Can we have some sane people as admins instead of the same jerks?

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Kthx in advance.

FREE ESTEBAN BUTTEZ (FREE ESTEBAN BUTTEZ), Friday, 8 December 2006 14:02 (fourteen years ago) link

Why don't you stop acting like a dick instead, maybe?

Norman Phay (Pashmina), Friday, 8 December 2006 14:07 (fourteen years ago) link

I mean, don't you get bored with this?

1/act like an obsessive dick/creep
2/push yer luck until you get locked/thread gets deleted
3/whine about it as if you acting like a dick is someone else's fault?
4/repeat whole process about once every month

It's fucking pitiful, really.

Norman Phay (Pashmina), Friday, 8 December 2006 14:12 (fourteen years ago) link

he's ballin like he supposed to. let a baller ball

amon (amon), Friday, 8 December 2006 14:25 (fourteen years ago) link

as in sucking balls?

sede vacante (blueski), Friday, 8 December 2006 14:30 (fourteen years ago) link

[icyhotstuntaz.jpg]

Venom 18, the autistic spy (flezaffe), Friday, 8 December 2006 14:30 (fourteen years ago) link

Str8 ballin':

ihttp://paulkatcher.com/images/icy.jpg

(x-post YOU BASTARD)

Norman Phay (Pashmina), Friday, 8 December 2006 14:33 (fourteen years ago) link

You're an admin, you can go back and delete him posting ahead of you.

;-)

masonic boom (kate), Friday, 8 December 2006 14:39 (fourteen years ago) link

1/act like an obsessive dick/creep
"Hello Kettle? Look, it's Pot here. Yeah, I'm good. Um, you're black."

2/push yer luck until you get locked/thread gets deleted
SORRY FOR HAVING OPINIONS

3/whine about it as if you acting like a dick is someone else's fault?
"Yeah, it's me again. You're still black, dude."

4/repeat whole process about once every month
Yeah, I'm tired of it. But sadly, I think you enjoy it.

FREE ESTEBAN BUTTEZ (FREE ESTEBAN BUTTEZ), Friday, 8 December 2006 14:57 (fourteen years ago) link

pashmina is not black

sede vacante (blueski), Friday, 8 December 2006 15:03 (fourteen years ago) link

Yeah, I'm tired of it.

i doubt this, philllipson. but maybe you need some more of these.

http://base58.com/ilx/poorphil.jpg

sede vacante (blueski), Friday, 8 December 2006 15:05 (fourteen years ago) link

Maybe you need to WAX YOUR ARMS, son.

FREE ESTEBAN BUTTEZ (FREE ESTEBAN BUTTEZ), Friday, 8 December 2006 15:14 (fourteen years ago) link

why? i'm always getting compliments about them, from men and women. i saved a bunch of drowning kids once - they were able to cling to the copious hairs you see.

when you manage to find a nice girl (or guy) yourself you probably won't feel the need to troll ilx. it is certified sign of sexual frustration, like that shaky leg thing.

sede vacante (blueski), Friday, 8 December 2006 15:19 (fourteen years ago) link

Nothing wrong with the shaky leg thing. It burns calories throughout the day!

FREE ESTEBAN BUTTEZ (FREE ESTEBAN BUTTEZ), Friday, 8 December 2006 15:21 (fourteen years ago) link

wait seriously nude spock is calling himself FREE ESTEBAN BUTTEZ now? wow, almost sad.

TOM. BOT. (trm), Friday, 8 December 2006 15:31 (fourteen years ago) link

"Hello Kettle? Look, it's Pot here. Yeah, I'm good. Um, you're black."

I don't understand how this is even supposed to be relevant. I don't go posting nasty snipey pathetic little comments all over ilm and ile threads, you do.

SORRY FOR HAVING OPINIONS

It's nothing to do with having opinions AS YOU WELL KNOW. Acting like a hateful dick towards people is not the same thing as "having opinions".

But sadly, I think you enjoy it.

I don't enjoy it, again as you well know. I give way, way less of a fuck about this/you/your trolling than you think, believe me. The entirety of my opinion on this is as follows:

People should be able to enjoy using the board without having some idiot constantly sniping at them.

Yeah, I'm tired of it.

Then stop. You being a dick to people is the problem. If you stop being a dick to people, then there is no problem.

