Magazine/website/record store BEST OF 2011 end-of-year list pile-up

totally disgusting that total guitar mag has only guitar music in their list

no publication can be bothered to rig or fix the results, or craft a list that "espouses" a "hivemind" or "worldview". and nor should they

yes they should. i mean maybe a generalist publication or daily paper can sorta get away with not having anything to say abt music except 'these X number of albums got made this year. we like them' but if yr publication isnt putting any thought into what yr eoy list says than maybe you dont need to make one

it is so depressing to me that anyone genuinely believs rigid, dogmatic bullshit like that

kind of like repping for an album is a political statement, as though what you're repping for are "values" or a "wider" "aesthetic" rather than the music - it doesn't acknowledge how consuming music is a messy and illogical affair, how stuff that moves you can come from any place or any aesthetic at any time, and that roping off an aesthetic is basically a mug's game

the music we talk abt on ilm/in these eoy lists is indivisible from the social/cultural/experiential context that envelops it. the 'values' (good word imo) that an album or song embody matter just as much as how a song sounds, really. pubs trying to front like all that matters are the formal qualities of ~~the music~~ are lying to themselves & their readers

anyway it doesnt make sense to me to divorce albums from context/taste and present them kinda sui generis or w/e

Henrietta: It kind of doesn't matter what I think about it personally (and I probably shouldn't have said anything on here) but the thing is, Luke, who I co-run the site with and Rory, our third member of staff, both love it. Personally I can see that there's an interesting story there and a decent debate to be had and I'm more than happy to have them on the site.

Loathe is perhaps too strong a word but I wanted to pick the most extreme example I could think of. I feel the same way about Gang Gang Dance and Ariel Pink and a few other American bands from the last couple of years but for the most part, we're all extremely happy about our top 50.

This poster ^^ above me is talking out of his/her hat. Having a list that reflects your tastes doesn't mean you don't have anything to say about music. I look at it as the one chance in the year that we get to talk about music in a much less involved way.

bullshit! that's entirely about pre-judging music based on a rigid "value system" that you're not prepared to admit is malleable or can be altered. that path is route one to eliminating all outliers and stuff that doesn't "fit" into your "value system"

xp obv

i mean that is basically how rock crit has functioned for years and years - privileging certain value systems over others - and it has not led to anywhere good.

also, it's like...it boxes you in as a critic as well. "oh no this album doesn't represent my ~values~ i can't vote for it." fuck off!

i mean lists of things are p fun to make i guess so w/e but i dont really see what possible value you two think your eoy lists have if they dont engage w/anything deeper

lol @ lex of all ppl fetting mad abt rigid value systems tho

and i mean the challenge isnt to discard albums you like from yr list because they dont fit but to engage w/ them so that you ~get~ why they fit w/ the system your already operating w/in

EOY lists don't "engage" with anything. they're lists. i "engage" with deeper things when i write words, hopefully. a list is just a list is just a list. in that great metaphor of a few weeks back, EOY lists are the glitter pens and unicorn stickers of music writing.

actually the EOY list is an opportunity to just throw my listening open and go "shorn of all the rhetoric i type over the year here's what i've actually been feeling and rinsing most"

and it's str8-up dishonest for an actual publication to game its results to fit some bullshit value system

Yeah, we spend all of the year writing about this shit. If you're only interested in what you can glean from the EOY lists and not the debate that's been taking place all year leading up to them, well, that's kind of your problem.

i dont think thats de facto true, that eoy lists just have to be lists, and some lists do a better job than others. but overall yr right of course

idk the mag i write for you do a ballot but theres some manipulation i think, which im fine w/ if it makes the list more thoughtful

seriously...y'all know how every EOY list is made? it really is as simple as just balloting writers. no publication can be bothered to rig or fix the results, or craft a list that "espouses" a "hivemind" or "worldview".

