Girls thread cont.

Although I'm not that happy/friendly all the time. Maybe like 70%.

i don't really feel the all consuming daily rage that you guys were discussing, but i also resist feeling rage in general when i could be using my energy to spread more positive things. not stupidly or blindly, but mindfully and intentionally

In fact, I used to be a lot angrier but years ago realized that it was doing me a lot more bad than good on a personal level and decided to let go of some of it. In general but also in respect to the topic at hand. That's sort of what I was getting at earlier.

Also Jenny I'm sorry if I came off as ultra defensive and rude earlier. Obv a sensitive topic for me.

well no one is happy or friendly ALL the time

lol, I know! I was kidding about the 70%. I can get as grumpy anyone but I think I'm happier/friendly more so than not and if I'm angry or upset at something those emotions are directed at that particular thing/person in particular. Usually.

okay so i finally put my profile pics and background on okc on friday night and as of today i have two dates
this thing may actually work

I was being sensitive, too! Angry, bitter, threatened are loaded words in this context so my first two thoughts were, roughly, "OMG! Battle stations!" and then "That's ENBB, I have to be reading this wrong."

A way in which I benefitted from sexism: hanging out with dudes and when they talked shit about various women for being sluts or prudes or too high maintenance or slovenly or too fat or always on a diet or being girly and shallow or manly and dykish, I would join in to differentiate myself from these other, inferior women and so keep these dudes from turning their criticisms on me. This was largely in high school/college but I retained tendencies to act like one of the guys because that tended to draw praise from dudes until law school when I made some brash, irrverant (I thought) comment about "What's wrong? Does your pussy hurt?" to a male classmate and my still good friend Emily was like "What the fuck is wrong with you?" causing me to reexamine my behavior.

I still cringe in embarrassment to think of that, but I appreciated the call out.

jenny that was me too

i've also been there, and also cringe at it.

Oh, here is a link that is relevant to some previous discussions: http://shakespearessister.blogspot.com/2011/12/impossibly-beautiful.html

Well, for one instance: You know the way men say, "Smile, beautiful" and in that and other ways try to make you interact with them as a happier/more agreeable person than you feel like? When that happens to her, she thinks, "That was nice of that strange man, he wants me to have a better day. I guess now I *do* feel like smiling!"

No offense to anyone but I can't imagine anyone reacting this way? Unless maybe James Franco said it? And then only maybe? Any time some strange dude tells me to smile it's GLOWER CITY, sir.

For reals. I swear.

ENBB, the friend of mine that he's dating is sort of like you, in that respect: She never thought about it, because she never noticed anyone abridging her rights, because she just did what she wanted, cheerfully, anyway, and thought, aww wasn't it nice of that person to look out for me? Meanwhile hypothetical possibly-lechy older guy or whomever is left in her wake feeling lucky that she smiled at him so glowingly and asked for his help.

O_o

― Making like Melusine (Pyth), Monday, December 5, 2011 1:49 PM (7 hours ago) Bookmark Permalink

I'm still sort of bewildered by this one. I guess maybe I'm imagining her asking for directions or something and just really don't see many man thinking that way? Or, I mean if they did think that I don't really see how it's that bad? If an attractive/nice guy smiled broadly at me in a similar situation I would probably feel good about it too?

I mean, the answer might just a be a simple "it's totally different because it's a woman v. man" but I don't know that that is necessarily always true.

I have a pretty and very charismatic friend who walks a very thin line between the kind of happy bubbly innocence Pyth is describing, and a knowing deployment of it to achieve things large and small. E.g. large = professional relationships, small = cheap drinks. I find it really hard to tell the two apart, but I do believe both are going on, the innocence and the deployment - sometimes together, but sometimes just one or the other.