Norman Phay (Pashmina), Friday, 8 December 2006 15:59 (fourteen years ago) link

testify!

sede vacante (blueski), Friday, 8 December 2006 16:26 (fourteen years ago) link

Pashmina, those are good arguments. Problem is that they're all void because you are by far the biggest dick on ILX. Yeah, I'm a dick but NOT ALL THE FUCKING TIME unlike yourself. You abuse your position. People can choose to ignore me (and maybe some people should) but they cannot ignore you because you delete/block on your whims.

Sniping is a regular ILX pastime. I do it. We all do it. People act like dicks. You just happen to act like the biggest dick on ILX and you can't fucking see it for some reason.

There happen to be some good ILX admins. I don't give them a hard time because they're not douches like your good self. I give you a hard time because you're a timewasting cunt that ruins ILX for myself and indeed, other posters.

FREE ESTEBAN BUTTEZ (FREE ESTEBAN BUTTEZ), Friday, 8 December 2006 17:06 (fourteen years ago) link

Hey, just to let you know it was actually me that banned you and not Pash, but you can carry on calling him a dick if you want. Looks like you're enjoying it. But I really wouldn't bother appealing for popular support over this because in a straw poll of ILXers to determine which of you two is the bigger dick, you'd be very unlikely to come off well.

FWIW there was no one incident that led to me banning you but more that you've been persistently trolling over a long period of time. The only reason you haven't been banned before is because unlike Darramouss and Bato and Nude Spock and whoever you're actually perfectly capable of NOT acting like an annoying troll when you want to. You seem to like it round here, so maybe if you stop acting like a pathetic child I might unban you.

Matt DC (Matt DC), Friday, 8 December 2006 17:51 (fourteen years ago) link

Indeed, I am aware that you banned me. You are also acting like a dick, not on the Pashmina scale, but still a dick.

Oh, the old popular support gambit. See, I'm not an admin and I'm not part of an exclusive clique...so it's a game that I'm designed to lose in despite the fact that I am in the right here and that Pashmina is way out of fucking control.

"Pathetic child", indeed. That's a crap "excuse" and you know it. I don't know what your angle here is, Matt, but it wasn't a legit ban. Rather it was a piece of wank that I sadly expect from some admins around here.

FREE ESTEBAN BUTTEZ (FREE ESTEBAN BUTTEZ), Friday, 8 December 2006 18:02 (fourteen years ago) link

So basically you're being cranky because you've had your biscuits taken away? Seems pretty childish to me.

Also, note to other trolls, please come back with better arguments than 'there is a clique conspiring against me'.

Matt DC (Matt DC), Friday, 8 December 2006 18:13 (fourteen years ago) link

Sniping is a regular ILX pastime. I do it. We all do it

er, no, yes, and no. that could explain the banning?

Ste (fuzzy), Friday, 8 December 2006 18:47 (fourteen years ago) link

I give you a hard time because you're a timewasting cunt that ruins ILX for myself and indeed, other posters.

How clean's your mirror?

Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 8 December 2006 18:52 (fourteen years ago) link

Anyway, it's really very simple. You've been banned for being a persistent, deliberate nuisance for a long period of time. 99.9% of other ILXers do not do this, even the really dickish/mental ones. You can either stop being a persistent, deliberate nuisance and continue posting. Or you can continue being behaving like Nude Spock and be treated like Nude Spock, which means stay banned, and have every single alterative account and sockpuppet identity immediately banned on sight, from this and the Real ILX.

You can moan all you want but you don't have any say in this arrangement at all as far as I can see.

Matt DC (Matt DC), Friday, 8 December 2006 18:58 (fourteen years ago) link

pashmina has always been level headed and fair in his admin policy for as long as he's had privledges.

chaki (chaki), Friday, 8 December 2006 21:59 (fourteen years ago) link

otm

jergins (jergins), Friday, 8 December 2006 23:37 (fourteen years ago) link

http://base58.com/ilx/poorphil.jpg

is this really esteban?

chaki (chaki), Saturday, 9 December 2006 00:57 (fourteen years ago) link

So basically you're being cranky because you've had your biscuits taken away? Seems pretty childish to me.

I'm cranky because it was done in a bullshit way, as usual.

Also, note to other trolls, please come back with better arguments than 'there is a clique conspiring against me'.

That's good advice. I should know, since I fucking didn't say that!

