Jane Dark Sugarhigh blog on Beyonce's "Irreplaceable" restoring "melodic range to pop"

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Put up or shut up.

Jesus Dan (dan perry), Tuesday, 13 February 2007 19:57 (seventeen years ago) link

dan i don't care enough for your opinion to do your legwork for you. my writing is all over the place, go find it yourself. don't expect me to read it out for you either.

lexpretend (lexpretend), Tuesday, 13 February 2007 20:03 (seventeen years ago) link

Have you ever read your dilute, tepid music "journalism" over the internet to some dude you don't actually know?

YOU WILL.

And the company that will bring it to you is AT&T.

elmo albatross (allocryptic), Tuesday, 13 February 2007 20:13 (seventeen years ago) link

Meep.

I'd like to point out that Beyonce and crew lifted the whole falling melodic hook from Joan Osborne's "Poison Apples" song. Or not.

Either way, meep.

Jubalique die Zitronen (juicefriend), Tuesday, 13 February 2007 20:30 (seventeen years ago) link

Really the only downside about this whole situation is being on the same side as Dom.

Jesus Dan (dan perry), Tuesday, 13 February 2007 20:38 (seventeen years ago) link

roffle

Jesus Dan (dan perry), Tuesday, 13 February 2007 20:45 (seventeen years ago) link

lex's klaxons review was all about image

this is cutty (mcutt), Tuesday, 13 February 2007 21:03 (seventeen years ago) link

this thread could use some plan b

coz larry (bundgee), Tuesday, 13 February 2007 21:13 (seventeen years ago) link

I think we're being a bit quick to delineate so clearly and obviously between truth and lies in "Irreplaceable". I would put "Irreplaceable" in the category of 'faith' more readily than either: it makes me think of people talking about how they're gonna be saved by Jesus etc as the house is burning down around them. It's not exactly a lie but I'm not expecting to see it happen any time soon, and even though they believe it part of them is still concerned about how awfully hot it's starting to get.

Lex's writing about rock is indeed often more focused on an idea of rock rather than the music itself. But Lex's writing about rock is the minority of his writing. Check him on R&B, hip hop, dance music etc.

Tim F (Tim F), Tuesday, 13 February 2007 22:12 (seventeen years ago) link

check him like a hockey playa

bliss (blass), Tuesday, 13 February 2007 22:17 (seventeen years ago) link

is the 'call out other ilx posters for having sand in their vagina' thread on the sandbox or ile-proper? cos

You've never once written anything that gives me the impression you know the slightest thing about music; fashion, image and public relations are way more your bag.

is not so much pompous as remarkably catty?

I don't really understand what the fuck happened there - this seems a really weird thread to be all 'oh lex you know nothing about music, only about the externals' on, especially, Dan, when your recent posts have been about the interviews and rhetoric surrounding 'Irreplaceable' and your annoyance with its straightforward narrative. idk maybe that's just me but that seems a bit further from the music than Lex saying 'perhaps one reason why cis can't believe beyonce in this song is because it's full of weepy ballad signifiers, not empowering anthem ones'. I'll grant that he's not identifying anything as specific as a clunky pre-chorus, but he is dealing with the music, and in a thread where both you and I have been talking about being blindsided by image!

cis boom bah (cis), Tuesday, 13 February 2007 23:32 (seventeen years ago) link

do we really want to delineate between "music" and "image" all that quickly?

max (maxreax), Tuesday, 13 February 2007 23:49 (seventeen years ago) link

not that there isn't a difference, but i don't know that it's so easily distinguished--ESPECIALLY w/r/t to a world-famous pop star and a song ostensibly about her relationship with her world-famous boyfriend--and i dont know that super-formalist readings of it (or really of any pop song) are going to be all that helpful or interesting.

max (maxreax), Tuesday, 13 February 2007 23:53 (seventeen years ago) link

narcisissm_of_small_differences.jpg

Matt DC (Matt DC), Wednesday, 14 February 2007 00:35 (seventeen years ago) link

Max is correct.

