullshit that she needs to somehow make herself MORE attractive to succeed. Makes me insane.

He also told another friend of mine that she shouldn't eat lunch on her own, because people will think she is a loner and not want to socialize with her.

oh and these are tidbits he only gives to women. Have NEVER in 10 years heard anecdotal evidence of him taking any of the junior male staff under his wing for protips on how to be more charming or winning at their jobs.

There may be many good reasons to say hello and friends you know & everyone you meet but that is not one of the reasons I would list.

I am having so much of an easier time being friendly to strangers now that I don't live in a place where men offer unsolicited comments in public. Before, the embarrassment and pressure I felt was twisting and killing a lot of sunnier feelings. Also when someone does make unwelcome advances, I don't see red as much & am more likely to be calm about confronting them in a non-angry way.

Although I walked home a different way today and someone did say something. Not obscene, but not fun.

My gym teacher once told me "consider the source and rise above" and I think that's good advice for dealing with bad advice of all kinds. Every once in a while I will get on a My Feminist This kick but I only have so much energy to lecture people and I kind of have to save it for my students. I figure I am not going to win anyone over by starting my sentences with "ACTUALLY,..." ***not*** that I am saying anyone here does that. But I sure have and it gets me no-where. I think maybe people change their minds about big issues by sudden surprise and the best way I can be a part of that surprise is just by living well for myself in an uncompromising way. I want to give others the room to do that, too (unless they are totally odious, ha ha). There are lots of different ways to deal with...everything...and many of them are good...so it's ok if people choose different things. Why am I saying all this???

My favorite way to deal with unsolicited comments is the over the shoulder flip-offf as I walk away. Don't even look back, just show them the bird. Oooh it burns them! It feels so good! A tiny part of me worries I am going to get my sassy ass beat to pieces one day tho.

Hahaha I've done that more than once! Just got me yelled at and called more names, because if a guy is aggressive enough to tell you about your ass in public, he's aggressive enough to resent that you don't want to hear about it.

Yes, the yelling, I love it. I LOVE THE POST-RAGE YELLING. It's why I keep parking my scooter in this one spot I know will get me passive-aggressive notes. I just love seeing someone get so mad about something so simple and harmless that I have a right to be doing (having a body in public, parking at my apartment complex). This morning someone had written
STOP
PARKING
YOU
ASS
on the dirt in the windshield and it made my day.

I don't know if it's the areas I lived in or what but I p much never get unsolicited comments on the street. Like maybe once or twice a year or something.

Hahah what? Stop parking, like, at all??? Anywhere??

when i yell at people these days it's not usually to try and change their minds in good faith, tbh; it's to blow off steam. i'm sure that doesn't speak very highly of me but what can you do.

A funny vid on a particular type of racialized streetcalling:

http://www.racialicious.com/2011/09/12/stanley-kubrick-chopsticks-and-how-not-to-harass-an-asian-girl/

"Somehow, it never seems to matter what the woman likes or appreciates, which is this unexplored dimension of street harassment. If the objection to women protesting street harassment is that we should forgive a man’s clumsy attempts to pick up a woman he finds attractive, then wouldn’t not offending a woman be pretty high on that man’s priority list?"

Yeah idk?? They don't have motorcycle spots at my apts and the property manager won't let me park on the sidewalk (which makes sense bcz then where wld ppl walk around or use their wheelchairs). I keep getting notes like this one:

http://img97.imageshack.us/img97/4262/img2253b.jpg

THEY FILL ME WITH SICK PELASURE

That Racialicious post was really good.

when i yell at people these days it's not usually to try and change their minds in good faith, tbh; it's to blow off steam. i'm sure that doesn't speak very highly of me but what can you do.

LOL yeah.

I flipped off a bus driver this morning and yelled "KISS MY ASS YOU FUCKER" but that was unrelated to ideology and all about him waiting at the bus stop while the light was read, until I arrived at the door, at which point the light turned green and he pulled away. Jagoff.

Whoah, this one is really striking something in me.

The comments in that one are pretty good too.

"Great post. Street harrassment, sexual assault, and the way violence is gendered are NOT public health issues. The framing of these problems as a public health problem rather than a systematic form of social oppression tends to place the burden for preventing them onto health professionals and social workers, tending to focus on the health problems of VICTIMS of this type of violence, instead of actually stopping the violence or questioning it. Even in the event that the problems a perpetrator may have are dealt with through public health initiatives, this tends to portray the perpetrators of that violence as having some kind of abnormality, they are "crazy" men who can't control themselves, when in fact we normalize and encourage this type of violence everyday. We need solutions that address the oppressive system, not solutions that individualize the problem. The framing of violence as a public health issue which should therefore be addressed by the government has led to victims being forced to seek help from government funded programs which individualize the problem, blame them, and define "success" in terms of success in the capitalist system, meanwhile the oppression is perpetuated by the attitude which the public health system betrays in the solutions it provides to the problem." <--I love this one.

