Dear ILE - a plea

-WDYLL?

-can't say
1. That's talking about yourself, which is surely OK. Posting on a WDYLL "you're an ugly shite" == not OK. And also, like I said, you can talk about someone when they're the subject of the thread (eg "What do I do about my X?")

um hello what is the "topic" of the local/clique threads exactly?
um, hi, part of the problem is that because people are too wary to use the open thread they're clustering into the fucking cliques! But, surely the topic of the DC thread is life as lived by the people in DC, no? I mean, the local threads (that I've read) are almost free of vicious attacks on other people in the thread. Which is presumably partly why they're so popular.

millions of xposts and Laurel OTM

The Natural Life Cycle of Mailing Lists

Exactly, that's the flaw in the argument. And making them exempt wouldn't work cos a rule with exeptions is no rule at all.

I would be in favour of a "DON'T BE A DICK" rule, but one person's dickish behaviour is another person's valiant defender of truth and honour.

Maybe an "IGNORE THE DICK" rule. If someone's being a dick, ignore them. No-one likes being ignored, and so the horrible people would go away and the nice people would stay being nice. How's that?

Unless there is some kind of way a majority can register their support to have the under-subscribed boards ditched, and then Stet or whoever can act on that, it seems an irreversible process.

And why are you assuming that just because I wrote 'should' I feel I have the moral high ground?

What do you actually think should happen? Leave things as they are? If it is broke don't try and fix it as you'll only end up with a different kind of broken?

even if dom puts a pic up?

Unenforceable, unworkable.

You can't really do that but not direct it at somebody in particular.

And as OTM as Laurel may be, it's asking a lot of moderators to police the boards for anyone talking about ILX, tho i guess meta threads could be zapped easily enough.

What if people who love books or cooking or whatever just start posting their threads on ILE? Why does it need to be so official?

A personal attack on an annoying dick isn't going to make them shut up or stop, it's just going to increase the amount of bickering and insulting on the boards!

xpost
And as OTM as Laurel may be, it's asking a lot of moderators to police the boards for anyone talking about ILX, tho i guess meta threads could be zapped easily enough.
Yeh, talking about ILX is probably OK, if a bit dull. Talking (shit) about other posters isn't.

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/170/381843130_1b9c23ee39.jpg

(And don't say that there is one on Firefox, blah blah)

xpostx2

What if people who love books or cooking or whatever just start posting their threads on ILE? Why does it need to be so official?

-- ledge (tomdotledge...)

otm -- also i don't dislike ILF but that's exactly what's happened so it may as well not exist.

I think the reason local threads are fight free is just familiarity. That's the same reason football threads are some of the most enjoyable, even though I'm no expert I find myself posting on them more because at least there is banter, and it's fairly constant (eg Liverpool always shit etc)

I also get this from ILM despite all the criticisms.

It's quite crazy really to think that ILE, a board which is so open ended in terms of topic, has managed to provide a sense of this familiarity or community in the past, and still does.

I think if people really want a change to the board then they have to give some of their brains to it, and start interesting threads, not attempt to regulate it.

Maybe a lot of people are busy and check in now and again and find nothing to post about. I don't know if it's a way back in but lately if I'm bored and want to have a chat on ILE I start a thread, something stupid, eg Oatibix. Selfish maybe to just use the board this way but it keeps links with people I suppose.

ROFL.

when did '133t' speak take off on ILE anyway?

Before you were here. wink wink I remember when Mark S and Starry would interact and I was like: WTF are they SAYING? Those were the days (that I found ILM very intellectually challenging hence my sporadic postings; it was just so daunting/interesting).

I don't think that ILX has gone down the dumpster really. There are much less intellectual (*cough* *cough*) threads but that has more to do with the evolution towards just knowing eachother and being pally. I can'yt imagine having intell. conversations with my husband all the time, really.

I dislike the fact that some things have splintered off, cooking, books and film belong here really. Cooking would get so much more traffic if it just kept it's threads on the main board.

VERY much OT(f)M.

Ian Riese-Moraine is the first to come to mind. Of course, the bullys might say he wasn't enriching and worthwhile, which is the reason they were mean to him, but why is up to them to decide? Anyway, there are probably many other posters who have left because of this, it's just that people probably drift off gradually instead of posting a message saying "I'M LEAVING AND THE REASON IS THIS". And no doubt there are many posters (myself included) who post less these days because of the meanness.

