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I've read the Shirer. I think he's only partly right: Luther is certainly a crucial influence on ideas of German-ness, but I don't think the Nazis were explicitly "following his advice".

― My Life in the Ghosts of Bush (Modal Fugue), Monday, 4 December 2006 20:23 (seventeen years ago) link

http://hometown.aol.co.uk/sunkat701/images/x-men%20in%20danger%20room.jpg

― Allyzay is cool: with Blue n White, with Eli Manning, with NY Giants (Allyzay Ei, Monday, 4 December 2006 20:24 (seventeen years ago) link

#2 is one I've heard, along with the fact that there was no environmental/artificial mutagenic pollution, or that the world was "young" (wtf does that even mean??), and so on.

― Laurel (Laurel), Monday, 4 December 2006 20:26 (seventeen years ago) link

Even if genetic mutation/"microevolution" (ugh) does occur, evolutionary theory still is not plausible because "most mutations are harmful."

That one makes little to no sense (and yeah, I know it's not your argument): billions of three-eyed two-headed tail-having double-jointed backwards-limbed critters dead within weeks, just like they are in the present = so?

― nabisco (nabisco), Monday, 4 December 2006 20:26 (seventeen years ago) link

i think you can blame hitler on martin luther because the germans saw martin luther in him, not because hitler was directly following martin luther's teachings

for real tracer, saying fundies 'have a point' about evolution & hitler is right up there with 'hiphop is dead cuz williamsburg only jams biggie nowadays'

― and what (ooo), Monday, 4 December 2006 20:26 (seventeen years ago) link

is jack chick for real, btw?

― grbchv! (gbx), Monday, 4 December 2006 20:27 (seventeen years ago) link

(to be fair, #1 and #2 were from separate people's arguments, but I figured they worked well together)

― step hen faps (Curt1s Stephens), Monday, 4 December 2006 20:28 (seventeen years ago) link

xpost yeah, unfortunately. My uberevangelical R.A. left "This Was Your Life!" in the bathroom stall because apparently he reads him while he takes dumps.

― step hen faps (Curt1s Stephens), Monday, 4 December 2006 20:29 (seventeen years ago) link

I've read all that Erich Fromm stuff about luther and authoritiarianism and i don't buy it (though it is funny reading, "luther was one of the most profoundly hateful men ever" etc etc). europe had plenty antisemitism and self-negating hate ideology before during and after

xpost germans saw martin luther in him. really? never heard this. even so, you may as well blame il duce on dante

― Kenneth Branagh (gcannon), Monday, 4 December 2006 20:30 (seventeen years ago) link

Calvin, on the other hand, was a right bastard.

― My Life in the Ghosts of Bush (Modal Fugue), Monday, 4 December 2006 20:31 (seventeen years ago) link

i don't know what williamsburg jams on, i've been there like five times in the last five years (i was wrong about the biggie thing, by the way - hip hop is dead because ft. greene jams on young jeezy!)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francis_Galton

― Euai Kapaui (tracerhand), Monday, 4 December 2006 20:33 (seventeen years ago) link

Y'know, this thread has everything: Nazis, dinosaurs, Jack Chick, nubile t-shirt models, puppets, evolutionary theory, customer service, you name it!

― kingfish in absentia (kingfish), Monday, 4 December 2006 20:33 (seventeen years ago) link

(hahahaha I love how this thread derailed yet still somehow stayed on topic with the "PHWOAR HOT MODELS" section)

― Jesus Dan (dan perry), Monday, 4 December 2006 20:33 (seventeen years ago) link

Calvin was a right bastard.

Tell me about it.

― Laurel (Laurel), Monday, 4 December 2006 20:33 (seventeen years ago) link

dude have you read that luther book about the jews?? it sounds like somebodys steampunk hoax of a hypothetical medieval nazism, way beyond most hokey & unorganized anti-semitism from the time

― and what (ooo), Monday, 4 December 2006 20:34 (seventeen years ago) link

is blaming dante for mussolini supposed to sound entirely ridiculous? plz remember the initial frame of reference here is tracer saying its a good idea to blame darwin for hitler

― and what (ooo), Monday, 4 December 2006 20:35 (seventeen years ago) link

I remember reading a while back about Xian erotic fiction, which was fairly explicit but also only involved married couples.

