Sandbox Romants: Wooing and Problems

If I didn't know it was ridiculous, I might panic? At the thought of a date with a total stranger.

wednesday ≠ right now, tho

Seriously, give him a chance to write you another sentence, at least!

He might be a cretin, but another sentence will tell you that definitively.

Actually, that might not be enough, but you know what I mean ;)

I haven't said no! I will go out with him, probably.

I said I was kind of busy right now

Is this a euphemism for, "Are you out of your fucking mind?" Or are you actually too busy at this 'moment' of yet-to-be defined duration which, in his eagerness to woo you, he feels may be over by Wednesday?

Well, I said I had to finish re-finishing the bathroom first, and then I'd be able to relax and do stuff. And he said, in sort of an ESL way, "Ah you have done some experiment with the walls of your bathroom?" so I'm thinking a) He may be French, and b) he doesn't realize I have like 4 days' worth of work to do.

I can work it out, it's just a drink, jeez. I was just surprised by how momentarily trapped and uncomfortable I felt when I thought about it.

yeah, i had trouble reading btwn the lines with those kind of replies iirc

A girl once told me she was washing her hair when i asked her to the cinema, i was crushed. Two years later she told me she was actually washing her hair that night and had kinda expected me to ask again.

I thought 'washing yr hair' was about as clear as it got, tbh

I've been living alone for a couple of weeks now and I realize it's actually terrible for me--I want to be home all the time, and when I go out, it kind of gives me anxiety to speak to people, even to hear them walking toward me on the street? I've never felt quite like this before.

Yes, all of you for whom this is perfectly normal may now point and laugh.

I thought 'washing yr hair' was about as clear as it got, tbh

I'd like to kiss you, but I just washed my hair. (B. Davis)

how do i find daet?
how girl get pragnant?

sandbox let us help u

I thought 'washing yr hair' was about as clear as it got, tbh

I'd say it depends on what kind of hair she has. If it's dreadlocks, for example, it might genuinely mean she can't make it to a movie after washing and drying them.

That said, I would've interpreted this as a turn-down as well.

At some point in mid-20th century USA, "I'm washing my hair" became the stock bullshit excuse to avoid going on a date with someone. Kind of how "I have a headache" is the stock excuse (in sitcoms anyway) that beleaguered wives use to avoid having sex with their husbands. So I would have taken "I'm washing my hair" to be a dis, for sure.

Interesting that both of these grew out of the assumption that women can't/won't just say "No thanks" to something they don't want to do.

i'd say it's not so much that assumption so much as an assumption that ppl in general won't straight-out say 'i'm not going to go out with you' if they can employ a well-understood euphemism

Interesting that both of these grew out of the assumption that women can't/won't just say "No thanks" to something they don't want to do.

no, they grew out of the idea that women don't want to tell their husbands that they don't want sex with them

men do this too, don't you watch seinfeld?

Using little white lies to avoid stark emotional unpleasantness is pretty universal imho

yeah I can't believe this whole "faking an illness to get out of work" thing was created under the assumption that people could not say to their bosses that they didn't want to go to work, I find that so very interesting as well

That's where "Good, how about next wednesday" came from.

or powdering your dick with bayer aspirin.

IIRC, for women, washing their hair used to be a once-a-week chore with several different sudsing-up with hand soap and rinsings to wash out all of the grease, hair spray, cigarette smoke, and whatever.

yeah, too bad for those mad men playboys who kept asking dames out on tuesday night dates.

Wtf at tt suddenly. Calling in sick to work, whether the illness is real or exaggerated, is an avoidance of yr obligations in a way that not returning someone's interest in a daet is not.

Unless you wanted to imply that women ARE obligated to agree to daets, which would be supporting the other point (and I'm sure you didn't mean that, but your parallel is bullshit).

(The wash-your-hair-once-a-day thing was pretty well established by the Mad Men period, so it really was just an excuse by then.)

Using little white lies to avoid stark emotional unpleasantness is pretty universal imhop

I think M White is otm in any case, but there's def a perceived burden on wimmens to give dudes a chance even if they're not very, or at all, interested.

Actually, the thing is that until very recently we were raised to never give a direct 'no' to anyone, even each other.

I'd say historically men have asked women out on dates more than the converse. Many women, for a variety of reasons, didn't wish to respond that they weren't at all interested, if only to spare the guy's feelings. They had to 'wash their hair'. Clever guys got it and were grateful for the gesture. Dense ones didn't but were equally spared. Guys in similar situations often do the same thing. "Hey, wanna join the guys and get some beers and play pool?" "Nah, man, I gotta wash my hair." "Wtf, bro?"

but there's def a perceived burden on wimmens to give dudes a chance even if they're not very, or at all, interested.

