That's because there is nothing resembling democracy around here.
You're right, and nobody's ever said otherwise.
― I Am Curious (George) (Slight Return) (Rock Hardy), Saturday, 9 December 2006 03:45 (seventeen years ago) link
― grady (grady), Saturday, 9 December 2006 03:54 (seventeen years ago) link
― bliss (blass), Saturday, 9 December 2006 04:03 (seventeen years ago) link
― amon (amon), Saturday, 9 December 2006 04:05 (seventeen years ago) link
― bliss (blass), Saturday, 9 December 2006 04:11 (seventeen years ago) link
What an absurd statement!
― Nice Esteban Buttez (King Esteban), Saturday, 9 December 2006 04:38 (seventeen years ago) link
1/ Let's have a list of PROPER RULES people! Srsly!2/ Fairer system of punishment: something like three warnings, short-term ban then long-term ban.3/ Explain the punishments and explain where in the to-be written rules that the poster broke. This will prevent certain admins from banning on a whim as usual.4/ Explain the reasons behind a deleted thread and explain where in the to-be written rules that the thread broke. This is to stop certain admins deleting on a whim or because they simply just don't like the thread.5/ Election of a panel of (at least five) admins. Yes, *election* by the ILX community on a yearly basis.6/ Bans would have to be agreed upon by a majority of the admin panel - again, to stop certain admins banning on a whim or because they have an issue with a poster.7/ Admins can be stripped of their position if a certain number of posters wish to "recall" them.
This is just a few loose ideas which will be ignored and mocked by certain people in this thread. Just don't say I never have any positive input, OK?
― Nice Esteban Buttez (King Esteban), Saturday, 9 December 2006 05:04 (seventeen years ago) link
2) I dunno, it's good that I'm not really a mod, cos I'm not for cutting much slack. If someone's going to be a prick, it's either because they're taking the piss and therefore will keep pushing the boundaries, or it's because they're socially broken, and should just be sent packing.
3/4) Nu ILX code doesn't delete anything, only flags it for hiding. So if there is some wanton modding (not that I can really remember any), it's pretty easy to undo.
5+7) You make it sound like admin is some groovy thing that everyone would want, when in fact it's just fixing broken img tags, removing spam and trying to keep the place habitable. We're lucky to have people who'll do that, and I don't think making them josh for the "honour" is a v. good idea.
6) This happens already, off-board.
― stet (stet), Saturday, 9 December 2006 05:28 (seventeen years ago) link
2/ That's a pretty simplistic view. If you try warning people, you might be surpised by the amount of people that straighten up.
3/4/ Good. But we still need proper explanations.
5/6/7/ I know it isn't the greatest job in the world, but it should be open to anyone who wants to put their hand up for it. If there isn't enough admins, I'll take on the position since a) I waste a lot of time on here and b) I believe there needs to be more fairness on the board. Elections are a very good idea.
6/ So why not conduct it in public instead of "off-board"? So it can be out in the open and prevents the admins from becoming a clique of sorts.
― Nice Esteban Buttez (King Esteban), Saturday, 9 December 2006 06:27 (seventeen years ago) link
What are the alternatives? "ILX CODE. Section 4: Thread creations. Sub section 5: Titles4.5.3: You may not post a thread featuring the name of another poster, unless:4.5.3.1 The named poster is your known acquaintance; or4.5.3.2 You are attempting to attract the attention of that poster4.5.4: You may at no time post a thread featuring the name of another poster and sexual or racist language." Bugger that.
2) Yeh, so warn em, then nuke em if they don't shape up. Why bother going round the houses four or five times?
3/4) Explanations are pretty simple: Person X acted like a dick enough to draw mod attention; consequences followed.
5/6 I need to think more about.
― stet (stet), Saturday, 9 December 2006 06:49 (seventeen years ago) link
2) That's fine. But we need at least one warning, something that most admins fail to do at all.
3/4) Again, that kind of statement is ill-defined and open to abuse. In any case, certain admins don't even bother to do that.
― Nice Esteban Buttez (King Esteban), Saturday, 9 December 2006 07:04 (seventeen years ago) link
― grady (grady), Saturday, 9 December 2006 07:07 (seventeen years ago) link
― bliss (blass), Saturday, 9 December 2006 07:42 (seventeen years ago) link
― Nice Esteban Buttez (King Esteban), Saturday, 9 December 2006 07:44 (seventeen years ago) link
― grady (grady), Saturday, 9 December 2006 08:17 (seventeen years ago) link
― sede vacante (blueski), Saturday, 9 December 2006 16:26 (seventeen years ago) link
― Dom Passantino (DomPassantino), Saturday, 9 December 2006 22:22 (seventeen years ago) link
http://img135.imageshack.us/img135/2185/rolleyesld2.gif
― Nice Esteban Buttez (King Esteban), Sunday, 10 December 2006 02:50 (seventeen years ago) link
― Nice Esteban Buttez (King Esteban), Sunday, 10 December 2006 23:00 (seventeen years ago) link
If this is the best we can do, you might as well take me up on my offer. I don't think it could get any worse.