I don't know if "Irreplaceable" would be nearly so interesting if it was sung by a singer of whom we didn't already have a fairly detailed "image". It's precisely because it doesn't seem to accord with Beyonce's prior character that it's so startling (this sense of startlement has unfortunately begun to fade due to the song's ubiquity).

I'm not sure that Beyonce is more memorable for being shark eyes (god I hate that term though!) than for her submissive songs/ballads/etc. It's more the case that her ballads have never been as conflicted as they are here. As I think I've said before, Beyonce is usually very literal, esp. in her ballads and love songs. "Irreplaceable" is the first time she's introduced dramatic irony into that setting.

The song in her back-catalogue it's actually most like is "Survivor", which when you think about it has the exact same message and vulnerabilities - Beyonce espousing "you don't/can't affect me, I'm better than that" while the force of her performance convinces you otherwise.

It's actually Kelly who sings it (as if this matters: the Survivor era DC is swallowed up by Beyonce personality-wise), but the middle eight in "Survivor" is most on-point here: Kelly lists all the things she's too classy or morally superior to do, but it's clear that just by making the list she has thought about it, been mighty tempted, perhaps even wrote out a long diss on the internet which she deleted only after their mouse button had hovered over "submit" for a good five minutes.

I loved Beyonce singing "Listen" in Dreamgirls (a mostly patchy film, although I liked Jennifer Hudson too). Not sure how I feel about it as a single - hasn't been released here properly yet.

Tim F (Tim F), Wednesday, 14 February 2007 01:42 (seventeen years ago) link

Cis, Lex annoys the shit out of me and I let that get the better of me because work sucked ass today. I apologize for that. I still don't buy anything he's saying about the song.

Jesus Dan (dan perry), Wednesday, 14 February 2007 03:22 (seventeen years ago) link

you had a bad day

http://blog.streaming.jp/user/christomoko/blog/image/39.jpg

friday on the porch (lfam), Wednesday, 14 February 2007 04:43 (seventeen years ago) link

Now you've made it worse.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 14 February 2007 05:19 (seventeen years ago) link

It's actually Kelly who sings it (as if this matters: the Survivor era DC is swallowed up by Beyonce personality-wise), but the middle eight in "Survivor" is most on-point here: Kelly lists all the things she's too classy or morally superior to do, but it's clear that just by making the list she has thought about it, been mighty tempted, perhaps even wrote out a long diss on the internet which she deleted only after their mouse button had hovered over "submit" for a good five minutes.

yeah this is completely on point, though again i think the music is key - the lyrics hint at kelly's inner conflict but the momentum of the beats and the massive, propulsive strings leaves us in no doubt that she's convinced herself she's "better than that", and ultimately reinforces the DC image as the strong, business-like survivors they say they are. i'm not sure what the same kind of treatment would do to 'irreplaceable' - though there's a cod-reggae remix which gives it a far lighter, breezier and less conflicted feel.

lexpretend (lexpretend), Wednesday, 14 February 2007 09:21 (seventeen years ago) link

"It's actually Kelly who sings it (as if this matters: the Survivor era DC is swallowed up by Beyonce personality-wise), but the middle eight in "Survivor" is most on-point here: Kelly lists all the things she's too classy or morally superior to do, but it's clear that just by making the list she has thought about it, been mighty tempted, perhaps even wrote out a long diss on the internet which she deleted only after their mouse button had hovered over "submit" for a good five minutes."
yeah this is completely on point, though again i think the music is key - the lyrics hint at kelly's inner conflict but the momentum of the beats and the massive, propulsive strings leaves us in no doubt that she's convinced herself she's "better than that", and ultimately reinforces the DC image as the strong, business-like survivors they say they are. i'm not sure what the same kind of treatment would do to 'irreplaceable' - though there's a cod-reggae remix which gives it a far lighter, breezier and less conflicted feel.

