All-Purpose NuILX thread for American Politics

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i thought kucinich was the far-left guy? feingold is a contrarian

dar1a g (dar1a g), Wednesday, 14 February 2007 22:02 (seventeen years ago) link

Dean made the relatively rare transition from perceived marginal candidate to major candidate and media phenomenon, a position in which Obama already finds himself. Dean wasn't eliminated (solely) because he'd made enemies in the party, but because even at the height of his appeal his support was limited to a sizable but insufficiently large minority without serious prospects of growing during the primary. And to the extent you believe that he was 'taken out', the people purportedly responsible for same are part of the coalition lining up behind Obama now.

nuneb (nuneb), Wednesday, 14 February 2007 22:07 (seventeen years ago) link

well, speak of the devil.. edwards just sent a message to his mailing list "Time to End the War"

here's a link to the proposals

dar1a g (dar1a g), Wednesday, 14 February 2007 22:08 (seventeen years ago) link

"even at the height of his appeal his support was limited to a sizable but insufficiently large minority without serious prospects of growing during the primary."

do you see Obama having this same problem? this is an honest question, I'm not sure myself.

"And to the extent you believe that he was 'taken out', the people purportedly responsible for same are part of the coalition lining up behind Obama now."

Well right, which is one of the reasons why I don't think he faces the same intra-party threats as Dean.

Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 14 February 2007 22:13 (seventeen years ago) link

(perhaps I should make it clear that while at this early stage I'd predict Obama as winning, that doesn't mean he's got my wholehearted support)

Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 14 February 2007 22:14 (seventeen years ago) link

do you see Obama having this same problem?

absolutely not

Obama recently pulled a 17,000-person crowd outside a major metro in the freezing cold (admittedly in his backyard). Did Dean ever pull a crowd that size in a big city in good weather?

nuneb (nuneb), Wednesday, 14 February 2007 22:17 (seventeen years ago) link

personally I don't have a good handle on who Obama specifically appeals to beyond my heavy-duty organized labor in-laws in Chicago.

Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 14 February 2007 22:23 (seventeen years ago) link

his appeal is general, perhaps, rather than specific? which would seem to be a good thing?

nuneb (nuneb), Wednesday, 14 February 2007 22:31 (seventeen years ago) link

yeah that's how I see it. I'm sure he'd appeal to my wife if she wasn't obsessed with voting exclusively for women.

Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 14 February 2007 22:34 (seventeen years ago) link

I'd caution us against using "far left" on here, lest we fall for the same bullshit line that rightwingers use when attacking politicians voicing majority-held positions.

kingfish in absentia (kingfish), Wednesday, 14 February 2007 22:34 (seventeen years ago) link

good lord, am i going crazy? i was actually liking this column by peggy noonan of all people

i'm stunned. but obama does come off as an egomaniac a lot of the time

dar1a g (dar1a g), Wednesday, 14 February 2007 22:59 (seventeen years ago) link

i think that obama certainly has a self-confident jocularity that i don't personally find especially appealing (tho it doesn't turn me off in his case either). but i believe that characteristic is demonstrably beneficial in a candidate. see, e.g., bush, george w.

nuneb (nuneb), Wednesday, 14 February 2007 23:13 (seventeen years ago) link

someone who's spent a lifetime in politics wondering why the field attracts egomaniacs is kinda perplexing. certainly its no surprise that the people that lust after power enough to sacrifice their entire lives getting it are, 9 times out of 10, egomaniacal jerks...?

Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 14 February 2007 23:17 (seventeen years ago) link

i've decided, maybe, that the thing with edwards is that it's really about his son - it's about the issues and public service and doing right and all those other things of course, but an admitted underlying motivation is seeking the ultimately meaningful life after meaning has been snatched away. and while that is unlikely to become an issue, explicitly, I think it's apparent to many people when they pay attention that he's motivated by something of the sort. and i don't think that perception will work in his favor. even if a personal motivation is rooted in something the public might have boundless sympathy for, they ultimately distrust and/or don't identify with it.

nuneb (nuneb), Wednesday, 14 February 2007 23:29 (seventeen years ago) link

you mean something like showing up daddy?

Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 14 February 2007 23:30 (seventeen years ago) link

(granted Dubya was never sold that way and has been careful to deflect attention from his family life/role)

Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 14 February 2007 23:31 (seventeen years ago) link

oh boy!. (but what will i do without my hotline tv crack? :((()

nuneb (nuneb), Wednesday, 14 February 2007 23:32 (seventeen years ago) link

xpost: like you said

nuneb (nuneb), Wednesday, 14 February 2007 23:32 (seventeen years ago) link

oh wait, he'll stay with hotline! :)

nuneb (nuneb), Wednesday, 14 February 2007 23:33 (seventeen years ago) link

maybe, but they should try and act a little more humble if they want to get very far.. i mean, what happens once it's early fall and the iowa voters have seen all the candidates enough that none of them are going to be won over by the mere fact of obama gracing them with his presence? i don't know, i guess i'm mostly waiting to hear what his campaign is about - he hasn't even been in the senate very long - what is the compelling reason to run this time around?

re: edwards, he's never brought his son into it. i don't think that's all the motivation. the whole 'son of a mill worker' thing got to be a shtick after a while but there's something very relate-able about the story, that in this country anyone should be able to work hard, make a decent living, buy a house, send their kids to college, and even dream of them becoming president..

dar1a g (dar1a g), Wednesday, 14 February 2007 23:43 (seventeen years ago) link

edwards, he's never brought his son into it

not as a theme, no. but some people, myself included, have long identified some hard-to-pin-down inauthenticity about johnny sunshine (I believe it was one of those Political Insider dudes who was complaining recently about the perceived put-on of his squinty-eye shtick), and I think it may be rooted in a protective shell built over an underlying familial sadness - to the extent that he (understandably) doesn't talk much about it, he's also in some sense not being totally on the surface. people don't want a guy wearing a mask.

nuneb (nuneb), Thursday, 15 February 2007 00:00 (seventeen years ago) link

is this a prelude to a Warner endorsement? co-ticket, *pant* *pant*?!

nuneb (nuneb), Thursday, 15 February 2007 00:10 (seventeen years ago) link

Franken introduces himself

nuneb (nuneb), Thursday, 15 February 2007 00:19 (seventeen years ago) link

what is the compelling reason to run this time around?

no one stays hot forever

nuneb (nuneb), Thursday, 15 February 2007 00:28 (seventeen years ago) link

Little Obama vs. Big Obama

obviously, Little Obama would be satisfactory to me. but Big Obama is why I lean his way.

nuneb (nuneb), Thursday, 15 February 2007 03:04 (seventeen years ago) link

even if I think that Hillary is the best policymaker of the bunch, it's possible that rhetorical skill is the most important quality in a president-not-just-a-candidate at this particular point in time

nuneb (nuneb), Thursday, 15 February 2007 03:09 (seventeen years ago) link

i don't know.. another thing about his rhetoric is, like dean, if you're with him you're with him, but the appeal is hard to fathom otherwise.. I have no doubt of HRC's competence and if she can manage to be inspiring that's icing on the cake.. but Obama, I don't have that base line leve of confidence in his ability to govern b/c he has so little experience and it seems like he's trying to sweep everyone along with this rhetoric, to be the movement candidate I guess.. and I don't think it's sustainable for a solid year. he should have waited longer to jump in the race, maybe?

i don't think edwards is so much johnny sunshine any more and that's a good thing, it did seem like a mask because it's obvious, nobody gets elected to the Senate by really being mr nice guy.

dar1a g (dar1a g), Thursday, 15 February 2007 05:03 (seventeen years ago) link

If Kucinich is "the Far Left," NO ONE is worried abt that constituency. See the new Ralph Nader documentary, the lesson of which is Fuck The Democrats.

One policy Hillary has ever "made," pls? The healthcare triumph?

[Dean's] support was limited to a sizable but insufficiently large minority without serious prospects of growing during the primary

Oh, bullshit. He was torpedoed by the DLC and MSM.

Worried about "authenticity" in prez candidate, yeah, LOL.

Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 15 February 2007 14:39 (seventeen years ago) link

and at this date, fuck the White House horserace. Are the Dems gonna defund the war by Dec 31 or not?

Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 15 February 2007 14:40 (seventeen years ago) link

Scientists starting to plan for political responses

kingfish in absentia (kingfish), Thursday, 15 February 2007 15:30 (seventeen years ago) link

Obama made his announcement surrounded by hundreds of adoring Democratic voters. And those were just the reporters. There were about 400 more reporters at Obama's announcement than Mitt Romney's, who, by the way, is more likely to be sworn in as our next president than B. Hussein Obama.

kingfish in absentia (kingfish), Thursday, 15 February 2007 18:03 (seventeen years ago) link

Man, that Coulter piece could use a thesaurus! "platitudes"

jw (ex machina), Thursday, 15 February 2007 18:31 (seventeen years ago) link

anybody mention this yet?

Limbaugh: Obama Should ‘Renounce’ His Race And Just ‘Become White’

rushblue.jpg Yesterday on his radio show, right-wing host Rush Limbaugh derided Sen. Barack Obama (D-IL) — who is biracial — for saying, “If you look African-American in this society, you’re treated as an African-American.”

Limbaugh claimed that this statement meant Obama didn’t want to be black and should “renounce it”: “If it’s not something you want to be, if you didn’t decide it, renounce it, become white!” He added, “If you don’t like it, you can switch. Well, that’s the way I see it. He’s got 50-50 in there. Say, ‘No, I’m white.’”

