Ned Raggett reviewing "Gish (deluxe edition)" in P4k today

despite all their rage
they're still just -

Its just like, Corgan is such an easy target and pretty deserving of ignoring him completely outside the context of his pre-2000 music, why are you getting so worked up over him in 2011?

June 6, 1984
by Bill Corgan
Features editor

For our last issue, I thought I would stray from my normal record reviews and do something a little different. There are many new or fairly new bands that have yet to reach national attention, but are worthy of it. This month I'd like to discuss five bands that I think are on their way to national prominence and success.

Leading the pack is U2, a band that has had some exposure through its cable and MTV videos, but has really not cracked with a major hit. The band's latest album, "War," perfectly summed up the U2 sound. Backed by guitarist The Edge, lead singer Bono pounces upon stage and people with songs filled with valor and sincerity; specifically "Gloria" and "Sunday Bloody Sunday." Watch out for U2, because the chemistry is there, they just have to hit the right chord...

R.E.M. is a band that will probably never break the mainstream radio market, but I don't think they care. Their sound is one of Doors-like mysticism and musical similarity to Credence Clearwater Revival. My favorite song from R.E.M. is "South Central Rain (I'm Sorry)" which reminds me of what playing real music is like. Songs like these hit home. They're simple but poignant in their manner and sincerity. R.E.M. is a good thing to latch on to...

I think what typifies all these bands is sincerity and desire, sincerity of tone and the desire of success. For your own ears, check them out.

So what were the other three bands?

Who were the other three? xpost

the five bands are U, 2, R, E, and M.

Big Black, Ministry, Oingo Boingo

"Ministry's songs aren't as valorous..."

Oingo Boingo is a band that will probably never break. Bounce, maybe...

had a real moment with the new 11-minute version of "starla" last night. had too much coffee and was pretty much dimensionally ascending throughout.

I just spent 20 seconds trying to open the Gish deluxe edition

stupid slippery box oh that didn't come out right

Starla was 11 minutes to begin with, though?

can I also say that the bazillion extra pictures included in this thing confirm that the hat was a really poor decision, Billy

really want this shirt: http://www.backstage-fashion.com/Billy_Corgan_001.jpg

lol I spend so much time just listening to "Rhinoceros" and "Bury Me" that I forget I love the rest of this album too

checking out the tracklisting on Spotify;

"Glynis" left in the dust :(

Huh, that didn't even end up on the bonus disc with the greatest hits, did it. That and "Set the Ray to Jerry" are probably their two best obscure 'quiet' songs, for sure.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EX-hXJ3_h5w

saul wright; I'm gonna track down that and "Jesus Loves His Babies" and do an extended-edition PI for my own private consumption

Haha, I was typing "smashing pumpkins glynis" into Google and the autocomplete was listing "smashing pumpkins glycerine" before I finished typing. Apparently Bush confusion runs rampant.

I have never been a Smashing Pumpkins fan, but they are so dorky that I could never fathom the frothing at the mouth rage ET and his ilk had for them.

Starla was 11 minutes to begin with, though?

yep. for some reason i forgot that.

anyway something about the new version is awesome, maybe i was in a state.

they are so dorky that I could never fathom the frothing at the mouth rage ET and his ilk had for them.

yeah, this. also I feel like you should get a free pass from being called self-centered and obsessed with your personal problems and "whiny" (which are all cheap shots to begin with) if you were abused as a child.. http://billycorgan.livejournal.com/2005/07/01/

ned writes his first p4k review, and -- not three days later -- p4k's sister-site, altered zones, is abruptly cancelled.

coincidence?

yeah, this. also I feel like you should get a free pass from being called self-centered and obsessed with your personal problems and "whiny" (which are all cheap shots to begin with) if you were abused as a child

some people make good art out of these experiences, and some people make bad art. Corgan is mostly in the latter camp.

which is not to say I don't appreciate the first two albums - I do - but I'm not gonna forgive all the crap that followed out of sympathy for li'l Billy.

nah, he's in the former.

Adore doesn't really hold up for me these days (or at least it didn't the last time I went back to it) but the first 3 are all very, very good

and really calling him "whiny" is a pretty accurate description of the timbre and texture of his voice, no matter what he's singing about. when I revisited this period of the Pumpkins' stuff recently, the biggest problem I had with the material were with his incredibly thin and limited vocal range.

the less pejorative description would be "weedy"

lol I meant "reedy"

can't really think of any other singer who sounds so much like they equate asshole-clenching-uptightness with emoting

... how about every singer whose band even came close to being described as "grunge"

I mean, no one is going to really defend Billy Corgan's voice in terms of strength or pleasant on the ear, but I saw them during the Adore tour and he's kind of another animal live; his voice WORKS in a live setting in a way I don't think they ever managed to capture on record.

I think Billy's voice is legitimately pleasant on some of those early quiet songs ("Obscured," "Rhinoceros," etc)

One of the problems with having a super-idiosyncratic voice like his is how polarizing it is; I also think it works really, really well on those quieter songs but I can also see how it could easily throw someone out of the music's mood.

oh I definitely prefer his voice on the quieter stuff, it's when he starts trying to raise the volume/tension in his voice that problems set in.

totally disagree about the live thing, one of the worst, most contemptible bands I have ever seen.

... how about every singer whose band even came close to being described as "grunge"

Cobain's voice is amazing. and I am hardly a Soundgarden fan but Cornell's vocal range is remarkably wide and is one of the things that made them stand out to begin with.

I don't disagree with either of those statements, but both of them (ESPECIALLY Cornell) are as guilty of "emoting thru constipation" as Corgan

and really calling him "whiny" is a pretty accurate description of the timbre and texture of his voice, no matter what he's singing about. when I revisited this period of the Pumpkins' stuff recently, the biggest problem I had with the material were with his incredibly thin and limited vocal range

Yep. I do need to relisten to the first two albums though.

Corgan's the only one of those three who sings almost entirely through his nose, tho. It worked when Butch Vig camouflaged it in layers of MBV swirl on the first two records. It's no coincidence that the quality of their records fell off big time after Corgan decided his lyrics needed to be heard and started mixing his voice way up front. Sublimated, his angst and his melodrama was easy enough to ignore.

oh wow, the old "hello kitty kat" chorus is totally awful

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DYfLuZefGDQ

lol I meant "reedy"

right the first time

And as a final ET bonus:

http://www.collapseboard.com/reviews/albums-reviews/reviewed-in-words-smashing-pumpkins-siamese-dream-deluxe-edition/

...and as noted, I found and transcribed the review for him.

I had forgotten how MONSTROUS the drums on Gish are

Gish really is the only time you hear the band as an actual band rather than the Billy Corgan Experience, however supplemented. Having Butch Vig record that was very fortunate (if you watch the live DVD, the album captures not only the live show but nearly all the arrangements to the note).

Ned's second piece on Pitchfork about This Mortal Coil was excellent, probably has been discussed elsewhere...been away for awhile

Talked about it a bit on the Pitchfork thread.

thanks for the direction

love that you are on Pitchfork now Ned, their audience is in for a treat

based on your first two pieces and the ILM history

tea silaviver

https://www.facebook.com/eman.tea