"The days of libraries saying, 'We must have that, because it's good for people,' are beyond us."

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Molly is on the money: ILL-ing is the key to this entire problem.

Mr. Que (Party with me Punker), Wednesday, 3 January 2007 21:01 (seventeen years ago) link

You actually learn in library school that if you become a young adult or children's librarian, you may have to deal with "babysitting issues."

My pinko heart wanted me to be a public librarian so badly, but alas, it was not to be.

molly mummenschanz (molly d), Wednesday, 3 January 2007 21:03 (seventeen years ago) link

OH MY GOD, someone once came all the way to the bookstore info desk and asked me, "Do you sell plaques?" I was like, "Plaques? Like with common sayings or bible verses on them?" "Yeah, like that." "I'm afraid not, sir." "Well, then, darnit, what DO you sell?" "Uh. Books."

Laurel (Laurel), Wednesday, 3 January 2007 21:04 (seventeen years ago) link

I like how that Times story actually only gets around to actually asking kids in the final couple of paragraphs.

You actually learn in library school that if you become a young adult or children's librarian, you may have to deal with "babysitting issues."

This is why I could never teach K-12.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 3 January 2007 21:04 (seventeen years ago) link

best bookstore question ever, when I worked in a bookstore:

Do you sell globes of Mars?

Mr. Que (Party with me Punker), Wednesday, 3 January 2007 21:05 (seventeen years ago) link

Well, did you?

Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 3 January 2007 21:06 (seventeen years ago) link

That is awesome. I'm sure they exist, in some science & nature/educational catalog somewhere! Someone I know has a light-up string of semi-scale models of all the planets that you blow up; imagine a beach ball of Jupiter!

Laurel (Laurel), Wednesday, 3 January 2007 21:07 (seventeen years ago) link

You actually learn in library school that if you become a young adult or children's librarian, you may have to deal with "babysitting issues."

Which is why I will never work in a public library. It's not that I hate kids...I just hate the kind of kids that end up left unsupervised in a library.

The Many Faces of Gordon Jump (Leon), Wednesday, 3 January 2007 21:09 (seventeen years ago) link

Yep, I'm the same way. I like kids, a lot! It's just that I'm far too sarcastic to deal with idiot children who are left to roost at the library.

molly mummenschanz (molly d), Wednesday, 3 January 2007 21:12 (seventeen years ago) link

Besides, an academic library has the quiet period between semesters that allows me to make stupid puns about Hinder and furries.

The Many Faces of Gordon Jump (Leon), Wednesday, 3 January 2007 21:14 (seventeen years ago) link

No we didn't sell them, but now I remember how badly I want a globe of Mars!

Mr. Que (Party with me Punker), Wednesday, 3 January 2007 21:14 (seventeen years ago) link

The article starts off by making it sound like the library is going to do whatever the computer tells it to do (so to speak), but as it goes on, that becomes more and more qualified by the fact that sometimes librarians might choose to keep books that have been picked for weeding by the computerized selection process.

I think a public library can and should have a collection development policy that's a mix of pandering and educating. I don't think it's a science.

Much of this comes down to how cities make budgeting decisions. They want to see some concrete numbers, so library administrators tend to give them circulation statistics (at least where the collection is the issue).

I also see collection standardization increasing as a byproduct of certain integrated acquisitions/cataloging systems. (To some extent this depends on how much money an institution spends on the system they use. More money buys you more flexibility.)

It seems really unfortunate that at a time of increasing media concentration, public libraries would go for a more corporate model of collection development. The internet is obviously a huge counter-balancing force to that trend, and public libraries provide access to it--but then I think their collections may be making themselves obsolete by narrowing down precisely at a time when the internet is exposing larger and larger chunks of the world. I'm just concerned that when patrons look for books or CDs or DVDs in the library's physical collection, they aren't going to find the sort of collection that would reflect the richly global view of the world that the internet provides.

RSLaRue (RSLaRue), Wednesday, 3 January 2007 21:30 (seventeen years ago) link

And nowadays, library patrons don't like to sit at big tables with strangers as they read or study. They want to be alone, creating a need for individual carrels that take up even more space.