― Nice Esteban Buttez (King Esteban), Sunday, 10 December 2006 23:15 (seventeen years ago) link
― stet (stet), Sunday, 10 December 2006 23:25 (seventeen years ago) link
― Nice Esteban Buttez (King Esteban), Sunday, 10 December 2006 23:28 (seventeen years ago) link
Like as in ice hockey.
You get an email, and when you try to post, you get a "you are locked out for 5 hrs 40 mins, 30 secs" type message.
Then they get let out of the box.
And they immediately go over and trip somebody up with their stick!
Like in Slapshot.
― M Grout (Mark Grout), Monday, 11 December 2006 08:15 (seventeen years ago) link
― Nice Esteban Buttez (King Esteban), Monday, 11 December 2006 08:39 (seventeen years ago) link
Ideally there would be no way for someone to post on a board for a good few hours once consigned to a 'sin bin'. Unfortunately once blocked that person would probably spam other boards moaning about it e.g. Phil starting threads on MRB, IPE or A/D just to whine about admins or bitch about people in bands he doesn't know and has no reason to care about. Nobody locked for however short a time would actually say 'well this is fair enough, i did act like a dick after all' and spend the rest of the day doing something more useful than baiting, trolling further. So what's the point in trying to make those people more comfortable with the action taken against them?
I don't get why the people causing the problems are the ones bawling the loudest about what is enabling them to cause those problems.
But this is, again, all very reminiscent of C-Man's attitude two years ago. Nothing new at all.
― sede vacante (blueski), Monday, 11 December 2006 11:23 (seventeen years ago) link
Apart from the obvious pathetic attention-seeking aspect I mean.
― sede vacante (blueski), Monday, 11 December 2006 11:24 (seventeen years ago) link
-- stet (bonaldi@ge
He set up another username, which Matt appears to have also banned.
Paterson, contrary to what you say above, you have repeatededly been asked not to troll the boards, and warned not to as well. Your response has invariably been some variation on either a/"fuck off hitler" b/"i am a beloved forum comedy character, I can do wtf I want" c/"they is keeping the black man down, help me mah niggaz".
― Norman Phay (Pashmina), Monday, 11 December 2006 11:40 (seventeen years ago) link
― Fat Lady Wrestler (Modal Fugue), Monday, 11 December 2006 11:47 (seventeen years ago) link
Whoever he really is, I'm glad he's off the boards; got bored shitless having to plough through his tiresome nonsense.
Also, ILx is not a democracy and a certain basic level of respect on the part of posters for other posters is expected. I think that the moderators, especially Norman, have shown remarkable patience with EB, but since he has repeatedly given nothing back to these boards other than his limited repertoire of stock troll responses and devalued potentially interesting threads as a result or side-product, then there really was no alternative other than to ban him.
Of course, if EB is dissatisfied with this then he is free to set up his own message boards with his own time, money and resources.
― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Monday, 11 December 2006 11:51 (seventeen years ago) link
Pash is a fine moderator and has always responded quickly to any requests or queries I might have had.
― kv_nol (kv_nol), Monday, 11 December 2006 11:56 (seventeen years ago) link
― sede vacante (blueski), Monday, 11 December 2006 11:57 (seventeen years ago) link
Have I ever been officialy told? Been e-mailed about it? Asked to sit down and discuss it with you?
Of course not, don't be stupid.
― Nice Esteban Buttez (King Esteban), Monday, 11 December 2006 12:17 (seventeen years ago) link
I'm tired of your elitist high-horse attitude, Carlin,.
Also, ILx is not a democracy
Well, it should. Even if it cuts on your attitude.
and a certain basic level of respect on the part of posters for other posters is expected.
Unless you're me.
I think that the moderators, especially Norman, have shown remarkable patience with EB, but since he has repeatedly given nothing back to these boards other than his limited repertoire of stock troll responses and devalued potentially interesting threads as a result or side-product, then there really was no alternative other than to ban him.
Absolute bollocks. Yeah, OK, so I'm a part-time troll in the vein of Passantino. But if you look at all my posts, I do add my fair share to the boards.
Most people posting in this thread haven't ever looked at the mongrels/sheepfuXor threads. They should because I contribute an awful lot to the discussion there in a semi-civil atmosphere.
And why should I? I shouldn't have to. I like ILX and enjoy most of community on here.