FREE ESTEBAN BUTTEZ (FREE ESTEBAN BUTTEZ), Saturday, 9 December 2006 01:41 (fourteen years ago) link

is that pic really you?

chaki (chaki), Saturday, 9 December 2006 01:42 (fourteen years ago) link

Anyway, it's really very simple. You've been banned for being a persistent, deliberate nuisance for a long period of time.

Says who? Is there a gauge for all this?

Besides, I can name plenty of people worse than me in that regard.

99.9% of other ILXers do not do this, even the really dickish/mental ones.

Yeahhhhh riiiiiiight.

You can either stop being a persistent, deliberate nuisance and continue posting. Or you can continue being behaving like Nude Spock and be treated like Nude Spock, which means stay banned, and have every single alterative account and sockpuppet identity immediately banned on sight, from this and the Real ILX.

Which you are eventually going to do. Not because I'm anything like Nude Spock but because you have an issue with me, which has nothing to do with the way admins are running this week. In any case, the last time Pashmina and stevem tried to do this and people realised that it nothing more than bullshit. Even other admins, who if it wasn't for the likes of you, would run this place fairly and effectively.

You can moan all you want but you don't have any say in this arrangement at all as far as I can see.

That's because there is nothing resembling democracy around here. Don't want them admins hurt by a wee bit of criticism!

FREE ESTEBAN BUTTEZ (FREE ESTEBAN BUTTEZ), Saturday, 9 December 2006 01:49 (fourteen years ago) link

chaki, of course not. Look at my name!

FREE ESTEBAN BUTTEZ (FREE ESTEBAN BUTTEZ), Saturday, 9 December 2006 01:50 (fourteen years ago) link

pashmina has always been level headed and fair in his admin policy for as long as he's had privledges.

Sorry that's bullshit.

ILX would be better off if he resigned.

FREE ESTEBAN BUTTEZ (FREE ESTEBAN BUTTEZ), Saturday, 9 December 2006 01:51 (fourteen years ago) link

ha

yeah chaki that's esteban

jergins (jergins), Saturday, 9 December 2006 02:05 (fourteen years ago) link

Sorry that's bullshit.

ILX would be better off if he resigned.

ILX likely would not currently exist without him, his patience and his care. That you choose not to even slightly recognize or acknowledge that is one of the stupidest, most moronic things you could have done.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 9 December 2006 02:39 (fourteen years ago) link

ILX likely would not currently exist without him, his patience and his care. That you choose not to even slightly recognize or acknowledge that is one of the stupidest, most moronic things you could have done.

Thanks for deleting the nice thread, Ned! Great response!

ILX would exist without him and for the better. "Patience" and "Care" are hardly the words that come to mind. I'm sorry that you just can't see that.

Nice Esteban Buttez (King Esteban), Saturday, 9 December 2006 02:47 (fourteen years ago) link

lol thats you? lol.

chaki (chaki), Saturday, 9 December 2006 03:05 (fourteen years ago) link

that's him.

grady (grady), Saturday, 9 December 2006 03:35 (fourteen years ago) link

lol @ trollish cunts with a sense of entitlement about their cuntitude. You act like ILX is your mom's welfare check, Esteban, and she's spending it on rent instead of toys for you.

I Am Curious (George) (Slight Return) (Rock Hardy), Saturday, 9 December 2006 03:43 (fourteen years ago) link

Also:

That's because there is nothing resembling democracy around here.

You're right, and nobody's ever said otherwise.

I Am Curious (George) (Slight Return) (Rock Hardy), Saturday, 9 December 2006 03:45 (fourteen years ago) link

Ned: you have a good point, but that thread showed real promise.

grady (grady), Saturday, 9 December 2006 03:54 (fourteen years ago) link

c'mon dudes, disproportionate response - his shtick is pretty easy to ignore and several long-time ilxors spew tons more hate on a regular basis

bliss (blass), Saturday, 9 December 2006 04:03 (fourteen years ago) link

name names.

amon (amon), Saturday, 9 December 2006 04:05 (fourteen years ago) link

not you

bliss (blass), Saturday, 9 December 2006 04:11 (fourteen years ago) link

c'mon dudes, disproportionate response - his shtick is pretty easy to ignore and several long-time ilxors spew tons more hate on a regular basis

What an absurd statement!

