DREAMGIRLS

Message Bookmarked
Bookmark Removed
Not all messages are displayed: show all messages (295 of them)
gabbneb OTM on showoffy melismatic bullshit. I'd compare it to those horrendous guitar solos that ruin so much '70s rock and nearly all metal for me.

Dr M (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 2 January 2007 21:41 (seventeen years ago) link

it is kinda similar to the finger-tapping/endless soloing trope of electric guitarists, except that post 70s none of that shit was even remotely popular. whereas this has become the dominant vocal style of pop music.

Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 2 January 2007 21:42 (seventeen years ago) link

Emotionless except when Stevie does it (which, admittedly, isn't anywhere near as often as people like J-Hud).

Eric H. (Eric H.), Tuesday, 2 January 2007 21:43 (seventeen years ago) link

I had no idea there was a NAME for it! That shit drives me crazy.

Laurel (Laurel), Tuesday, 2 January 2007 21:43 (seventeen years ago) link

guitar solos might suck a lot too, but they don't necessarily pretend to be about anything

nuneb (nuneb), Tuesday, 2 January 2007 21:46 (seventeen years ago) link

and I'll bet they're more frequently lyrical in their appointed role

nuneb (nuneb), Tuesday, 2 January 2007 21:47 (seventeen years ago) link

Anything notable abt Jamie Foxx' performance?

No. He was far more charismatic in Miami Vice, if that says anything.

Eric H. (Eric H.), Tuesday, 2 January 2007 21:48 (seventeen years ago) link

When did this thread turn into ilm?

The Many Faces of Gordon Jump (Leon), Tuesday, 2 January 2007 21:49 (seventeen years ago) link

It's appropriate in the sense that I think the film's biggest shortcoming is its lame music.

Eric H. (Eric H.), Tuesday, 2 January 2007 21:50 (seventeen years ago) link

No. He was far more charismatic in Miami Vice, if that says anything.

he was playing a cold dude! his was the only role that called for understatement and he was understated. I thought he was good.

I don't have an opinion on melisma in the abstract, but Jennifer Hudson did not sound emotionless when she employed it, for god's sake.

horseshoe (horseshoe), Tuesday, 2 January 2007 21:51 (seventeen years ago) link

Melisma allows the pitchfork set something to get all Andy Rooney about.

The Many Faces of Gordon Jump (Leon), Tuesday, 2 January 2007 21:54 (seventeen years ago) link

in my day a singer just sang the song and didn't do all that ooowowoohaohyeeeahowhaohwha bullshit *grumble grumble*

Shakey Old Man (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 2 January 2007 21:55 (seventeen years ago) link

(waves fist at small children)

Shakey Old Man (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 2 January 2007 21:55 (seventeen years ago) link

You know, I hatehatehate the twang inherent in most country music but I have enough awareness of both the genre and myself to know that this is my issue, not the genre's. Understanding that internal bias has allowed me to work through it and enjoy some really great country artists (primarily Dolly Parton). Not only are you guys walling yourselves off from a lot of enjoyable stuff with this hardline attitude (which of course is your perogative), you are also making baldly ignorant, uninformed, flat-out stupid generalizations about the artists performing in this style (which is also your perogative and also subjective but maybe not quite the way you want to present yourselves to others).

Jesus Dan (dan perry), Tuesday, 2 January 2007 21:56 (seventeen years ago) link

Did I mention how much I love this man's melisma?

http://www.solarnavigator.net/music/music_images/stevie_wonder_beads.jpg

Eric H. (Eric H.), Tuesday, 2 January 2007 21:58 (seventeen years ago) link

dood I love pop music and r&b I'm not taking a hardline attitude.

Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 2 January 2007 21:59 (seventeen years ago) link

I'm pointing out the way your rhetoric is coming across to me; if you'd like to modify it so that you communicate your point to me in a clearer manner, go for it.