I appreciate ENBB's forthrightness itt. I'm pretty ignorant about feminist thought, and I don't pay as much attention to gender relationships as I should. I don't feel the rage, and I'm not sure whether that's a bad thing or not, but I know that I *do* like open debate in threads like this and I'm glad ENBB mentioned her occasional incomprehension, because I've felt it too and wondered whether and how to address it here.

xxpost Abbs: a manager at work (who purports to be the nicest guy on the planet but who is really a douchebag in sheep's clothing) took one of my not-very-bright girl friends to task when she was working in his department, apparently because she did't say hello to people in the morning. He told her that if she initiated the "hello" she would seem more attractive and likeable. She told this to me proudly as something that changed her life, like 'wasn't that great of him to set me straight like that?". I was like, "NO!!!" She's the most attractive woman I know, she's friendly and sociable as it is, and she has always kicked ass at her job...but somehow she gets taken in by all this male senior management bullshit that she needs to somehow make herself MORE attractive to succeed. Makes me insane.

He also told another friend of mine that she shouldn't eat lunch on her own, because people will think she is a loner and not want to socialize with her.

oh and these are tidbits he only gives to women. Have NEVER in 10 years heard anecdotal evidence of him taking any of the junior male staff under his wing for protips on how to be more charming or winning at their jobs.

There may be many good reasons to say hello and friends you know & everyone you meet but that is not one of the reasons I would list.

I am having so much of an easier time being friendly to strangers now that I don't live in a place where men offer unsolicited comments in public. Before, the embarrassment and pressure I felt was twisting and killing a lot of sunnier feelings. Also when someone does make unwelcome advances, I don't see red as much & am more likely to be calm about confronting them in a non-angry way.

Although I walked home a different way today and someone did say something. Not obscene, but not fun.

My gym teacher once told me "consider the source and rise above" and I think that's good advice for dealing with bad advice of all kinds. Every once in a while I will get on a My Feminist This kick but I only have so much energy to lecture people and I kind of have to save it for my students. I figure I am not going to win anyone over by starting my sentences with "ACTUALLY,..." ***not*** that I am saying anyone here does that. But I sure have and it gets me no-where. I think maybe people change their minds about big issues by sudden surprise and the best way I can be a part of that surprise is just by living well for myself in an uncompromising way. I want to give others the room to do that, too (unless they are totally odious, ha ha). There are lots of different ways to deal with...everything...and many of them are good...so it's ok if people choose different things. Why am I saying all this???

My favorite way to deal with unsolicited comments is the over the shoulder flip-offf as I walk away. Don't even look back, just show them the bird. Oooh it burns them! It feels so good! A tiny part of me worries I am going to get my sassy ass beat to pieces one day tho.

Hahaha I've done that more than once! Just got me yelled at and called more names, because if a guy is aggressive enough to tell you about your ass in public, he's aggressive enough to resent that you don't want to hear about it.

Yes, the yelling, I love it. I LOVE THE POST-RAGE YELLING. It's why I keep parking my scooter in this one spot I know will get me passive-aggressive notes. I just love seeing someone get so mad about something so simple and harmless that I have a right to be doing (having a body in public, parking at my apartment complex). This morning someone had written
STOP
PARKING
YOU
ASS
on the dirt in the windshield and it made my day.

I don't know if it's the areas I lived in or what but I p much never get unsolicited comments on the street. Like maybe once or twice a year or something.

Hahah what? Stop parking, like, at all??? Anywhere??

when i yell at people these days it's not usually to try and change their minds in good faith, tbh; it's to blow off steam. i'm sure that doesn't speak very highly of me but what can you do.

A funny vid on a particular type of racialized streetcalling:

http://www.racialicious.com/2011/09/12/stanley-kubrick-chopsticks-and-how-not-to-harass-an-asian-girl/

"Somehow, it never seems to matter what the woman likes or appreciates, which is this unexplored dimension of street harassment. If the objection to women protesting street harassment is that we should forgive a man’s clumsy attempts to pick up a woman he finds attractive, then wouldn’t not offending a woman be pretty high on that man’s priority list?"

Yeah idk?? They don't have motorcycle spots at my apts and the property manager won't let me park on the sidewalk (which makes sense bcz then where wld ppl walk around or use their wheelchairs). I keep getting notes like this one:

http://img97.imageshack.us/img97/4262/img2253b.jpg

THEY FILL ME WITH SICK PELASURE

That Racialicious post was really good.

when i yell at people these days it's not usually to try and change their minds in good faith, tbh; it's to blow off steam. i'm sure that doesn't speak very highly of me but what can you do.

LOL yeah.