Nice Esteban Buttez (King Esteban), Saturday, 9 December 2006 04:38 (fourteen years ago) link

Here's my suggestions to improve ILX. Feel free to dismiss them because I am nothing more than a troll! Booyah!

1/ Let's have a list of PROPER RULES people! Srsly!
2/ Fairer system of punishment: something like three warnings, short-term ban then long-term ban.
3/ Explain the punishments and explain where in the to-be written rules that the poster broke. This will prevent certain admins from banning on a whim as usual.
4/ Explain the reasons behind a deleted thread and explain where in the to-be written rules that the thread broke. This is to stop certain admins deleting on a whim or because they simply just don't like the thread.
5/ Election of a panel of (at least five) admins. Yes, *election* by the ILX community on a yearly basis.
6/ Bans would have to be agreed upon by a majority of the admin panel - again, to stop certain admins banning on a whim or because they have an issue with a poster.
7/ Admins can be stripped of their position if a certain number of posters wish to "recall" them.

This is just a few loose ideas which will be ignored and mocked by certain people in this thread. Just don't say I never have any positive input, OK?

Nice Esteban Buttez (King Esteban), Saturday, 9 December 2006 05:04 (fourteen years ago) link

Thoughts:
1) The only workable rules (ie that won't result in endless legal-type bickering and "but I didn't break the rule!" whining) will be really amorphous and pretty self-explanatory: Don't a be dick. Flickr's one's good too: "Don't be creepy. You know, that guy. Don't be him."

2) I dunno, it's good that I'm not really a mod, cos I'm not for cutting much slack. If someone's going to be a prick, it's either because they're taking the piss and therefore will keep pushing the boundaries, or it's because they're socially broken, and should just be sent packing.

3/4) Nu ILX code doesn't delete anything, only flags it for hiding. So if there is some wanton modding (not that I can really remember any), it's pretty easy to undo.

5+7) You make it sound like admin is some groovy thing that everyone would want, when in fact it's just fixing broken img tags, removing spam and trying to keep the place habitable. We're lucky to have people who'll do that, and I don't think making them josh for the "honour" is a v. good idea.

6) This happens already, off-board.

stet (stet), Saturday, 9 December 2006 05:28 (fourteen years ago) link

1/ Legal-type bickering is good. That means the rules are fair. Air-fairy statements do not work.

2/ That's a pretty simplistic view. If you try warning people, you might be surpised by the amount of people that straighten up.

3/4/ Good. But we still need proper explanations.

5/6/7/ I know it isn't the greatest job in the world, but it should be open to anyone who wants to put their hand up for it. If there isn't enough admins, I'll take on the position since a) I waste a lot of time on here and b) I believe there needs to be more fairness on the board. Elections are a very good idea.

6/ So why not conduct it in public instead of "off-board"? So it can be out in the open and prevents the admins from becoming a clique of sorts.

Nice Esteban Buttez (King Esteban), Saturday, 9 December 2006 06:27 (fourteen years ago) link

1) No, it means we spend more time talking about the letter of the law than following its spirit, which is a pointless waste of everyone's time. Don't be a dick isn't airy fairy, it's the only game in town.

What are the alternatives?
"ILX CODE.
Section 4: Thread creations.
Sub section 5: Titles
4.5.3: You may not post a thread featuring the name of another poster, unless:
4.5.3.1 The named poster is your known acquaintance; or
4.5.3.2 You are attempting to attract the attention of that poster
4.5.4: You may at no time post a thread featuring the name of another poster and sexual or racist language."
Bugger that.

2) Yeh, so warn em, then nuke em if they don't shape up. Why bother going round the houses four or five times?

3/4) Explanations are pretty simple: Person X acted like a dick enough to draw mod attention; consequences followed.

5/6 I need to think more about.

stet (stet), Saturday, 9 December 2006 06:49 (fourteen years ago) link

1) The problem with the "spirit" is that the "spirit" is ill-defined and open to abuse. While I'm not advocating a 100-page rulebook, we need set rules and definitions that posters and admins can follow.

2) That's fine. But we need at least one warning, something that most admins fail to do at all.

3/4) Again, that kind of statement is ill-defined and open to abuse. In any case, certain admins don't even bother to do that.