― Nice Esteban Buttez (King Esteban), Monday, 11 December 2006 12:21 (seventeen years ago) link
I am not planning to do re-reg this time, even through I feel I have every right to because this was another bullshit ban.
I am confident that this ban will be overturned in due course.
― Nice Esteban Buttez (King Esteban), Monday, 11 December 2006 12:23 (seventeen years ago) link
― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Monday, 11 December 2006 12:31 (seventeen years ago) link
― sede vacante (blueski), Monday, 11 December 2006 12:32 (seventeen years ago) link
Besides, how can I do as I'm fucking told when there are no set rules. And practice what you preach in regards to civility and respect. (Something the admins should try too.)
― Nice Esteban Buttez (King Esteban), Monday, 11 December 2006 12:33 (seventeen years ago) link
― sede vacante (blueski), Monday, 11 December 2006 12:37 (seventeen years ago) link
― Nice Esteban Buttez (King Esteban), Monday, 11 December 2006 12:40 (seventeen years ago) link
(xpost - bollocks, it was trolling)
― Matt DC (Matt DC), Monday, 11 December 2006 12:41 (seventeen years ago) link
― Matt DC (Matt DC), Monday, 11 December 2006 12:42 (seventeen years ago) link
It might have seem to be trolling to you, but it was not.
― Nice Esteban Buttez (King Esteban), Monday, 11 December 2006 12:43 (seventeen years ago) link
― sede vacante (blueski), Monday, 11 December 2006 12:44 (seventeen years ago) link
Because I think we need a civil discussion here.
― Nice Esteban Buttez (King Esteban), Monday, 11 December 2006 12:47 (seventeen years ago) link
any thread mentioning Stylus automatically triggers the 'troll/spam' alarm as well EVERYONE here knows. ditto Pitchfork. NME is exempt because of what is known as The Martian Anomaly.
― sede vacante (blueski), Monday, 11 December 2006 12:49 (seventeen years ago) link
I started a thread about Pitchfork 60s list a few months thread that started a bit like the Stylus thread, which you may remember. It turned out to be a bit of a decent thread with some interesting discussion.
― Nice Esteban Buttez (King Esteban), Monday, 11 December 2006 12:51 (seventeen years ago) link
― Nice Esteban Buttez (King Esteban), Monday, 11 December 2006 12:54 (seventeen years ago) link
To answer your questions. I have nothing personal against you. As I sort of said upthread, I don't care about you. Please understand this. I don't care about you. You're just some weird kid who lives thousands of miles away, why should I care about you? Quite possibly IRL you're a nice guy. How would I, or anyone who doesn't post on the aus/nz region thread ever know? I have not been uncivil to you on this thread, as far as I can see. I described you as acting like a dick, which you have been, fairly consistently.
The last time I had to use admin actions against you is as good an example as any to illustrate this. You started a thread on ILE - a racist screed, with Geir's name attached on the end of it. I deleted it. What the fuck else am I supposed to do? It's not OK to impersonate other posters generally, and especially not to post offensive material. So as soon as I deleted it, you post up another thread - an antisemitic screed with my username attached, so I deleted that as well, so you then post up an obnoxious, bleating complaint thread, which I also deleted. At that point I IP banned you, even though I knew you'd be back on with another proxy in 10 minutes or less. You get back on, and start crowing about it on 1p3, as if using a proxy is difficult or something. I post up that it's not OK to impersonate other posters, your response is "I am a beloved forum comedy character, I can do whatever I want".
You have done shit like this over and over and over again. You post goatse in the middle of an ILM thread, it gets deleted, you know it's going to get deleted and you know why, nevertheless, you then spew out a load of bile, about it - Matt DC is a "dumb cunt", steve m is a nazi, I'm a nazi, whatever. Someone posts up something libelous, so it gets deleted. Obviously it's going to get deleted, IRL people have been fucked over in court for having libelous material on their message boards. What do you do? You post it up all over the place, thenwhen it gets deleted, you freak out about it, nazis, hitler, dumb cunts etc etc.
On top of that there's the constant sniping. I read the board over the last week, and in just about every thread I open, there's you, sniping at southall, passatino, carlin, kate saint claire's band, gooblar's band and so on. It's like a dog marking its territory by pissing everywhere. It's a pain in the ass for people, they don't want to read this shit, and they certainly don't want to read it all the time.
You describe youself as a part-time troll, yet the only place you consistently treat people with any decency and respect is on the aus/nz thread, outside of that thread, I'd estimate that about 7/8 of what I read w/your username attached is sniping. Seriously, I see enough personal beefs here, but I don't see anyone else doing that, except for bato, who gets banned on sight these days anyway.
The problem isn't me, or matt, or steve or whoever moderating out of control - anyone can look at the mod logs and see how little moderation actually does get done, since the spambots got locked out. The problem is this behaviour:
1/constant, unpleasant petty sniping
2/repeated posting of unacceptable material (libel, porn, putting offensive words into other people's mouths so to speak)with consequent tantrums when such material is deleted.