I've never seen it, personally, but then I wouldn't want ot go on a date w/anyone who wouldn't want to go w/me anyway so I always took a polite 'no' perfectly in stride and usually treated anything less than an enthusiastic 'yes' as highly improbable and better not to pursue.

i didnt really have a point at all, its just that saying there some implied idea that women can't say no to whatever is such bullshit, most good women have a sixth sense when it comes to avoiding hurting anyone's feelings and that's really all there is to it. (some men have it too)

remember when we were talking about the Kate B0lick article in The Atlantic last month? I liked a lot of it because I like articles with a lot of historical research, but it was irking me a lot too, the more I thought about it - like, I felt it wasn't actually about me but about a more mythical, or perhaps just tv-like, "30-40-something women" - the whole thing just left me feeling unsettled in a non-helpful way. anyway, i thought this was a good response: http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/cifamerica/2011/nov/29/single-women-an-american-obsession?

most good women have a sixth sense when it comes to avoiding hurting anyone's feelings

Is this...are you doing this on purpose?

Are you frogbs?

It's not a sixth sense, it's taught and frankly I wish it were taught to more boys.

either way. you know what I mean. sorry if I hurt your feelings.

My feelings are the least of your problems (and they're uninjured, thanks).

sorry if I hurt your feelings.

bet you wish you were a good woman now.

boy, do I. someday we'll live in a classless society. until then, I'll sit in the corner.

why dont you post what you really feel, Pyth. get it all out in the open

For clarification, I was referring to the way women are socialized to be compliant and not say no or hurt people's feelings. If you want a workplace parallel, women's tendency to accept lowball salary offers insead of negotiating for higher pay seems more apt (because it is part of the socialized compliance thing, not because women are innately incapable of salary negotiations).

I am actually engaged in an email convo with a lady friend who is ginning up the courage to call and cancel her cable because she knows they are going to give her the hard sell and she's afraid she won't be able to say no to the $200/month package. (tbf she is an extreme example and Comcast is a three-headed dragon of pressure.)

wishing i could suggest ban j0n arbubckle right now

otm

I hate saying no/hurting ppl's feelings

I think its way more "women are socialized to be able to say no to something without hurting anyone's feelings" rather than them being socialized to not say no, period

Perhaps, though that is often a distinction w/out a difference.

I mean, I'm a guy and I've been asked out by people that I don't really like and my natural instinct is to give them the runaround rather than flat out deny them, I don't think it's objectionable to say that women are generally better at that kind of stuff

I like that CiF response to the Kate B0lick article!

I felt it wasn't actually about me but about a more mythical, or perhaps just tv-like, "30-40-something women"

this encapsulates my problem with it really well! I understood and recognised and was sympathetic to the situation in it, because I'm familiar with it from media, but... i sort of can't believe in it, at the same time? I have seen a lot of tv programmes in which mothers are all 'did you know [foo] has two children now, when are you going to meet a nice boy/girl and settle down' but I have never met a person who's said their mother says that. sometimes my mother says 'i met [bar]'s mother the other day, did you know [bar] has two kids now' and i say 'jesus, already?' and my mother says 'it's not really that unusual, dear', but... that's about as far as it goes.

i guess i feel like articles/tv shows/other media in which women are still concerned with finding someone "marriageable" (beyond, like, 'not abusive' and 'has mutual feelings about you', which i like to think are minimums) reinforce the idea that this v limited idea of "marriageability" is/has been/remains a normal concept? even when the ostensible message of the article is "let's change our ideas about marriage and 'marriageability'"?

I meet women w/some desperate need to validate their life through timely marriage and optimal wedding far, far too much.

ditto.

i never do! i mean, i meet people who want to ~get married~, sure, but this kind of rom-com mindset, no. unless they're all too afraid of offending me to say it?

Lee597 or whatever number it was. Same display name as I'm using now.

unless I'm really lj

Oh! You're the Leeeeee from Z's thread? Really interested in IUI or a different

person? Still confusing!

No that's Leee not Lee! Different person, but yeah you've got the right guy now.

You have a hat!

It's a toque!

BTW I'm dying to know how her pregnancy is working out. Z, come on in, the sand is fine!

Ohhhhh. You didn't see that update before ILX went down?

I am sure there are some fans of Brony on Fetlife. There's a pretty wide range of people on there. It varies from the sorta kinky S&M-centric to some really dark shit that I try to stay away from.