Nice Esteban Buttez (King Esteban), Saturday, 9 December 2006 07:04 (fourteen years ago) link

Are you saying that you've never been warned about trolling?

grady (grady), Saturday, 9 December 2006 07:07 (fourteen years ago) link

Had he unlocked you?

stet (stet), Sunday, 10 December 2006 23:25 (fourteen years ago) link

No but he never gave any reason for locking me in the first place, so for all I know he could have made a mistake that first time.

Nice Esteban Buttez (King Esteban), Sunday, 10 December 2006 23:28 (fourteen years ago) link

Sin Bins!

Like as in ice hockey.

You get an email, and when you try to post, you get a "you are locked out for 5 hrs 40 mins, 30 secs" type message.

Then they get let out of the box.

And they immediately go over and trip somebody up with their stick!

Like in Slapshot.

M Grout (Mark Grout), Monday, 11 December 2006 08:15 (fourteen years ago) link

Now that's an excellent idea, Grouty.

Nice Esteban Buttez (King Esteban), Monday, 11 December 2006 08:39 (fourteen years ago) link

Banning IS practically the sin bin, given how most people of the type to get banned get around it after a short period of time.

Ideally there would be no way for someone to post on a board for a good few hours once consigned to a 'sin bin'. Unfortunately once blocked that person would probably spam other boards moaning about it e.g. Phil starting threads on MRB, IPE or A/D just to whine about admins or bitch about people in bands he doesn't know and has no reason to care about. Nobody locked for however short a time would actually say 'well this is fair enough, i did act like a dick after all' and spend the rest of the day doing something more useful than baiting, trolling further. So what's the point in trying to make those people more comfortable with the action taken against them?

I don't get why the people causing the problems are the ones bawling the loudest about what is enabling them to cause those problems.

But this is, again, all very reminiscent of C-Man's attitude two years ago. Nothing new at all.

sede vacante (blueski), Monday, 11 December 2006 11:23 (fourteen years ago) link

I don't get why the people causing the problems are the ones bawling the loudest about what is enabling them to cause those problems.

Apart from the obvious pathetic attention-seeking aspect I mean.

sede vacante (blueski), Monday, 11 December 2006 11:24 (fourteen years ago) link

Had he unlocked you?

-- stet (bonaldi@ge

He set up another username, which Matt appears to have also banned.

Paterson, contrary to what you say above, you have repeatededly been asked not to troll the boards, and warned not to as well. Your response has invariably been some variation on either a/"fuck off hitler" b/"i am a beloved forum comedy character, I can do wtf I want" c/"they is keeping the black man down, help me mah niggaz".

Norman Phay (Pashmina), Monday, 11 December 2006 11:40 (fourteen years ago) link

Non sequitur comeback featuring the word "fascist" in 5...4...3...

Fat Lady Wrestler (Modal Fugue), Monday, 11 December 2006 11:47 (fourteen years ago) link

Paterson?

Whoever he really is, I'm glad he's off the boards; got bored shitless having to plough through his tiresome nonsense.

Also, ILx is not a democracy and a certain basic level of respect on the part of posters for other posters is expected. I think that the moderators, especially Norman, have shown remarkable patience with EB, but since he has repeatedly given nothing back to these boards other than his limited repertoire of stock troll responses and devalued potentially interesting threads as a result or side-product, then there really was no alternative other than to ban him.

Of course, if EB is dissatisfied with this then he is free to set up his own message boards with his own time, money and resources.

Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Monday, 11 December 2006 11:51 (fourteen years ago) link

LOL @ ironing.

Pash is a fine moderator and has always responded quickly to any requests or queries I might have had.

kv_nol (kv_nol), Monday, 11 December 2006 11:56 (fourteen years ago) link

A ban means very little unless you're on a specific IP address which Paterson isn't, so he'll presumably BRB with more 'wit and wisdom'.

sede vacante (blueski), Monday, 11 December 2006 11:57 (fourteen years ago) link

Paterson, contrary to what you say above, you have repeatededly been asked not to troll the boards, and warned not to as well.

Have I ever been officialy told? Been e-mailed about it? Asked to sit down and discuss it with you?

Of course not, don't be stupid.

Nice Esteban Buttez (King Esteban), Monday, 11 December 2006 12:17 (fourteen years ago) link

Whoever he really is, I'm glad he's off the boards; got bored shitless having to plough through his tiresome nonsense.

I'm tired of your elitist high-horse attitude, Carlin,.

Also, ILx is not a democracy

Well, it should. Even if it cuts on your attitude.

and a certain basic level of respect on the part of posters for other posters is expected.