-- lexpretend (lexusjee...), February 14th, 2007.

erm, no; the lyrics do not "hint at kelly's inner conflict"; tim is possibly right that "it's clear that just by making the list she has thought about it, been mighty tempted", but it's only clear from the delivery, not from the actual lyrics themselves. the lyrics are lock-step with the production.

likewise if 'irreplaceable' has an (entirely unremarkable in the context of this kind of song) inner conflict between the words and the feelings behind them, whether we think beyonce lands it or not is a) likely to be inflected by how beyonce talks about it herself, like it or not and b) will depend on how we hear her delivery.

temporary enrique (temporary enrique), Wednesday, 14 February 2007 10:24 (seventeen years ago) link

I don't really care how Beyonce talks about the song, (or when artists talk about their works in general,) but her delivery on "Irreplacable" is fantastic. I definitely agree with the assured lyrics/emotive performance dichotomy.

The Reverend (Rodney J. Greene), Wednesday, 14 February 2007 10:43 (seventeen years ago) link

mind you, while the delivery/lyrics split is a standard nuff trope, in this case and partly because of beyonce's "persona" (read: character, read: who beyonce is) you have to wonder how appealing this iron-clad thing is, and how cloying she can be in her other mode. pushing it into full-blown schizophrenia is probably her best bet.

temporary enrique (temporary enrique), Wednesday, 14 February 2007 10:48 (seventeen years ago) link

I dunno about that. If you push it to "full-blown schizophrenia", you get "Ring the Alarm", which annoys the hell out of me.

The Reverend (Rodney J. Greene), Wednesday, 14 February 2007 10:58 (seventeen years ago) link

good thread

resumo impetus (blueski), Wednesday, 14 February 2007 11:02 (seventeen years ago) link

is 'ring the alarm' so much schizo as just straight-ahead demented? i loved it.

lexpretend (lexpretend), Wednesday, 14 February 2007 11:06 (seventeen years ago) link

At first I didn't like "ring the alarm" but I got caught recently by the quiet part towards the end "how can you look at me...". That's what makes all the craziness around work, for me. And although I never found her hot or anything, she's pretty cute in the video at that precise moment.

AleXTC (AleXTC), Wednesday, 14 February 2007 11:37 (seventeen years ago) link

not that there isn't a difference, but i don't know that it's so easily distinguished--ESPECIALLY w/r/t to a world-famous pop star and a song ostensibly about her relationship with her world-famous boyfriend

Um, I don't think that anyone really believes on any level that this song is about kicking Jay-Z to the curb.

Also I can't see why it's important that it's Beyonce-the-star singing it, my love for it is due to B's performance irrespective of anything around it - and also that it's a great song - all this different levels of emotion that Lex is peeling off the music in Survivor are present here in the lyrics - along with one that I'm surprised no-one has mentioned, the regret that she thought he was irreplacable for a while, but it turns out that he's another in a long line of scumbags, and here's the next along in a minute.

Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Wednesday, 14 February 2007 11:58 (seventeen years ago) link

i kindof totally understand the melodic range theory thing.

these days, and not only in pop music, it seems like because jumping up and down scales has been such a big thing in the past, sticking to a few notes in an intriguing way is even more, like, captivating.

sorry it's early, and this has probably been said. meow.

Surmounter (Awn, R), Wednesday, 14 February 2007 14:55 (seventeen years ago) link

I'm not sure that Beyonce is more memorable for being shark eyes (god I hate that term though!) than for her submissive songs/ballads/etc. It's more the case that her ballads have never been as conflicted as they are here. As I think I've said before, Beyonce is usually very literal, esp. in her ballads and love songs. "Irreplaceable" is the first time she's introduced dramatic irony into that setting.

wtf is "shark eyes"

Al (Alex In Baltimore), Wednesday, 14 February 2007 15:10 (seventeen years ago) link

lol beyonce would flip if she knew this thread was happening. i think maybe we're giving her a little too much credit

homegirl prolly wasn't thinkin of any dramatic irony, she was just bustin out a few good hooks

Surmounter (Awn, R), Wednesday, 14 February 2007 15:20 (seventeen years ago) link

Beyonce has given much better performances in the past ("Say My Name", "Bills, Bills, Bills", "Bootylicious", "Lose My Breath", "Dangerously In Love", "Emotion", "So Good", "Crazy In Love"). The construction of the entire song is a shambles; it doesn't go anywhere musically or lyrically and the place it sits in is low-rent rip-off of TLC's "Unpretty".