Fuck 'em. Let them go to grad. school if they want that.

RSLaRue (RSLaRue), Wednesday, 3 January 2007 21:31 (seventeen years ago) link

After reading this thread, there is no doubt in my mind that quitting library school was the right decision.

Sara Robinson-Coolidge (Sara R-C), Wednesday, 3 January 2007 21:31 (seventeen years ago) link

I wish I had dropped out back when I was young and really had nothing to lose.

RSLaRue (RSLaRue), Wednesday, 3 January 2007 21:35 (seventeen years ago) link

Library school = I have never been so drunk and stoned in my life

(I quit the job and went full-time)

molly mummenschanz (molly d), Wednesday, 3 January 2007 21:37 (seventeen years ago) link

Also as far as storage goes: how about building some cheap remote storage sites, or renovating existing buildings for that purposes, rather than spending lots of money on new buildings that are architecturally dramatic, but don't necessarily offer much more room for collections?

Library school = I have never been so drunk and stoned in my life

I made my first reliable w33d connection in library school.

RSLaRue (RSLaRue), Wednesday, 3 January 2007 21:39 (seventeen years ago) link

Also as far as storage goes: how about building some cheap remote storage sites, or renovating existing buildings for that purposes, rather than spending lots of money on new buildings that are architecturally dramatic, but don't necessarily offer much more room for collections?

Amen to that. We have "The Annex" for our storage purposes, but it's filling up. It's this cool old telephone company building not too far from campus. We have a fairly efficient Annex Request system running, too.

molly mummenschanz (molly d), Wednesday, 3 January 2007 21:42 (seventeen years ago) link

I was turned off libraries for a long time by our ridiculous local one, which was essentially a small shed that charged more for three days' fines than the book cost to buy.

I fucking love our university one, though. The books it sells are truly dire, but that's because it keeps *everything*. The philosophy stacks are both great and obscure as all hell.

stet (stet), Wednesday, 3 January 2007 21:52 (seventeen years ago) link

Do you sell globes of Mars?

Well, the thing is that a lot of big bookshops do sell stuff like this. In the local Waterstone's there is a floor for travel books and they have an extensive selection of globes, including political, geographical and space ones. So it doesn't strike me as incredibly odd to ask this at something like Barnes & Noble. If it was asked in a library, however...

emil.y (emil.y), Wednesday, 3 January 2007 21:59 (seventeen years ago) link

Anyway, I recently had a patron express surprise that the library bought the books it owned. She thought they were all donations.

RSLaRue (RSLaRue), Wednesday, 3 January 2007 22:43 (seventeen years ago) link

That's okay, I once had a customer ask me whether the books in our store were shelved by publisher.

Laurel (Laurel), Wednesday, 3 January 2007 22:53 (seventeen years ago) link

In which case, I am totally calling dibs on the Chronicle section.

Laurel (Laurel), Wednesday, 3 January 2007 22:54 (seventeen years ago) link

Ha ha, I had a customer insist at length that we should organize all the non-fiction alphabetically. I couldn't get him to understand the notion that we should keep the cookbooks separate from, say, the pregnancy books.

Sara Robinson-Coolidge (Sara R-C), Wednesday, 3 January 2007 22:56 (seventeen years ago) link

Cust, a normal-looking adult male who is STANDING IN THE MIDDLE OF THE STORE: "Excuse me, where's your non-fiction section."
Me, confused: "Wellllllll...everything not signed 'Fiction' is non-fiction!"
Cust: "Okay. Uh. What's fiction?"
Me: "That section right over there. See? Under the sign reading 'Fiction'."
Cust: "No, I mean, what IS fiction?"

Laurel (Laurel), Wednesday, 3 January 2007 23:00 (seventeen years ago) link

Sadly, I run into a lot of people who don't know which is which.

RSLaRue (RSLaRue), Wednesday, 3 January 2007 23:03 (seventeen years ago) link

Cust: "No, I mean, what IS fiction?"

You stopped the story too soon. What did you say to the customer then?