I flipped off a bus driver this morning and yelled "KISS MY ASS YOU FUCKER" but that was unrelated to ideology and all about him waiting at the bus stop while the light was read, until I arrived at the door, at which point the light turned green and he pulled away. Jagoff.

Whoah, this one is really striking something in me.

The comments in that one are pretty good too.

"Great post. Street harrassment, sexual assault, and the way violence is gendered are NOT public health issues. The framing of these problems as a public health problem rather than a systematic form of social oppression tends to place the burden for preventing them onto health professionals and social workers, tending to focus on the health problems of VICTIMS of this type of violence, instead of actually stopping the violence or questioning it. Even in the event that the problems a perpetrator may have are dealt with through public health initiatives, this tends to portray the perpetrators of that violence as having some kind of abnormality, they are "crazy" men who can't control themselves, when in fact we normalize and encourage this type of violence everyday. We need solutions that address the oppressive system, not solutions that individualize the problem. The framing of violence as a public health issue which should therefore be addressed by the government has led to victims being forced to seek help from government funded programs which individualize the problem, blame them, and define "success" in terms of success in the capitalist system, meanwhile the oppression is perpetuated by the attitude which the public health system betrays in the solutions it provides to the problem." <--I love this one.

Sorry so long!

The comments on that post were great!

“Just because we’re both Black doesn’t mean you’re entitled to my Black body. I let *you* know if and when I want to be bothered. Until then, zip it and focus on whatever the hell it was you’re doing before I walked by. And if you weren’t focused on anything, I suggest getting a focus besides me. Dig?”

Not to change the subject, but does anyone have wide feet? Its impossible to buy shoes that don't kill and online ordering is a pain in the ass, since I have to get them delivered to work. Tips? Stories? I'm tired of wearing sneakers with everything.

11 wide! Woo.

I don't have tips other than I have developed a familiarity with some brands that I know work and I take advantage of Zappos free shipping to buy more than one pair of shoes and send the ones that don't work back.

Payless and plus size clothing stores like Avenue and Lane Bryant carry wide widths in stores but their shoes are all equally crappy.

i have wide feet. i just wear men's shoes.

I do that, too.

*raises hand* 9 wide, here. I buy from Zappos when I can afford it and scrounge around at Ross/Bealls Outlet/whatever when I can't.

Oh, Nordstrom Rack generally has a good selection of shoes for the large of foot.

thanks all! i got really discouraged when i went to macy's and they were like "we carry NO wide shoes" and same with aerosoles, and i didn't want to be condemned to buying shoes online. maybe i will just have to give it another shot.

It sucks but non-crappy, non-discount warehouse shoe retailers just don't carry wide widths.

Oh, I've had some luck at places like Kohl's, DSW, and some outlets.

Also, re buying on line, I like to comparison shop between Zappos and Endless bc sometimes Endless is a lot cheaper.

*shrugs* I prefer shopping online, anyway. Better selection and no driving (I live in a place where I have to drive 7 miles to get out of the woods and 20 miles to get to a medium-sized town.)

yeah. the big zappos and DSW boxes being delivered to my cubicle are a bit embarassing :/ how do NYers who don't live in doormen buildings receive packages?

Everyone gets everything at work, and it's not considered embarrassing. :)

We aren't allowed to get personal packages at work. :/

I am not allowed to receive mail at work (and we are prohibited from dropping personal mail in the office outgoing mail bins - the mail room supervisor sent out an email to all staff with a lost of people's names and their mail (plus the unidentifed personal mail) with instructions to retrieve said items immediately) so I have things sent to Jeff at work or I pay $5 to have them sent to a UPS store front. :/

For large parts of Bklyn, the nearest "UPS hub" is like out the fuck by the airport or something. (Which btw isn't even in Brooklyn, it's in Queens.) So if no one can answer the door at your house during the day, you are kinda screwed. I didn't realize they charged extra for getting yr package from a UPS store but I just looked them up and they're all FRANCHISES, so I guess they have to make a profit somehow?!? Blerghgghh

UPS now has a website called myups.com or something where you create an account and you can then authorize them electronically to leave packages on your stoop. I've used this like 5 times already. It's great.

same here -- hub is out in the burbs, relying on neighbors always sketchy but better than trying to find one's way to the burbs