― lex pretend, Saturday, December 3, 2011 3:25 AM (10 hours ago) Bookmark Permalink

this is so cute^^

it strikes me that that's more about reinforcing the ~brand~ than pretending to engage with the deeper issues behind the music, otherwise why not engage with those issues explicitly? if you're gonna do that, be honest and write about why you've manipulated certain albums into your list, and certain albums out of it.

or y'know just do what every other publication does and don't game it because that's dumb.

would you really prefer say the ilm list to be manipulated to be more hivemindy? i really hope not

i remember a few years back accusations that the NME swapped the #1 and #2 around

XP: To be fair, we don't ballot our writers because we know just doing the tQ list between the three of us will be closer to what the site's about (whatever that is). So maybe I should just stfu.

Having talked to a lot of people about this over the years, I get the feeling that ballot fixing used to be a lot more widespread than it is now. But the reasons would be less high minded than the ones outlined above and more to do with second guessing what the readers wanted.

well isn't that why p4k (i assume this is the site our friend is talking about) "manipulates" its EOY list? to preserve its "brand" for its readership...

lex sorry but your eoy lists definitely espouse a worldview and brand

1) not consciously 2) i would be interested to know more about a worldview and brand that encompasses laura marling, meek mill and cher lloyd

I think there's a third way here. Taking this site as a prime example, our EoY is entirely democratic and I think that with as large and variegated a bunch of contributors that we have here, that there is any way that our list can be said to deliberately represent anything. And yet I absolutely believe that ILX's EoY lists reflect a very specific--almost idiosyncratic--set of 'values' that are constantly being scrutinized and often being modified from year to year.

I feel like Lamp's problem mostly is that the superficial inclusion of its token indie choices/blogsoul sit incongruously with what is usually a discernible deeper purpose within FACT, ...? But I've spent a lot of this thread misreading Lamp so

btw Doran: no problem. I just get the feeling that the John Maus record is going to be the trendy indie record that will be even more trendy to slag off. There's one or two of these every year; there's a few ppl in Outloud who really loved that record, and I finally gave in a few weeks ago and now it's one of my favorites...

think that would be redundant, i doubt anyone who's read your posts on ilm the past few years is really unclear on what that worldview is. there are people whose tastes seem genuinely less aesthetically cohesive, or more incidental, but i wouldn't say their lists are better for it. i imagine one of the many reason tim f's eoy track lists are so widely adored here is the way songs culled from so many disparate places form such a unique & appealing vision of pop

(xp to lex)

Henrietta: I should go back and try it again I guess. A lot of people who I admire and trust like it, so I see it as a failing on my part in some ways. To not 'get' it. Like Skrillex, Cheap Trick and Derek Bailey.

how does everyone know who people are? i thought i was arguing with deej not lamp

i guess everyone was listening to Peaking Lights all year and loving it, but i'm just now listening over the course of the last two days and this is shit is so rad. "Birds of Paradise dub version" might be my favorite song so far, but every song has merit. the distorted drums buried in the bg of "Summertime" are funky as hell if you concentrate on them.

yeah great album

lex you do realize that not every publication is general interest and lots of them have a slant towards specific genres or demographics? like TOTAL GUITAR magazine probably tells their writers "give us your top ten guitar albums of the year" the same way my paper in baltimore just had me tell them my top ten baltimore albums. that's not 'dishonest' or 'manipulative.'

obviously that becomes a little more complicated with something like pitchfork or the wire that kind of positions itself as being 'open-minded about the best music of any genre' or whatever but i think people reading their lists understand implicitly that there is a lot of conscious and unconscious branding going on

of course i get that, in explicit cases. but i would be interested to see a list of albums that would be considered unsuitable for the p4k or wire brands, and explicit reasoning why.

i imagine it's much milder and more ambiguous than that -- individual voters strategizing, editors looking at stuff with similar numbers of votes toward the bottom of the list and making judgment calls about what makes the cut and what doesn't.