Thanks to ILX, i'm learning to speak British and Canadian!

No - what did I miss? I'm afraid bad news from the way you put it.

Yes, sad news, but that was some weeks ago now and I'm sure zora has dealt/is dealing w it. Wish her all wonderful things in the meantime.

I didn't log on that weekend, not knowing ILX was going to be down when I returned.

That's just awful - so close.

Just when I thought the US couldn't be any more f%cked up that it is, I learn about UK adoption and artificial-insemination laws; at least infertile women (or those with infertile male partners) can usually try to get pregnant for free in America without massive expenses and repercussions for the donor.

The friend I mentioned in that thread still isn't pregnant after 5 months of trying either. At least it's not costing her much, at least monetarily. It's ravishing her relationship though.

Also most people into polyamory are kinda ugly.

― Homosexual II, Friday, December 9, 2011 7:20 AM (1 hour ago)

This made me lol. Its OTM, for the most part, as well. OKC is full of em.

My ex/bff/housemate N dated a poly woman for a while. He said she constantly "discussed" things, like a state of play, and all the poly people would have meetings, it sounded more like some weird group therapy thing than anything remotely FUN.

I do know some reasonably good-looking people who are into poly! however they are also kind of crazy.

i was gonna say, beyond the ugliness, poly relationships always seem to be more obsessively contractual even than monogamous ones - for probably obvious reasons

how do ren faires fit into this

they're like the poly AGMs, all the breakout groups and committees come back to report on their progress

Hahaha yessss.

I had some geeky drama friends who did the Ren Faire thing a couple of times in HS. The amount of chlamydia they brought back always troubled me. I would have though syphilis was more historically accurate.

eww

they're like the poly AGMs, all the breakout groups and committees come back to report on their progress

― c sharp major, Thursday, December 8, 2011 5:54 PM (4 hours ago) Bookmark Permalink

lol lol occupy amory

Took my ex out for his birthday last night. His hands started wandering tentatively to my back and knee and his legs kept slipping towards mine. A few months ago I would not have been able to resist that, but last night I didn't have any problem cheerily parting ways with him at the end of the night. Either time is a wonderful healer, or I was just too exhausted to do anything than go back to my own bed. Probably both.

Guys, I'm here. I did post about the miscarriage upthread. To update viz. seeing g-b I did see him and verily the drought was ended, but I'm keeping a return to the fertility clinic in the New Year on the cards, so no official relationship atm.

ljubljana, gosh. Well done!

Yay for the drought being over! :) Hope it's uncomplicated etc.

Zora, I have had many deep thoughts today about whether I should have just gone ahead and ended my own drought last night. I dunno though, I think it would have taken me right back to Square 1 and in our case I don't see any prospect of a renewed relationship (unless his feelings for me totally changed). But that's not the case for all drought-endings with exes, not by a long shot *fondly recalls a number of incidents*

I, over the course of this weekend, did not have ljub's presence of mind with my own ex.

grats

o less grats more oof, what with she's leaving forever in 6 weeks

problem in six weeks

My long distance crush has proposed a visit to my place while she takes a long holiday break!
Trying to make this work. It all seems pretty good right now but I feel like the rest of the winter after her visit is gonna be difficult.

How did this work out?

I feel ya. I'm in a similar sitch with someone 450 miles away. I think long distance relationships can work when there's a set time that you have to be apart - one year in your case - after which you can be together. But my long-distance crush (much more than a crush actually) won't be able to move anytime in the forseeable future. We're contemplating whether I should uproot myself so we can be together. It's scary; if it doesn't work out I'll be left in an unfamiliar place with nothing.

Is it someplace you would be OK living?

Met a few friends at the bar who were there for a mini-reunion of their fellow drama nerds. Erin told me I should hit on one who'd gone to school with me (Meagan), but I thought she was doing her usual encourage-me-to-hit-on-everyone thing, so I hung out for a bit and then encouraged my friends to relocate to a less-depressing (non-karaoke) spot. And as I'm paying out my tab, Meagan taps me on the shoulder and we start talking and flirting for quite a while - all the while my friends are out of her line of sight giving me shit, and then decide to remind me that we'd all agreed to leave. I didn't even think to get her number, I was so distracted by them making asses of themselves, but we're Facebook friends now at least.

At the other bar I was the object of much scorn for cockblocking myself by not immediately talking to her when told to.