Jesus Dan (dan perry), Wednesday, 14 February 2007 15:21 (seventeen years ago) link

whaaaat! i LOVE this song dude. okay, BUT

i have to say that i did hear "rip off" the first time i heard it cuz that part in the middle reminds me of this christina aguilera song off the first album where she's like "a love for al lseaons a love for all time"

ANYWAY, what i think, about this song is that yes it's DIFFERENT from like say my name, bills bills bills - i think because it's way more cut and pastey

but i LIKE cut and pastey, i find it deft and clver, so i say goo girl.

Surmounter (Awn, R), Wednesday, 14 February 2007 15:24 (seventeen years ago) link

"goo girl" google image search TOTALLY nsfw

elmo albatross (allocryptic), Wednesday, 14 February 2007 15:35 (seventeen years ago) link

Great minds think alike.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 14 February 2007 15:36 (seventeen years ago) link

=P

Surmounter (Awn, R), Wednesday, 14 February 2007 15:37 (seventeen years ago) link

is that the goo girl emoticon?

elmo albatross (allocryptic), Wednesday, 14 February 2007 15:47 (seventeen years ago) link

YEs duh!

Surmounter (Awn, R), Wednesday, 14 February 2007 15:53 (seventeen years ago) link

Um, I don't think that anyone really believes on any level that this song is about kicking Jay-Z to the curb.

beyonce girl u own this song i know jay z was embarresed when he heard this wit his big lip self u need to have this on radio its to good to have to search for it and u sho right u can have a nuther him in a minute u go girl tell yo man cuz sum people just be like oh its ok he wont do it again but u told him he must not know bout u lol

max (maxreax), Wednesday, 14 February 2007 17:47 (seventeen years ago) link

Beyonce in Sports Illustrated (and others at the R n roll hall of fame) Beyonce in Bikini Is Swimsuit Cover Girl for music theme issue! Hah.
By Associated Press
3 hours ago

NEW YORK - Beyonce has hit another high note, claiming the coveted cover shot of this year's Sports Illustrated swimsuit issue in a yellow-and-pink bikini.

"The Dreamgirl As You've Never Seen Her," a cover headline teases. There's also a photo spread inside the magazine.

The 25-year-old singer-actress ("Dreamgirls") posed on a Florida beach in the bikini designed by House of Dereon, the fashion label she started with her mother, Tina Knowles.

The 2007 swimsuit edition continues with a music theme inside, featuring scantily clad models posing with Kanye West, Aerosmith, Kenny Chesney, Gnarls Barkley and Panic! At the Disco.

A five-page spread featuring Russian Anne Vyalitsyna was shot at the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame and Museum in Cleveland in September.

"Once the decision was made to have a music hook, one of the first settings to come up was the Rock Hall, because it's such an iconic place," said Sports Illustrated spokesman Rick McCabe. "It was a natural fit."

Vyalitsyna posed with Jon Bon Jovi's motorcycle and other Rock Hall items.

The magazine portrayed the museum with respect, said Todd Mesek, Rock Hall spokesman.

"We felt it would've been an omission if we weren't included," he said.

___

curmudgeon (DC Steve), Wednesday, 14 February 2007 17:49 (seventeen years ago) link

Beyonce has given much better performances in the past ("Say My Name", "Bills, Bills, Bills", "Bootylicious", "Lose My Breath", "Dangerously In Love", "Emotion", "So Good", "Crazy In Love"). The construction of the entire song is a shambles; it doesn't go anywhere musically or lyrically and the place it sits in is low-rent rip-off of TLC's "Unpretty".