Tyrone Slothrop (Tyrone Slothrop), Thursday, 15 February 2007 18:39 (seventeen years ago) link

Limbaugh totally unaware of racial history of the US shocker

Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 15 February 2007 18:43 (seventeen years ago) link

Yup, it's 2007 and she's still out there

The sweetest Valentine Republicans in the U.S. Senate could give to American women would be to announce that they will filibuster until Christmas if Senate Democrats try to ratify the offensive United Nations Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Discrimination Against Women...

they be stealin' kingfish's bucket (kingfish), Thursday, 15 February 2007 20:33 (seventeen years ago) link

Guys, I think maybe we should forget the lessons of September the 11th. What do you think?

nuneb (nuneb), Thursday, 15 February 2007 22:04 (seventeen years ago) link

don't forget to surrender our entire civilization to Islamic fundamentalists!

Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 15 February 2007 22:07 (seventeen years ago) link

Here's a new one: Obama is "obsessed" with race in his first book.

Then, you have this one by Russ Limbaugh's brother, entitled "Barack Rodney King Obama"


Latest talking point about Obama is the word "platitudes."

they be stealin' kingfish's bucket (kingfish), Saturday, 17 February 2007 00:36 (seventeen years ago) link

Nice little interview with Al Franken on his senate run

If they want to turn this race into a referendum on my career as a comedian, I guess that’s their prerogative. But I think Minnesotans are smart people with a very low tolerance for b.s., and I’m going to keep talking about how we can make things better for working families. The attacks didn’t work in 2006, and they’re not going to work in 2008. They may work in 2010; it’s too early to say.

they be stealin' kingfish's bucket (kingfish), Tuesday, 20 February 2007 17:02 (seventeen years ago) link

working families

get me a gun

Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 20 February 2007 17:07 (seventeen years ago) link

Oh don't be grumpy, Grumpy

they be stealin' kingfish's bucket (kingfish), Tuesday, 20 February 2007 17:08 (seventeen years ago) link

the kind of Senators Minnesota has given the country: leaders like Hubert Humphrey

Unionbusting mayor of Minneapolis, sold out the Mississippi Freedom Democrats at '64 convention, no guts on Vietnam in '68... What a leader.

Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 20 February 2007 17:09 (seventeen years ago) link

http://techpresident.com/

these guys are tracking the web use of the candidates, incl. flickr feeds and # of myspace adds. Obama & Clinton currently lead at 44K and 23K.

Sam Brownback has 184.

they be stealin' kingfish's bucket (kingfish), Tuesday, 20 February 2007 17:20 (seventeen years ago) link

nice site - another reason i like Edwards, his web team is way ahead of everyone else

dar1a g (dar1a g), Tuesday, 20 February 2007 17:48 (seventeen years ago) link

Today's Slate of Links Kingfish Found for You to Read:
-
For those of you who remember my thread on dealing with authoritarians, one of the keystones of that thing was John Dean's great book _Conservatives without Conscience_. Dean based a lot of that book on the research of Bob Altemeyer, a professor in the Psych Dept at the University of Manitoba.

Altemeyer has now written an entire book about his work, called _The Authoritarians_, and is posting the entire thing, chapter by chapter, for free online. It's written for a mass-audience, but he actually takes the effort to add enough footnotes containing all the techie bits for those who want that. I like what i've read of it so far.

--
On a related note, John Dean's book was reviewed in an ish of the American Conservative last July, where Austim Bramwell spent the majority of the piece going after Altemeyer's work w/o understanding or explaining much of what it entailed.

Interestingly, the AmCon editors gave Altemeyer a chance to respond in the very same issue, which is great mix of "WTF are you on about?" and "here's what the stuff actually said had you read it."

they be stealin' kingfish's bucket (kingfish), Tuesday, 20 February 2007 18:53 (seventeen years ago) link

Is "working families" coding for yuppies?

Del Monte Young (ex machina), Tuesday, 20 February 2007 18:56 (seventeen years ago) link

Not in most instances I've seen. I've usually seen it used as not-really-coding as "people who actually have dayjobs instead of trust funds."

they be stealin' kingfish's bucket (kingfish), Tuesday, 20 February 2007 18:58 (seventeen years ago) link

right, but morbius and some other people hear this and other ways to talk about the folk - like "regular people" - and only hear a negative definition (i.e. "working people" is supposed to be an attack on all those people who don't work and "regular people" is in distinction to weirdos)

nuneb (nuneb), Tuesday, 20 February 2007 19:06 (seventeen years ago) link

regular people = BREEDERS

Del Monte Young (ex machina), Tuesday, 20 February 2007 19:07 (seventeen years ago) link

right, except breeders don't hear it that way (the few who do vote gop already)

nuneb (nuneb), Tuesday, 20 February 2007 19:18 (seventeen years ago) link


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