― jaymc (jaymc), Monday, 4 December 2006 20:37 (seventeen years ago) link

I don't know if anyone above already pointed this out, but if you actually bother to read Darwin you realize very quickly that "Social Darwinism" is not Darwinism at all.

Martin Luther OTOH is totally overrated by our received Protestant-slanted history. It's been ingrained in the way we're taught that he was some kind of hero "reformer" that we rarely look at his terrible bastard side.

― Hurting (A-Ron Hubbard), Monday, 4 December 2006 20:37 (seventeen years ago) link

dude, ethan, seriously, I know this is your "thing" but get one (1) sarcasm, and/or play the game with someone who HASN'T been on ILX for 17 years, none of us actually buy that statement as anything but him kidding around.

― Allyzay is cool: with Blue n White, with Eli Manning, with NY Giants (Allyzay Ei, Monday, 4 December 2006 20:37 (seventeen years ago) link

nazis & eugenicists supposed darwinist inspiration for genocide is more like mel gibson blaming his kike-hating on jack daniels - 99.99999% of in the world has no problem living with evolutionary science while not setting up extermination camps

― and what (ooo), Monday, 4 December 2006 20:38 (seventeen years ago) link

(xpost to myself: Oh, I see Kingfish already mentioned that.)

― jaymc (jaymc), Monday, 4 December 2006 20:38 (seventeen years ago) link

There was a big hilarious thread on real ILX about that website promoting Christian married sex with some erotic err sound files? Things to read aloud to each other? Totally unsurprisingly, I posted on it somewhere.

― Laurel (Laurel), Monday, 4 December 2006 20:39 (seventeen years ago) link

Shocking that Kingfish flashed his deep porn knowledge before Kenan!

― Jesus Dan (dan perry), Monday, 4 December 2006 20:40 (seventeen years ago) link

I contain multitudes.

― kingfish in absentia (kingfish), Monday, 4 December 2006 20:42 (seventeen years ago) link

what, like dp?

― and what (ooo), Monday, 4 December 2006 20:43 (seventeen years ago) link

this site?

― Ed (dali), Monday, 4 December 2006 20:44 (seventeen years ago) link

Not on a monday.


xp

― kingfish in absentia (kingfish), Monday, 4 December 2006 20:44 (seventeen years ago) link

par robertson wouldn't exist without jesus - that doesn't mean i blame the former for the latter!

― Euai Kapaui (tracerhand), Monday, 4 December 2006 20:44 (seventeen years ago) link

Actually all empirical evidence shows that Pat Robertson is exixting quite nicely without Jesus.

― Jesus Dan (dan perry), Monday, 4 December 2006 20:46 (seventeen years ago) link

The Galtons were famous and highly successful Quaker gun-manufacturers and bankers

haha i love the west sometimes

― Kenneth Branagh (gcannon), Monday, 4 December 2006 20:46 (seventeen years ago) link

"I don't know about this doctrine of crucifixion, but if he thinks we're trying to crucify him, I think that we really ought to go ahead and do it. It's a whole lot cheaper than starting a war, and I don’t think any frankincense shipments will stop."

― and what (ooo), Monday, 4 December 2006 20:50 (seventeen years ago) link

Incidentally, re: Christian porn and the cute freckly t-shirt girl, I originally read this thread title as a kind of porn-spam offer, like the evangelical version of "Meet hot local women TONIGHT."

― nabisco (nabisco), Monday, 4 December 2006 20:53 (seventeen years ago) link

no i have not read the luther book about the jews, but i knew there was something like it, and that he was a rabid jew hater

agreed that the fundies (and tracer) are wrong about darwin leading to hitler, my point was that i didn't think/didn't know nazism was that closely linked, either by design or implication, with early protestantism/luther in specific, rather just euro anti-semitism in general

...contrasted with mussolini, who DID say he was the unnamed and as yet-unseen worldly savior of italy called for in the comedy (not dante's fault)

― Kenneth Branagh (gcannon), Monday, 4 December 2006 20:53 (seventeen years ago) link

Rabid jew hating was not unusual in 16th Century western europe.

― Ed (dali), Monday, 4 December 2006 20:55 (seventeen years ago) link

"Meet hot local women TONIGHT."