EEIS - Still waiting on her visit, can't come soon enough.
There's no certainty that we'll be able to be together after a year, either. It's all very much up in the air. I just know that she's exactly what I am looking for. Rather, the feeling I have when I am with her is what I am looking for. She had a bad year (finance-wise) where she is right now. That seems like a good sign that we may be able to somehow relocate someplace together once the opportunity arises. No way to know for sure.

This sort of thing comes in waves, huh? After seeming tentative about it before, my long-distance work crush has apparently made some time for me to visit in a couple of months. Trouble is even if anything comes of it, she has no idea where she'll land, work-wise, and neither do I. :(

So the beautiful girl mentioned on NY Eve thread has finally replied, which resolves some of the angst but the content of the reply is not exactly what I would like. Beggars can't be choosers?

Anyway, to provide slightly more context (and before I start this might sound like bragging but for tmi reasons, it's very much not) I did actually go home with this girl, and she is a whole lot more than just beautiful, and we got on really well and everything I learned about her between midnight and 9am on Friday wowed the fuck out of me. I'm aware that can still only be so much and I'm sure she's not perfect and I also know better than to pedestalise her. (She also has the same name as my recently deceased cat. Is that weird?)

Still, in her reply she says that her picking me up in the bar and taking me home was out of character because of a recently(ish) ended ltr and she doesn't think it's a good idea to start dating again - in my message I had asked her if she would like to go on a proper date. Given that she mentioned she has dated since the end of that relationship this may well be her letting me down easy in a respectful way but I understand that hadn't gone well and I want to give her the benefit of the doubt. I know I should probably, respectfully, just let it go but is there alternate option or opinion out there?

No-one I live with is up to discuss this with, so ilx, please do yer worst.

are there other options btwn 'start properly dating' and 'never seeing each other again' iyho

She isn't explicitly offering any but I'd certainly take them if there were. Not sure if I should suggest the hanging out and getting to know each other as friends with clear, delineated boundaries etc, if that's even a real thing, if it is how I'd go about mentioning it and if doing so would just be opening myself up to more potential angst.

Haven't actually been angsty like I was earlier for years. it's shit.

i was probably thinking more along the lines of friends with possible view to dating, tbh- i'd agree that a clearly staked-out 'just friends' option wouldn't be likely to help you with the girl problem tbph.

kind of 'start not-properly dating' or s/t

Do people do that? Is it something someone who doesn't want to date might be receptive to w/ someone who has clearly expressed a desire to date? (tbqh I'd probably be willing to skip the dating bit entirely but I'm an idiot like that)

well, i mean if she doesn't want to 'date' then how might she feel about you two just seeing each other

this is the problem with ppl letting ppl down gently, ime- if she's not interested romantically you'd be a sight better off knowing that, possibly in writing so's you could remind yrself in moments of weakness.

i dunno what you mean by skipping the dating bit but if you're thinkin about proposing my advice is to leave it just yet

Yeah, not quite. I may live two minutes from LJ but we haven't hung out enough for him to have influenced me that much. That says she does own a lovely flat in a very convenient location...

I guess I just take the chance? Totally agree about the letting down gently thing btw. You never really know someone well enough to be sure that's not what they're doing.

Neither one of us is around for the next couple of weeks - she to Burma, me skiing - so could just fizzle out anyway by the time we can see each other anyway. Hope not though.

i dunno, but, it seems to me that if you've already hooked up sexually, esp. as strangers, then it's kinda like the theory about the development of nuclear weapons re: warfare -- there's no going back to a pre-nuke world

ugh burma and skiing ffs why don't you just get richard curtis to direct you into each others arms after 90 minutes of lukewarm angst

not much in my court to report on. after the near miss relationship with my friend and subsequent drifting last May, I haven't really met anybody. That and my social anxiety, which comes and goes, hit me full force for about the last four months, where I am now at the point that I have difficulty even making eye contact with people, even friends and family.

I'm optimistic though. These things in my life have a way of finding me when I'm not really looking for them or don't expect them. It would be nice though if the next person I meet is in the same place I am--seems like anytime I'm looking for a serious relationship, the people I meet aren't, or vice versa (see my last girlfriend, who broke up with me, then got upset that I wasn't "upset enough" after the breakup).

Also hate to throw this into the theory, but alcohol has been involved in the genesis of every one of my relationships. Not being drunk, but enough to break down my walls long enough to actually connect with someone. Ever since I've cut back on drinking, I've had to find other ways of getting centered!

The other night I talked to a friend who I thought blew me off last summer, and it turns out he was having minor personal ish and knew he was messing up and has felt bad about it since. I got a full apology and he asked my permission to call me again sometime. Vindication is sweet!

^_^