The PEW Research Center for Panty-Twisting (Rock Hardy), Wednesday, 3 January 2007 23:06 (seventeen years ago) link

I like when I meet students who pride themselves on never setting foot in the library. I want to slap them.

molly mummenschanz (molly d), Wednesday, 3 January 2007 23:08 (seventeen years ago) link

I don't remember! I remember thinking that the definition he was looking for was probably "stories about things that aren't true" or "...that are made up" but I realized I couldn't remember a time I DIDN'T know what "fiction" was so I was scrambling for a dictionary-style def. and I balked at branding fic/lit as "untrue" to someone who didn't have his own ideas on the subject. Probably said something babyish like "stories that people make up out of their heads."

Laurel (Laurel), Wednesday, 3 January 2007 23:09 (seventeen years ago) link

In my own small way, I actually increased the number of students who come into the library. This is because they have to have an activated library card to access e-reserves, while the formerly open reserve stacks are now closed. All of a sudden card activations shot way up...

Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 3 January 2007 23:10 (seventeen years ago) link

Customers walk into bookstores less confidently than they would into, say, the Gap. Watching them from the register I'd notice them pausing momentarily by the door, getting their bearings, before proceeding (invariably) to me.

Alfred Soto (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 3 January 2007 23:13 (seventeen years ago) link

I do not have to deal with students and/or reference questions anymore, which I sometimes miss. But, I do get to deal with books with subject headings such as:

650 0 Folk poetry, Spanish ǂz Spain ǂz Cartagena ǂx History and criticism.
650 0 Folk poetry, Spanish ǂz Spain ǂz Cartagena ǂx Criticism, Textual.
650 0 Miners ǂv Poetry.

molly mummenschanz (molly d), Wednesday, 3 January 2007 23:14 (seventeen years ago) link

Enjoy our search catalog.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 3 January 2007 23:16 (seventeen years ago) link

Customers walk into bookstores less confidently than they would into, say, the Gap.

Yeah, these people are my opposites then. I have no idea wtf I'm doing in clothing stores.

jaymc (jaymc), Wednesday, 3 January 2007 23:18 (seventeen years ago) link

Ooh! It's nice, Ned! What OPAC do you use? We use SIRSI. Bleck.

I like that you can search by SuDoc number. I honestly don't know how many people would do a search with that, but it's a nice feature to have.

Here's ours (I don't love it)

molly mummenschanz (molly d), Wednesday, 3 January 2007 23:20 (seventeen years ago) link

err, this is it

molly mummenschanz (molly d), Wednesday, 3 January 2007 23:21 (seventeen years ago) link

What OPAC do you use?

Good ol' triple III. Sometimes it goes in fits and starts but ever since the major upgrade for reserves a few years back I've not had a major problem with it.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 3 January 2007 23:22 (seventeen years ago) link

Ahh, Innovative! It's nice! We're having major issues with our new SIRSI upgrade, i.e. everybody hates it.

molly mummenschanz (molly d), Wednesday, 3 January 2007 23:24 (seventeen years ago) link

We use SIRSI. Bleck.

OTM.

RSLaRue (RSLaRue), Wednesday, 3 January 2007 23:26 (seventeen years ago) link

Do you hate the Java client too?

molly mummenschanz (molly d), Wednesday, 3 January 2007 23:27 (seventeen years ago) link

Actually, see you guys over here. Specifically here.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 3 January 2007 23:32 (seventeen years ago) link

Also I'll have you know I was excellent at the reference desk, but people WOULD come in and say things like, "I'm looking for a book about yay big, and it's sort of blueish-grey. Do you know what book I mean?"
SURE, NO PROBLEM, LET ME SHOW YOU TO OUR BLUE BOOK SECTION.

Nautical books! They're always blue. I was poking around in the home of a retired Yacht Club president once (courtesy of his caretaker), and his bookcase was a symphony of blue.

Years ago I worked as a housecleaner for a woman who asked me to remove all the "thin books" from her bookshelves.

Beth Parker (Beth Parker), Wednesday, 3 January 2007 23:39 (seventeen years ago) link

What OPAC do you use? We use SIRSI. Bleck.

I feel your pain. Anytime I have an urge to punch a computer screen, it's usually due to SIRSI (or something dumb like the dreamgirls thread).