Well, I like "Irreplacable" more than most of those songs, including "Unpretty", and don't necessarily agree that she gives better performances on all of them, so taste is a bugger, etc.

And how is "Irreplacable" a ripoff of "Unpretty" other than that both are R&B songs built around an acoustic guitar?

The Reverend (Rodney J. Greene), Wednesday, 14 February 2007 22:11 (seventeen years ago) link

Both are mid-tempo "empowerment anthems" based on an acoustic guitar riff based very heavily on the circle of fifths sung by African-American women more known for their trendsetting/trendchasing (delete as applicable to the relative stage in each act's career) hip-hop/r&b work.

Jesus Dan (dan perry), Thursday, 15 February 2007 01:48 (seventeen years ago) link

Fair enough, but that doesn't really answer my question. I didn't ask how they are similiar, (and half of that is based on circumstance, rather than anything within the songs. the circle-of-fifths thing may be a good point, but my knowledge of music theory is rather rudimentary) I asked how one is a ripoff of the other. I don't see any reason to assume that Beyonce was consciously or even subconsciously setting out to make a song that sounds like "Unpretty".

The Reverend shines like a lighthouse (Rodney J. Greene), Thursday, 15 February 2007 05:17 (seventeen years ago) link

not that there isn't a difference, but i don't know that it's so easily distinguished--ESPECIALLY w/r/t to a world-famous pop star and a song ostensibly about her relationship with her world-famous boyfriend--and i dont know that super-formalist readings of it (or really of any pop song) are going to be all that helpful or interesting.

-- max (mreadn...), February 13th, 2007.

WTF? When did singing a song that's not actually about one's own life become something only decipherable by "super formalist" readings??? Did Johnny Cash actually kill a man?

Shadowcat (A-Ron Hubbard), Thursday, 15 February 2007 05:26 (seventeen years ago) link

I mean in what sense is Irreplaceable "ostensibly" about Jay-Z???

Shadowcat (A-Ron Hubbard), Thursday, 15 February 2007 05:27 (seventeen years ago) link

"Both are mid-tempo "empowerment anthems" based on an acoustic guitar riff based very heavily on the circle of fifths sung by African-American women more known for their trendsetting/trendchasing (delete as applicable to the relative stage in each act's career) hip-hop/r&b work."

Dan, as long as Sugababes' "Ugly" it's hard for me to take this accusation seriously.

Tim F (Tim F), Thursday, 15 February 2007 06:03 (seventeen years ago) link

As long as Sugababes' "Ugly" exists, even.

Tim F (Tim F), Thursday, 15 February 2007 06:03 (seventeen years ago) link

hurting--maybe i misspoke? i meant that a formalist reading (by which i guess i really mean a new critical reading i.e. w/out extratextual information such as uh i dont know biographical context) is lacking b/c it takes the song to be objectively given, extant in a vacuum, separate from the mechanisms by which its produced and consumed. now i dont have a window into beyonces life but i thought (and i could be wrong but i couldve sworn i read this all over the place) that the song has been generally taken by the public (if not the critics who tend to be suspicious that a pop star might bring "real" life into what is thought of as a genre abt "image" and "surface") as being specifically referential to her relationship w/ jay-z. and EVEN if that reading of the PRODUCTION of the song itself is wrong (and i dont think its strictly true since apparently ne-yo wrote the lyrics but i dont think you can deny that giving a recently-jilted girl a song like that to sing wont bring her own attitude, exp., etc to it), the mechanisms of CONSUMPTION of the song are such that a huge number of ppl take it to be abt her and jay. (id maybe even argue that one meaning the song itself produces involves her relationship to jigga)

max (maxreax), Thursday, 15 February 2007 07:20 (seventeen years ago) link

"recently-jilted"? Did I miss something?

The Reverend shines like a lighthouse (Rodney J. Greene), Thursday, 15 February 2007 07:37 (seventeen years ago) link


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