Sorry so long!

The comments on that post were great!

“Just because we’re both Black doesn’t mean you’re entitled to my Black body. I let *you* know if and when I want to be bothered. Until then, zip it and focus on whatever the hell it was you’re doing before I walked by. And if you weren’t focused on anything, I suggest getting a focus besides me. Dig?”

Not to change the subject, but does anyone have wide feet? Its impossible to buy shoes that don't kill and online ordering is a pain in the ass, since I have to get them delivered to work. Tips? Stories? I'm tired of wearing sneakers with everything.

11 wide! Woo.

I don't have tips other than I have developed a familiarity with some brands that I know work and I take advantage of Zappos free shipping to buy more than one pair of shoes and send the ones that don't work back.

Payless and plus size clothing stores like Avenue and Lane Bryant carry wide widths in stores but their shoes are all equally crappy.

i have wide feet. i just wear men's shoes.

I do that, too.

*raises hand* 9 wide, here. I buy from Zappos when I can afford it and scrounge around at Ross/Bealls Outlet/whatever when I can't.

Oh, Nordstrom Rack generally has a good selection of shoes for the large of foot.

thanks all! i got really discouraged when i went to macy's and they were like "we carry NO wide shoes" and same with aerosoles, and i didn't want to be condemned to buying shoes online. maybe i will just have to give it another shot.

It sucks but non-crappy, non-discount warehouse shoe retailers just don't carry wide widths.

Oh, I've had some luck at places like Kohl's, DSW, and some outlets.

Also, re buying on line, I like to comparison shop between Zappos and Endless bc sometimes Endless is a lot cheaper.

*shrugs* I prefer shopping online, anyway. Better selection and no driving (I live in a place where I have to drive 7 miles to get out of the woods and 20 miles to get to a medium-sized town.)

yeah. the big zappos and DSW boxes being delivered to my cubicle are a bit embarassing :/ how do NYers who don't live in doormen buildings receive packages?

Everyone gets everything at work, and it's not considered embarrassing. :)

We aren't allowed to get personal packages at work. :/

I am not allowed to receive mail at work (and we are prohibited from dropping personal mail in the office outgoing mail bins - the mail room supervisor sent out an email to all staff with a lost of people's names and their mail (plus the unidentifed personal mail) with instructions to retrieve said items immediately) so I have things sent to Jeff at work or I pay $5 to have them sent to a UPS store front. :/

For large parts of Bklyn, the nearest "UPS hub" is like out the fuck by the airport or something. (Which btw isn't even in Brooklyn, it's in Queens.) So if no one can answer the door at your house during the day, you are kinda screwed. I didn't realize they charged extra for getting yr package from a UPS store but I just looked them up and they're all FRANCHISES, so I guess they have to make a profit somehow?!? Blerghgghh

UPS now has a website called myups.com or something where you create an account and you can then authorize them electronically to leave packages on your stoop. I've used this like 5 times already. It's great.

same here -- hub is out in the burbs, relying on neighbors always sketchy but better than trying to find one's way to the burbs

Hahahahaha packages on the stoop, that's a good one.

?

Cause ppl would swipe it them, you mean? I guess I've been lucky.

OutSIDE? All day??

yeah ¯\(º o)/¯

tho the ppl on the 2nd flr will put stuff inside the first door if they get home first

I'm glad that has worked out for you. We do that in MI, of course, but it would be a bad idea anywhere else I've lived.

me too
i barely trust my neighbors

Yeah maybe I shouldn't do it but I've been doing it a bunch lately and haven't had anything go missing yet. The street gets a lot of traffic too so I guess it's sort of surprising. Hmmmmm. I might not do it anymore.

Re getting packages: Sometimes your building's mailboxes might be in a foyer or lobby, in which case the mailman will have a skeleton key thing to get in there and can leave packages on the floor. This does not help for UPS/FedEx, though, and it also does not help if your mailboxes are outside of the building and there's nowhere to leave anything.

Oh yeah, the UPS hub is… I don't even know because when packages have ended up out there I have found it more efficient to let them send the item back to the retailer and order it again (or not) than find my way to it. Jesse has mad ethe trip and barely lived to tell the tale.

We live in a three-flat now, so no foyer and we're on a busy street and while I have occasionally successfully received packages (when I've forgotten to change the delivery address), I've also had stuff stolen. Our old apt was in a courtyard building w/ a locked gate and sometimes Fed Ex/UPS would literally throw things over the gate into the yard, once right into a snow bank.

here to report that on my picturesque street in not currently sunny Toronto, we leave notes for the post office saying 'yup, please just leave it at the door, thanks' (he generally wedges it between glass & solid door) and that's never been stolen but someone did once dumb a tomato plant over and steal the 10 cent plastic container it was in! :P

That said, I live in a triplex with my landlord and one other apartment, usually people I know (or soon do after a month or two living near them)!