The Many Faces of Gordon Jump (Leon), Thursday, 4 January 2007 01:01 (seventeen years ago) link

lmbo gear's a nerd

aidsy (aidsy), Thursday, 4 January 2007 03:35 (seventeen years ago) link

I have Horizon Syrsi Dynix:(

Okay, this is my hometown library system. Actually, it is not underfunded. Fairfax Co. is one of the richest areas in the country. And Fairfax Co. has a large, well-regarded suburban system. Right now, the system has an excellent collection. There are about 20 branches, so if you ever want something that is not at your local branch, you can get it pretty quickly. I work at the library system in the next city over, and between the two systems, I rarely want for books.

I had a class with the director of this library and he is very smart and proactive and has been director for about 20 years. He is influenced by business practices, such as increasing interoperability and ease of use and seamlessness. He is influenced by the movement from bank tellers to ATMs and tried to incorporate modern practices into the library system. I think that he wants to intorduce more public meeting spaces into the libraries, which will take the place of some book storage. He thinks that this is what the public wants. Fairfax County also does very proactive environmental scans to determine what their community base is and how to serve it.

I think (I hope) that this article may have been misreported. I can't really see the wisdom in getting rid of these classics. Probably better to weed the multiple copies of the really popular books that people aren't reading two years later after the buzz has died down. I think that they will at least keep copies of the classics at certain branch libraries, if not all. Hopefully Fairfax Co. will publish a response to this article, which left a lot of things unclear.

I'm not really into ILL so much. Part of the pleasure of the library comes from browsing and finding the unexpected. I think that ILL should be a last resort, for the rare item. The library that I work at, a small city library with four branches, has a excellent collection. But sometimes I feel like I am the only person who reads certain books. I'm not sure if this is problem of marketinng, or if their is just not such a great audience of literary fiction and academic-ic nonfiction. I'm really greatful that the selectors at my library have such great taste, but I think we could go more in the other direction, and offer more popular materials. Though I hate bestsellers and their like with a passion.

I don't have to babysit at all in my children's library. We are really lucky in that we are not immediately next to a school. Another branch is next to a junior high school and apparently the students use the library after school to hang out, but not to use the resources or anything.

Anyway, I look forward to seeing this story developing. My library is rolling out the e-audio-books right now with the Overdrive system. But I'm annoyed because Mac won't play nice with libraries and it only works on PCs.

Matilda Wormwood (Mary ), Thursday, 4 January 2007 03:40 (seventeen years ago) link

Rockist makes a good point by noting that the article cites librarians' discretion as far as keeping titles. The story also never says that "Mockingbird" is getting dumped, just that it falls under the criteria in at least one branch.

A Radio Picture (Factory Sample Not For Sale), Thursday, 4 January 2007 04:05 (seventeen years ago) link

There is no need to continually take up so much redundant space and time and kilowatts of climate control for anything out of copyright.

-- TOMB07


lmao, this thinking worked SOOOO well with microfilm

bill sackter (bill sackter), Thursday, 4 January 2007 04:25 (seventeen years ago) link

I think that ILL should be a last resort, for the rare item.

Obviously I check the local system (13 libraries including three university libraries) first when I want something, but if they don't have it, ILL isn't a first or last resort, it's the ONLY resort.

The PEW Research Center for Panty-Twisting (Rock Hardy), Thursday, 4 January 2007 04:39 (seventeen years ago) link

At this point, I visit the library in/near my hometown (Owings Mills, Md, the library's actually in Pikesville which is right down the road), and it's maybe 25% oldsters reading and scanning the shelves and getting online to do research and send emails; 5% tots riffling through the kids section or tagging along with thier parents; 10% 20/30 somethings doing the same thing; and 60% teens getting online to check out whatever porn they can get away with and myspace and play videogames, LOUDLY.

Ray Cummings (skateboardr), Thursday, 4 January 2007 12:53 (seventeen years ago) link

I have Horizon Syrsi Dynix:(

So do I! I feel your pain.

The Many Faces of Gordon Jump (Leon), Thursday, 4 January 2007 13:31 (seventeen years ago) link


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