Dear ILE - a plea

There is an inherent presumption here that people who can deal with environment X will behave like Y when introduced into it that I don't agree with. I also think it's incredibly disingenuous to expect that any community, whether it is online or in real life, will retain the same feel as time goes on unless said community features some level of brainwashing in its induction process.

Robin C quit posting so much b/c there was a couple of regulars who were argumentative towards him in a way he didn't like. This isn't supposition, he told me this in an email. This was also a long, long time ago. I do miss Robin participating, I must admit.

xposts

this is totally right and nothing else really needs to be said.

xpost: Define "implode".

Who's asking for that? There seems to be a feeling that the place we've arrived at currently is overly vicious, and this thread was started to ask people not to be like that. It has nothing (in my mind, at least) to do with ye glory Greenspun days in the slightest.

Collapse. Whether it's everyone leaving, or most people leaving and a core remaining.

xposts

You're right, but unless one's attitude is "nothing will ever change", there's some point in trying to bring up things people feel are making the community worse, and discuss whether or not something can or should be done about them. As we are doing now.

xpost: Collapse. Whether it's everyone leaving, or most people leaving and a core remaining.

What are you talking about??? ILE currently has well over 100 consistent, active posters every day; ditto ILM.

Neither: I certainly don't want every googler to join, or I'll spend all my time looking up MySpace passwords; nor do I mind looking bad. What I don't want is a forum that's so vicious in parts that reasonable, intelligent people arrive and go "jesus! fuck this noise", while a good portion of current members are hiding out in their "safe" threads. What is the point of that?

(Nor do I want the reverse, which is that it ends up attracting the type that are all "wayhey! get in, it's a big pagga over here, I'll join, HAY FUK U ALL")

The point is that people are finding spaces where they feel comfortable participating. I've always hated this argument because the not-so-subtle subtext is "I find all of you boring/unworthy, I wish some interesting people would show up/my real friends would come back." However, because no one wants to look bad, no one wants to come out and say that.

You can't have a forum that is wide open to anyone who wants to participate and then complain because it isn't attracting "the right people"; either the forum itself has to change so you can control who has access to it and how they post (or the forum has controls that let you filter the content to your liking, if you don't want to be draconian) or you take the good with the bad.

Because the arguments (well, some of them :) are equally good if you're comparing to "the way we think the board could be".

xpost to Laurel: Yes, we probably are! They would kill the HipHop in the 90s thread, for a start (over 30% of traffic on some days!)

how many of them are spambots?
Not terribly many, actually. They're quite a lot of traffic, but they aren't great in number.

No you wouldn't! That's like expecting every person who reads a random online article/blog is going to fill out the comment form!

I don't know if anything can be read into that, though, Stet. When the AHOT list was at its peak, there were 500+ ppl subscribed, about 30-40 of whom ever posted at all Likewise AH, that still has I believe over 1000 subscribers, I see the same names posting, def less that 50, TGS is down to ~10 regular posters, everytime I look at it I see loads of usernames in the "now online" (ie ppl who've actually taken the time to register in that case) box most of whom never post. I don't get the mentality myself, but the figure/ratio quoted does not surprise me at all.

> x-post Kate has always made it clear about what the cooler is and isn't. There's definitely no hidden agenda.

Watercooler thread #1:

"You don't have to be from the UK, but it helps to be in this timezone.

So, erm... what did you get up to at the weekend? How's the weather where you are, bloody typical, eh? Any aches and pains to complain about? How are your local busses running? How does your garden grow?

And most importantly... is it time for our tea break yet?"

Hoo, this sure aint true of me. I only wish I was zingy enough to be part of Noise, or well-read enough for ILB. What I do find unworthy is bullying and trolling and downright vileness. It's not that the "wrong people" are here, it's that a small number are being dicks, which affects the whole.

xpost yeh, fair point. Maybe I shuold say "you'd expect more new members to arrive from a pool that size". Because it feels (and I might be wrong) that it's mostly regulars here with the odd newcomer.

I got my first hate blog comment today for bitching about Carrie Underwood.

"I find all of you boring/unworthy, I wish some interesting people would show up/my real friends would come back."
BYE LOSER!

Anyway, I say the new site gets reg-free trial if we get good spam protection.

I really don't understand the balkanization complaint. People can come out of their clan threads and post elsewhere. This seems to be what happens. Clan thread just = ilx within ilx. Don't be a lurker on the regional threads, then. Visit London/DC/Chicago.

Also Ed is OTM.

Because it feels (and I might be wrong) that it's mostly regulars here with the odd newcomer.

This is the way the boards have always felt to me, largely because I already knew a sizeable number of the original posters when it started. I call that feeling "being a regular on the board".

Mic@key
Louis J
Paul Edward Wagemann

The only on that list that doesn't post here anymore is the one WE KICKED OUT.

I'm still looking for a concrete example of how this behavior has affected someones willingness to post.

I do have the feeling that the tone of the place has been a bit harsh generally recently, I must admit. I think Mark C's original post is OTM.

Everyone individually.

xxx-post

That was my point (I think) and it's about the only rule I'd want a mod to enact, apart from the obvious spam/hate speech stuff. That's how I'd change the "self policing" bit, too.

I'm still looking for a concrete example of how this behavior has affected someones willingness to post.
Kinda tricky to prove a negative, innit.

xpost: I think the funny thing is that despite what people think, NB is one of the nicest places on ILX, as a rule.

Or talking about each other on at other interweb places.

xpost