I think the appeal of Pitiless Censors, musically, is the combination of echoey minor key vocals (which kind of remind me of some of the melodic content of late 60s garage rock and psychy with the specific synth arrangements

I feel like its the ascetic counterpart to the more libertine 1999

(xp to Doran)

I feel like Lamp's problem mostly is that the superficial inclusion of its token indie choices/blogsoul sit incongruously with what is usually a discernible deeper purpose within FACT, ...? But I've spent a lot of this thread misreading Lamp so

haha i just agree w/ you since your take always ends up more coherent :/

i guess my 'problem' with dorian and lex's take on the eoy list process is:

- we are all operating with an (unstated?) set of values that informs how we respond to music
- pop music is essentially experiential in nature
- for almost any publication their big eoy list will be one of the most viewed/widely talked abt pieces they run
- its intensely disingenuous to pretend this piece doesnt communicate something abt that underlying set of values, regardless of intent
- taking that into account why not knowingly craft a list that makes explicit these values and 'says something' abt what music is like in 2011 from yr pov
- to me 'branding' isnt really negative it helps the reader understand the context w/in which the music is generally being heard/understood

my problem with that is that any EOY list might communicate something about an individual's set of values - hopefully unconsciously! consciously doing it is nagl! - but publications can't unless they're REALLY EXPLICITLY genre-specific like kerrang or total guitar or whatever. because the value sets of all the individual critics are necessarily different.

in short - damned if you're going to extrapolate anything about MY value set from the guardian's EOY list.

Well the Guardian is a generalist publication

lex do you tend to prefer generalist music mags or specialist mags?

well p4k or the wire or w/e operates editorially w/in a sort of guiding set of values tho too which is greater than just the sum of their writers values. a newspaper is slightly different in that it exists for different reasons & in some ways for different readers but like, FACT certainly has an overarching set of aesthetic and cultural values

I feel like you could probably extrapolate something about Lex's values from the ILX EoY tbh

xp generalist

fwiw I feel like FACT has always done the indie tokenism thing and are p decent at separating wheat from chaff when it comes to buzz albums. Like I don't think Is this It? was the second-best album from the past decade or anything but the indie albums they tout are usually the ones I end up enjoying.

Of course that's purely subjective and hardly unbiased I mean, as one of ILX's few vocal proponents for the Weeknd surely Lamp you get what I'm saying...?

Some more EOY lists from around the world:

Rumore (Italia) EOY 2011

RUMORE TOP ALBUM 2011

1) James Blake - s/t
2) PJ Harvey - Let England Shake
3) Bon Iver - s/t
4) Fleet Foxes - Helplessness Blues
5) Verdena - Wow
6) Radio Moscow - The Great Escape Of Leslie Magnafuzz
7) I Cani - Il Sorprendente Album D'esordio
8) The Rapture - In The Grace Of Your Love
9) Saviours - Death's Procession
10) Danava - Emisphere Of Shadows
11) Orchid - Capricorn
12) The Might Could - s/t
13) The Horrors - Skying
14) The Peoples Temple - Sons Of Stone
15) Paolo Benvegnù - Hermann
16) Obrero - Mortui Vivos Docent
17) tUnE-yArDs - Whokill
18) Devil - Time To Repent
19) Blood Ceremony - Living With The Ancients
20) Rival Sons - Pressure And Time