AT BIBLE STUDY.

― Laurel (Laurel), Monday, 4 December 2006 20:55 (seventeen years ago) link

guys i am not saying darwinism leads to hitler! sheesh!!

can't we all just love one another?

― Euai Kapaui (tracerhand), Monday, 4 December 2006 20:56 (seventeen years ago) link

http://us.st11.yimg.com/us.st.yimg.com/I/datomana_1926_32782235.jpg

― Euai Kapaui (tracerhand), Monday, 4 December 2006 20:56 (seventeen years ago) link

http://squidwranglers.wordpress.com/files/2006/05/greatest-american-hero.jpg

― whoop de doodle (kenan), Monday, 4 December 2006 20:57 (seventeen years ago) link

Lamentations 2:10 describes how “The virgins of Jerusalem have bowed their heads to the ground,” indicating how a virginal maidens should position themselves to receive anal sex.

― Johnney B has zeros off the line (stigoftdumpilx), Monday, 4 December 2006 20:59 (seventeen years ago) link

I swear that says Can't We All Just Have One Another? xxpost

― step hen faps (Curt1s Stephens), Monday, 4 December 2006 20:59 (seventeen years ago) link

the "point" that the fundies have, or could have, if they could stop just casually free-associating ideas together in the hopes that we will make a causal connection between them, is that evolutionary theory and "eugenics" gave fascists a whole new vocabulary and a whole new (seemingly) scientifically-approved toolbox to think things through with. that is all!

― Euai Kapaui (tracerhand), Monday, 4 December 2006 21:01 (seventeen years ago) link

"Cunt Me Joust Have One Another?"

― Hurting (A-Ron Hubbard), Monday, 4 December 2006 21:02 (seventeen years ago) link

http://rhosgobel.blogspot.com/2006/12/dead-sea-scrolls.html

While flipping around the TV channels today I stopped briefly on one of our local religious stations. The person preaching was rambling on about the glory of god and how the bible was the word of god (or something like that); to help make his point that the bible was the word of god, he introduced the Dead Sea scrolls. He said that they were 3,000 years old and that scholars had found that they were identical to the modern day bible. In fact, he said, "Every dot over every 'i', every cross of the 't', every comma, and every period is in the exact same place as in the bible in your hand"

― and what (ooo), Monday, 4 December 2006 21:08 (seventeen years ago) link

btw, germany was far from alone with its eugenic-led social engineering - western europe was awash in these theories as well as the US; there's a guy from virginia (can't remember his name right now) who testified that germany was "beating us at our own game" with their forced sterilization program, and compared the number of people germnay had sterilized with how many the US had done, complaining bitterly about how much more fit their population would be. (the germans on trial at nuremburg later quoted him in their own defense!)

― Euai Kapaui (tracerhand), Monday, 4 December 2006 21:09 (seventeen years ago) link

http://evolvefish.com/ShirtImages/ShirtImagesSmall/ScienceFishEatsJesusFish-sm.gif

― PappaWheelie III (PappaWheelie III), Monday, 4 December 2006 21:10 (seventeen years ago) link

Dr. Joseph S. DeJarnette

― Euai Kapaui (tracerhand), Monday, 4 December 2006 21:11 (seventeen years ago) link

http://www.technoccult.com/wp-content/Dino2.jpg

― elmo albatross (allocryptic), Monday, 4 December 2006 21:12 (seventeen years ago) link

there's a guy from virginia

that wasn't Howard W. Campbell, was it?

xp guess not

― kingfish in absentia (kingfish), Monday, 4 December 2006 21:14 (seventeen years ago) link

Umm, that Dead Sea Scrolls blogger seems to be missing the biggest point of hilarity in the whole thing.

― nabisco (nabisco), Monday, 4 December 2006 21:17 (seventeen years ago) link

I keep having to remind myself that all this massive face-on-Mars style self-delusion isn't just a random batshit conspiracy theory but is focused on preserving the specific belief that the events described in every book of the Bible are physical, material truth. I wonder if other cultures have as much trouble with the concepts of mythology and allegory as fundamentalist Christians do.
-- Euai Kapaui (tracerhan...), Today. (tracerhand)

blame the enlightenment

― friday (lfam), Monday, 4 December 2006 21:17 (seventeen years ago) link

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