Or, y'know, people could stop talking about books on ILB and start a thread on ILE, as has happened.

And why are you assuming that just because I wrote 'should' I feel I have the moral high ground?

Well I thought it was strange for you to be taking a moral stance on anything, mostly you're just "This is what everyone does, why change it?"! And particularly on this, where you're going "this is happening, so we should do this more", but missing the clause about whether it's working. You're beginning to sound like you started from the Bold Step and worked backwards.

What do you actually think should happen? Leave things as they are? If it is broke don't try and fix it as you'll only end up with a different kind of broken?

Dude, I didn't say any of this. I just don't think there's any serious movement away from a core ILE. Or at least, none compared with 6 months ago.

I never had it to lose.

I think partly for the reasons I described above (also because ILB used to be a pretty robust separate site). If I start a thread about a specific book on ILB, I can be fairly confident that no-one's going to image flood it or start a row on it, because those things don't happen there.

Sadly, posting doesn't seem to happen there anymore either, so maybe it should be chopped. I don't know. It's not my board.

Never gotten any sort of explanation on this one. If it's "populist"-related, forget it.

I don't really see it as a 'moral' stance, I'm just trying to offer logical/practical solutions as I see it.

"this is happening, so we should do this more", but missing the clause about whether it's working

i'm saying it's not working because it's a halfway house solution and i'd rather have all or 'nothing', then it would work.

I think the intention should be that this should be mostly true of ILE/ILM as well!

Yeh, I guess. But look at it this way. Can you ignore someone who annoys you most of the time? (Not YOU specifically Dan, I mean YOU the reader) Let's assume you can. Well done, you've just stopped ALL personal attacks on you. Just by ignoring them!

Oh, it's their opinions that you dislike? Attack their opinions to shit, really attack them, show the world how they are wrong. But don't attack them personally, or they'll probably ignore you.

This is not true. I've been attacked/insulted crudely by someone just because I posted a view that differed from theirs. I could keep on trying to ignore them but not if they're going to continue sniping at my posts regardless of whether I 'encourage' it or not. Once or twice is fine whatever but the same shit over years is not.

Who are the Poptimists and where did they go?

including one purely for ball-breaking where people can be as nasty as they wanna be

Hi, we did this in 2004, it was called Noise Board.

xpost: JB, I did precisely that yesterday and was told on this thread that I was being ad hominem and borderline homophobic, so vigorously attacking someone's opinions isn't really going to discourage annoying bullshit behavior.

Noise Board is far beyond just ball-breaking in terms of scope tho.

It's interesting (to me, anyway) because part of me wishes there was some way that you could retain a kind of ownership on threads you start on ILE, and appeal to the mods when people are going off-topic, and so protect the thread and hopefully have it be the kind of conversation you wanted to have, but then Ronan could have been a dick and said "hey, I want all these people talking about their food allergies to start their own thread, this is a thread for Oatibix and nothing else".

I think the intention should be that this should be mostly true of ILE/ILM as well!

Well, that's how we feel, but clearly the people who think that kind of behaviour is funny don't feel that way.

or in one or two cases, frequently.

UH

(just cos ILX wasn't erally like that when i got dragged in kicking and screaming yo)

indeed, and then they'll deny they ever made a personal attack at all despite the evidence being RIGHT FUCKING THERE (see: 7 posts up)

If it was just you, then fair enough. But if everyone ignored them (kinda what I meant anyway, sorry) then they'd soon stop, and either start being nice or go away. After all, the worst thing to do to an attention seeker is to give them no attention. But maybe I've got an optimistic view of the world, and I assume that everyone on this thread is a nice person who really can just rise above any sniping and be a grown-up. Sorry guys.

If only more people were, like, "hi dere it is the internets" and didn't really connect it to life, maybe we could all shrug it off...? But then, what good would online/written/anything communication be at all?

he's talking about marcello who gives a radically different version of himself to different people on different days and you can't expect people to just ignore him cos he's a dick to steve, especially because a fair number of people know him offline and don't notice him being a dick. in fact his better friends do seem to step in and say stop being a cunt when he's trolling. so i think yr strategy is the opposite of right.

Steve, I know that Noise Board is more than just "ball-breaking," but I thought it was worth pointing out that previous instances of "why don't you start your own board?" haven't exactly diminished the level of bullying and zing culture. Since lots of people, like myself, tend to jump around from ILM to ILE to NB, the mentality of one board is often going to seep into that of another.