Fasterlouder (AUS) EOY 2011

http://www.fasterlouder.com.au/gallery/snapshot/25641/The-Best-Albums-of-2011

50 Radiohead - King of Limbs.
49 Wagons – Rumble, Tumble and Shake.
48 Charles Bradley - No Time For Dreaming.
47 The Kills – Blood Pressures.
46 The Strokes – Angles.
45 My Morning Jacket – Circuital.
44 The Vasco Era – The Vasco Era.
43 Eagle and the Worm – Good Times.
42 Foster The People. Torches.
41 EMA - Past Life Martyred Saints.
40 Wilco – The Whole Love.
39 The Grates - Secret Rituals.
38 Teeth and Tongue – Tambourine.
37 tUnE-yArDs - W H O K I L L.
36 Iron and Wine - Kiss Each Other Clean.
35 The Black Keys – El Camino.
34 Gotye – Making Mirrors.
33 Kimbra – Vows.
32 The Panics – Rain on the Humming Wire.
31 Noel Gallagher’s High Flying Birds – Noel Gallagher’s High Flying Birds.
30 Arctic Monkeys – Suck It and See.
29 Dum Dum Girls – Only in Dreams.
28 Metronomy - The English Riviera.
27 Battles – Gloss Drop.
26 Kurt Vile – Smoke Ring for My Halo.
25 Wild Beasts – Smother
24 Fleet Foxes – Helplessness Blues.
23 Gillian Welch – The Harrow and the Harvest.
22 Stephen Malkmus and the Jicks – Mirror Traffic.
21 Feist – Metals.
20 Cut Copy – Zonoscope.
19 Jay- Z And Kanye West – Watch The Throne.
18 Laura Marling – A Creature I Don’t Know.
17 Liam Finn – FOMO.
16 Girls – Father, Son, Holy Ghost.
15 Lanie Lane – To the Horses.
14 SBTRKT – SBTRKT.
13 Wild Flag – Wild Flag.
12 Mastodon – The Hunter.
11 James Blake – James Blake.
10 TV on the Radio – Nine Types of Light.
09 Royal Headache – Royal Headache.
08 Bon Iver – Bon Iver, Bon Iver.
07 Harmony – Harmony.
06 Yuck - Yuck.
05 Fucked Up – David Comes To Life.
04 Adalita – Adalita.
03 Tom Waits – Bad As Me.
02 Unknown Mortal Orchestra – Unknown Mortal Orchestra.
01 PJ Harvey - Let England Shake.

Blitz EOY 2011 (Portugal) albums

50 - The Dodos: No color
49 - Mastodon: The Hunter
48 - Bill Callahan: Apocalypse
47 - Zomby: Dedication
46 - Wild Flag: Wild Flag
45 - TV on the Radio: Nine Types of Light
44 - Toro Y Moi: Underneath the Pine
43 - Patrick Wolf: Lupercalia
42 - David Sylvian: Died In Wool
41 - SBTRKT: SBTRKT
40 - Jessica Lea Mayfield: Tell Me
39 - Radiohead: The King of Limbs
38 - Gang Gang Dance: Eye Contact
37 - The Weeknd: House of Balloons
36 - Smith Westerns: Dye It Blonde
35 - Friendly Fires: Pala
34 - Florence and the Machine: Ceremonials
33 - The Field: Looping State Of Mind
32 - tUnE-yArDs: w h o k i l l
31 - Tinariwen: Tassili
30 - Justice: Audio, Video, Disco
29 - Metronomy: The English Riviera
28 - Afrocubism: Afrocubism
27 - Trap Them: Darker Handcarft
26 - Coldplay: Mylo Xyloto
25 - Chico Buarque: Chico
24 - Lykke Li: Wounded Rhymes
23 - Feist: Metals
22 - Wild Beasts: Smother
21 - Low: C'mon
20 - Jamie Won: Mirrorwriting
19 - Diddy Dirty Money: Last Train To Paris
18 - Jonathan Wilson: Gentle Spirit
17 - Britney Spears: Femme Fatale
16 - Beyoncé: 4
15 - Tyler, the Creator: Goblin
14 - Katy B: On a Mission
13 - Anna Calvi: Anna Calvi
12 - Destroyer: Kaputt
11 - WU LYF: Go Tell Fire to the Mountain
10 - Adele: 21
9 - Tom Waits: Bad As Me
8 - Laura Marling: A Creature I Don't Know
7 - Kurt Vile: Smoke Ring For My Halo
6 - Stephen Malkmus And The Jicks: Mirror Traffic
5 - Bon Iver: Bon Iver
4 - Fleet Foxes: Helplessness Blues
3 - Nicolas Jaar: Space Is Only Noise
2 - PJ Harvey: Let England Shake
1 - James Blake: James Blake

Sonic EOY 2011 (Sweden)