What the fuck do you expect to happen when you do this? Your existence does not, as you say, make me so sick that I want you kicked off the boards, the fact that you think I'm a cunt is a matter of total indifference to me, believe me. It basically boils down to what I said upthread:
people should be able to enjoy using the boards without having some idiot constantly sniping at them.
― Norman Phay (Pashmina), Monday, 11 December 2006 13:40 (seventeen years ago) link
I admit that I do have a problem and I go over-the-top an awful lot of time. I think the problem has stemmed from the "Esteban Buttez" character. It's been built up and I have been encouraged by other posters to act like a dick. Yes, I should have ignored all that by now but it turns into a habit. If I do post again, it certainly won't be under the Esteban Buttez moniker.
The Geir thing for example was totally wrong but I felt I was encouraged into doing that by other posters who think "Geir hates the darkies" is the absolute height of comedy on ILX. Again, partly my fault.
However, the "sniping" at Passantino and Southall is and was nothing more than a bit of jocularity. I think, and hope, Dom and Nick would agree with this.
Complaining about the deletions was again part of the character. When I posted them, it wasn't to be done as serious but in hindsight I can see why it was tiring.
This has been building up for sometime so maybe all this has needed to happen. But I don't live the way it has come around. I think if an admin e-mailed me what they've seen and discussed it with me, all this could have been avoided. But it hasn't happened and I think it's something the admins look into. I don't think it's fair to lump everyone who breaks the rules as "mindless trolls who are hell-bent on destroying ILX" because it isn't as simple as that.
I don't agree that every post I make is a trolling or sniping one. Yeah, as I said, I've done that too often. But not every post I've made is like that. I feel I have positively contributed to ILX in places. I have been proud to the contributions I've made in some ILE and ILM threads and I do get annoyed when I'm dismissed as a one-dimensional troll. It's partly my fault but it angers me when people don't take all my posts in account. It personally offends me.
I have treated people on the Aus/NZ thread with respect because it's the only place on ILX that I feel have been treated with respect and not as a one-dimensional troll.
I still think the admins are too strict, cliquey and unaccountable. It would benefit the board if we could review all this but I doubt any of the current admins can see this and will dismiss it in sight. Hopefully, stet will give this some thought. We need discussion about the administration on ILX and we need it badly.
Moderating is out of control at time and needs to be fixed. I am sorry for offending people but I am not sorry for my opinion on that issue. We need more free speech on ILX, not less.
If I have offended anyone, I totally apologise for doing so.
Anyway, it's time to call it a day for Esteban Buttez. The Esteban Buttez character is dead as of now.
― Nice Esteban Buttez (King Esteban), Monday, 11 December 2006 13:59 (seventeen years ago) link
― Fat Lady Wrestler (Modal Fugue), Monday, 11 December 2006 14:01 (seventeen years ago) link
― No Longer EB (King Esteban), Monday, 11 December 2006 14:27 (seventeen years ago) link
― No Longer EB (King Esteban), Monday, 11 December 2006 14:28 (seventeen years ago) link
― Fat Lady Wrestler (Modal Fugue), Monday, 11 December 2006 14:29 (seventeen years ago) link
― No Longer EB (King Esteban), Monday, 11 December 2006 14:30 (seventeen years ago) link
― The goose flies at night (Matt DC), Monday, 11 December 2006 14:31 (seventeen years ago) link
― No Longer EB (King Esteban), Monday, 11 December 2006 14:32 (seventeen years ago) link
― Fat Lady Wrestler (Modal Fugue), Monday, 11 December 2006 14:33 (seventeen years ago) link
can you please stop writing stuff like this? i have stomach ache from wtf-laughing
― sede vacante (blueski), Monday, 11 December 2006 14:34 (seventeen years ago) link
I am being totally serious about this. Do your research and you will see that I have been encouraged by an awful lot of posters for too long, which is why I've been in the vicious cycle of insulting people at random for too long.
I'm trying to be serious here.
― No Longer EB (King Esteban), Monday, 11 December 2006 14:36 (seventeen years ago) link
-- No Longer EB (estiebuttez...), Today 2:30 PM. (King Esteban) (later) (admin) (userip)
Do it, please. And talk of this no more.
― stet (stet), Monday, 11 December 2006 14:39 (seventeen years ago) link
How did I miss this.
Funny enough, I think I was on my way to Australia.
― Pleasant Plains, Saturday, 9 June 2007 04:42 (sixteen years ago) link
i'd forgotten about this one. esteban opens his heart!
― jergins, Sunday, 10 June 2007 01:30 (sixteen years ago) link