Jesus Dan (dan perry), Tuesday, 2 January 2007 22:01 (seventeen years ago) link

(altho I will confess that I flat-out hate 99.9% of the American Idol contestants and their associated stylistic characteristics that are usually ascribed as positives. Xtina et al also bore me horribly but more for reasons of content/subtext than anything else)

Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 2 January 2007 22:03 (seventeen years ago) link

I don't think anyone who dislikes melisma here could remotely be described as either the pitchfork set or needing an excuse to get all Andy Rooney

my taste should also make clear that little stands between me and stuff I might like and that I never let how my preferences might appear to others interfere with my critical instinct

nuneb (nuneb), Tuesday, 2 January 2007 22:05 (seventeen years ago) link

I don't know American Idol very well but I appreciate its existence if only because of the added resonance of Hudson's casting in Dreamgirls. didn't she basically get kicked off of Idol for being too fat?

horseshoe (horseshoe), Tuesday, 2 January 2007 22:05 (seventeen years ago) link

I mean, I was being sarcastic with those "old man" posts - otherwise its not me calling the style "emotionless" or "bullshit", I was more interested in why you think the style is 40 years old than anything else. Cuz to my radio-listenin ears that style didn't come anywhere close to dominance until the post-"I Will Always Love You"-Whitney 90s (to bring it full circle to Dolly)

Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 2 January 2007 22:07 (seventeen years ago) link

x-post!

Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 2 January 2007 22:08 (seventeen years ago) link

After seeing Dreamgirls, I can't say I disagree with this quote from the IndieWire critics' poll:

What does it say about our world that you can lose "American Idol" and win an Academy Award for doing basically the same thing? -- Matt Singer

For better or worse, the people who win American Idol typically don't respond as well to vocal pyrotechnics as they do to unique personalities. It's why Paris didn't win last time around and that doofus (who I'm told is likable) did.

Eric H. (Eric H.), Tuesday, 2 January 2007 22:09 (seventeen years ago) link

the specific style Dan was talking about is melisma-as-employed-by-Hudson-in-Dreamgirls, which you announced you had no desire to see, right?

horseshoe (horseshoe), Tuesday, 2 January 2007 22:09 (seventeen years ago) link

and it IS like guitar solo-ing insofar as it is an overtly self-conscious display of technique, range, skill, etc. Its got an inherently "show-off"-y kind of quality.

Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 2 January 2007 22:10 (seventeen years ago) link

After seeing Dreamgirls, I can't say I disagree with this quote from the IndieWire critics' poll:

What does it say about our world that you can lose "American Idol" and win an Academy Award for doing basically the same thing? -- Matt Singer

For better or worse, the people who win American Idol typically don't respond as well to vocal pyrotechnics as they do to unique personalities. It's why Paris didn't win last time around and that doofus (who I'm told is likable) did.

-- Eric H. (ephende...), Today. (later

wtf does this post mean at all? she hasn't even won an oscar yet! how can you "agree" with that?

a mediocre black-and-white cookie in a cellophane wrapper (hanks1ockli), Tuesday, 2 January 2007 22:11 (seventeen years ago) link

"the specific style Dan was talking about is melisma-as-employed-by-Hudson-in-Dreamgirls, which you announced you had no desire to see, right?"

well there are a number of reasons I have no desire to see it: no one I like is involved, I'm overly familiar with the story and don't find it engaging as subject matter, I haven't liked the music to any Broadway musical post-1980 or so, no actual Supremes music is used, etc. None of these are really related to my feelings about melisma-as-style.

Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 2 January 2007 22:12 (seventeen years ago) link

I guess I don't understand discussing melisma-as-style without discussing specific examples. I mean, opera singers employ melisma, and presumably aren't influenced by Whitney Houston overmuch. I don't get how you can be so authoritative about the sources of Hudson's singing style in the movie when you haven't seen it.

horseshoe (horseshoe), Tuesday, 2 January 2007 22:15 (seventeen years ago) link

how can you "agree" with that?

"How do you sleep at night?!"

Eric H. (Eric H.), Tuesday, 2 January 2007 22:15 (seventeen years ago) link

just curious how you can agree with a hypothetical question about a hypothetical event! what are you agreeing with?

a mediocre black-and-white cookie in a cellophane wrapper (hanks1ockli), Tuesday, 2 January 2007 22:17 (seventeen years ago) link

sorry, i guess i mean a rhetorical question about a hypothetical event.

a mediocre black-and-white cookie in a cellophane wrapper (hanks1ockli), Tuesday, 2 January 2007 22:17 (seventeen years ago) link

I agree that it's odd to consider that she lost one talent contest and may win a different, supposedly more prestigious talent contest. And that audience/peer response informs that split.

Eric H. (Eric H.), Tuesday, 2 January 2007 22:19 (seventeen years ago) link

"I don't get how you can be so authoritative about the sources of Hudson's singing style in the movie when you haven't seen it."

dood Dan said it was 40 years old. I asked why. end of story. it isn't really that complicated.

Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 2 January 2007 22:19 (seventeen years ago) link

well as they are two different types of contests, what's odd about that?

a mediocre black-and-white cookie in a cellophane wrapper (hanks1ockli), Tuesday, 2 January 2007 22:20 (seventeen years ago) link

unless the realization that american idol is about singing and the oscars are about acting has blown your mind!

a mediocre black-and-white cookie in a cellophane wrapper (hanks1ockli), Tuesday, 2 January 2007 22:21 (seventeen years ago) link

come on, the "what does it say about our world" is a little more handwringing, oh-no-American-Idol-performers-are-now-getting-respect! than just, "hmm, that's odd."

horseshoe (horseshoe), Tuesday, 2 January 2007 22:21 (seventeen years ago) link

It's odd that she's fat. That's what.

Eric H. (Eric H.), Tuesday, 2 January 2007 22:22 (seventeen years ago) link

she likes to eat! what's odd about that? lots of people are fat!

a mediocre black-and-white cookie in a cellophane wrapper (hanks1ockli), Tuesday, 2 January 2007 22:22 (seventeen years ago) link

come on, the "what does it say about our world" is a little more handwringing, oh-no-American-Idol-performers-are-now-getting-respect! than just, "hmm, that's odd."

Critics in overstating the importance of things like, oh, Dreamgirls shockah!

unless the realization that american idol is about singing and the oscars are about acting has blown your mind!

See, the sad thing about this whole thing is that Jennifer Hudson ... is a terrible actress.

Eric H. (Eric H.), Tuesday, 2 January 2007 22:23 (seventeen years ago) link

but srsly, do you think if she DOES win the oscar it'll be BECAUSE she's fat??

a mediocre black-and-white cookie in a cellophane wrapper (hanks1ockli), Tuesday, 2 January 2007 22:23 (seventeen years ago) link

(I know you're joking, Eric, but it was kind of amazing to be watching a nonskinny woman taken seriously as a subject onscreen.)

horseshoe (horseshoe), Tuesday, 2 January 2007 22:23 (seventeen years ago) link

lots of people are fat!

I'm not. I like to eat.

Eric H. (Eric H.), Tuesday, 2 January 2007 22:23 (seventeen years ago) link

i'm only skimming here, but i think some people need some punches in the face

giboyojimbo (gbx), Tuesday, 2 January 2007 22:24 (seventeen years ago) link

honestly, though, i refuse to continue this weird double hypothetical non-argument until jennifer hudson actually wins the oscar. or is at least nominated for cryin' out loud.

a mediocre black-and-white cookie in a cellophane wrapper (hanks1ockli), Tuesday, 2 January 2007 22:24 (seventeen years ago) link

(I know you're joking, Eric, but it was kind of amazing to be watching a nonskinny woman taken seriously as a subject onscreen.)

You don't need to tell me twice. You're talking to the only person in the world whose favorite performance in Magnolia was Cleo King's.

Eric H. (Eric H.), Tuesday, 2 January 2007 22:24 (seventeen years ago) link

honestly, though, i refuse to continue this weird double hypothetical non-argument until jennifer hudson actually wins the oscar.

Yes, and I should probably stop talking about a movie that I basically have no strong feelings about.

Eric H. (Eric H.), Tuesday, 2 January 2007 22:25 (seventeen years ago) link

Jennifer Hudson ... is a terrible actress.

I feel like I'm taking crazy pills! she was awesome! I'm not saying she'd be good in anything, but she was good in this! I started sobbing the second she shot Jamie Foxx a loving look during "I love you, I do"! okay, maybe that was an overshare.

horseshoe (horseshoe), Tuesday, 2 January 2007 22:26 (seventeen years ago) link

I know I have odd standards of what constitutes good acting (I think the acting in John Waters movies trumps almost anything that wins Oscars), but I thought Hudson was extremely vacuous when she wasn't singing. She and Beyonce should've switched roles so the latter wouldn't have to hold back on her vocal skills until that big third-act number.

Eric H. (Eric H.), Tuesday, 2 January 2007 22:28 (seventeen years ago) link

I thought Hudson was extremely vacuous when she wasn't singing.

she was almost always singing, though. anyway, I'm officially taking a deep breath and stepping away from this thread. but seriously, people who said you have no interest in seeing the movie, I'd reconsider. it's good.

horseshoe (horseshoe), Tuesday, 2 January 2007 22:31 (seventeen years ago) link

It's good...if you're not Smuggy McCrazyface.

The Many Faces of Gordon Jump (Leon), Tuesday, 2 January 2007 22:33 (seventeen years ago) link


You must be logged in to post. Please either login here, or if you are not registered, you may register here.