1. PJ Harvey - Let England Shake
2. Gillian Welch - The Harrow & the Harvest
3. My Morning Jacket - Circuital
4. Paul Simon - So Beautiful or So What
5. Lykke Li - Wounded Rhymes
6. James Blake - James Blake
7. Fleet Foxes - Helplessness Blues
8. Ryan Adams - Ashes & Fire
9. Tinariwen - Tassili
10. Feist - Metals
11. Bon Iver - Bon Iver
12. The Weeknd - House of Baloons
13. Shabazz Palace - Black Up
14. Wilco - The Whole Love
15. Frank Ocean - Nostalgia, Ultra
16. A. A. Bondy - Believers
17. Kurt Vile - Smoke Ring for My Halo
18. Adele - 21
19. Tim Hecker - Ravedeath, 1972
20. Tyler, The Creator - Goblin
21. Deportees - Islands & Shores
22. Zomby - Dedication
23. Ison & Fille - För evigt
24. Holy Ghost! - Holy Ghost!
25. Jonathan Johansson - Klagomuren

American Songwriter (USA) EOY 2011

American Songwriter

50 - Centro-matic: Candidate Waltz
49 - Beirut: The Rip Tide
48 - Abigail Washburn: City of Refuge
47 - Caitlin Rose: Own Side Now
46 - Loney Dear: Hall Music
45 - JEFF The Brotherhood: We Are The Champions
44 - Tristen: Charlatans At The Garden Gate
43 - Jonny Corndawg: Down On The Bikini Line
42 - Noel Gallagher: Noel Gallagher's High Flying Birds
41 - Kurt Vile: Smoke Ring For My Halo
40 - Middle Brother: Middle Brother
39 - Those Darlins: Screws Get Loose
38 - Real Estate: Days
37 - Steve Earle: I’ll Never Get Out Of This World Alive
36 - Old 97′s: The Grand Theatre, Vol. 2
35 - KORT: Invariable Heartache
34 - Joe Henry - Reverie
33 - Honeyhoney: Billy Jack
32 - The Decemberists: The King Is Dead
31 - Robert Ellis: Photographs
30 - The Felice Brothers: Celebration, Florida
29 - A. A. Bondy: Believers
28 - St. Vincent: Strange Mercy
27 - Deer Tick: Divine Providence
26 - Pieta Brown: Mercury
25 - Sarah Jarosz: Follow Me Down
24 - The War On Drugs: Slave Ambient
23 - Civil Wars: Barton Hollow
22 - Bright Eyes: The People’s Key
21 - Fleet Foxes: Helplessness Blues
20 - Laura Marling: A Creature I Don't Know
19 - Radiohead: The King of Limbs
18 - Ryan Adams: Ashes & Fire
17 - Jessica Lea Mayfield: Tell Me
16 - Miranda Lambert: Four The Record
15 - Bon Iver: Bon Iver
14 - My Morning Jacket: Circuital
13 - Lucinda Williams: Blessed
12 - Jason Isbell & The 400 Unit: Here We Rest
11 - Tom Waits: Bad As Me
10 - Feist: Metals
9 - The Black Keys: El Camino
8 - Pistol Annies: Hell on Heels
7 - Paul Simon: So Beautiful or So What
6 - Hayes Carll: KMAG YOYO
5 - Dawes: Nothing Is Wrong
4 - Drive-By Truckers: Go-Go Boots
3 - Adele: 21
2 - Gillian Welch: The Harrow And The Harvest
1 - Wilco: The Whole Love

lot of people like fleet foxes and bon iver huh

ugh, this Psychic Paramount is PAINFUL it's so good!

by "this" i just mean the song ("N5") that's streaming on the NPR list: http://www.npr.org/blogs/allsongs/2011/11/30/142900901/the-best-outer-sound-albums-of-2011?sc=tw&cc=share

i'm gonna have to check the rest of this out.

put this on while you do your dishes and you will scrub the coffee mugs with an inappropriate level of unbridled passion

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OlV8GQWStSA