Unless you're me.

I think that the moderators, especially Norman, have shown remarkable patience with EB, but since he has repeatedly given nothing back to these boards other than his limited repertoire of stock troll responses and devalued potentially interesting threads as a result or side-product, then there really was no alternative other than to ban him.

Absolute bollocks. Yeah, OK, so I'm a part-time troll in the vein of Passantino. But if you look at all my posts, I do add my fair share to the boards.

Most people posting in this thread haven't ever looked at the mongrels/sheepfuXor threads. They should because I contribute an awful lot to the discussion there in a semi-civil atmosphere.

Of course, if EB is dissatisfied with this then he is free to set up his own message boards with his own time, money and resources.

And why should I? I shouldn't have to. I like ILX and enjoy most of community on here.

Nice Esteban Buttez (King Esteban), Monday, 11 December 2006 12:21 (fourteen years ago) link

A ban means very little unless you're on a specific IP address which Paterson isn't, so he'll presumably BRB with more 'wit and wisdom'.

I am not planning to do re-reg this time, even through I feel I have every right to because this was another bullshit ban.

I am confident that this ban will be overturned in due course.

Nice Esteban Buttez (King Esteban), Monday, 11 December 2006 12:23 (fourteen years ago) link

We don't actually care what or whom you're tired of; you don't run these boards and if you want to stay on any of them you'll do as you're fucking told and behave with civility and respect.

Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Monday, 11 December 2006 12:31 (fourteen years ago) link

big fucking deal. you will be able to re-reg on the new server anyway. (xpost)

sede vacante (blueski), Monday, 11 December 2006 12:32 (fourteen years ago) link

You don't run them either, Carlin. You might be able to get away with this attitude but it isn't going to win you any friends.

Besides, how can I do as I'm fucking told when there are no set rules. And practice what you preach in regards to civility and respect. (Something the admins should try too.)

Nice Esteban Buttez (King Esteban), Monday, 11 December 2006 12:33 (fourteen years ago) link

SO Calum '04 lol

sede vacante (blueski), Monday, 11 December 2006 12:37 (fourteen years ago) link

As for my last thread on ILM, that was not an attempt at "tedious trolling" - rather, a jocular discussion of the Stylus list. I consider myself "web mates" with Passantino and possibly Southall, so I was not disrespecting them or anything. I just wanted to discuss the list.

Nice Esteban Buttez (King Esteban), Monday, 11 December 2006 12:40 (fourteen years ago) link

I've banned both usernames from ILM and zapped his last troll thread. Can someone lock him out of the ModReq forum as well?

(xpost - bollocks, it was trolling)

Matt DC (Matt DC), Monday, 11 December 2006 12:41 (fourteen years ago) link

(And if it wasn't it might as well have been and that no one is prepared to give you the benefit of the doubt is your fault)

Matt DC (Matt DC), Monday, 11 December 2006 12:42 (fourteen years ago) link

Lock me out of ILE/ILM (which you have) but I think the discussion here is important for the time being.

It might have seem to be trolling to you, but it was not.

Nice Esteban Buttez (King Esteban), Monday, 11 December 2006 12:43 (fourteen years ago) link

Boy, wolf etc.

sede vacante (blueski), Monday, 11 December 2006 12:44 (fourteen years ago) link

I was going to say "let's keep this a bit civil, Steve" but now I kinda regret the thread title :-(

Because I think we need a civil discussion here.

Nice Esteban Buttez (King Esteban), Monday, 11 December 2006 12:47 (fourteen years ago) link

I am always civil unless particularly provoked. You do not need provocation as you've demonstrated countless times (e.g. your behaviour on that thread about Gooblar's band/gig last week, plus numerous other instances).

any thread mentioning Stylus automatically triggers the 'troll/spam' alarm as well EVERYONE here knows. ditto Pitchfork. NME is exempt because of what is known as The Martian Anomaly.

sede vacante (blueski), Monday, 11 December 2006 12:49 (fourteen years ago) link

The Gooblar thing was intended as a bit of fun but I admit that I went over the top there.

I started a thread about Pitchfork 60s list a few months thread that started a bit like the Stylus thread, which you may remember. It turned out to be a bit of a decent thread with some interesting discussion.

Nice Esteban Buttez (King Esteban), Monday, 11 December 2006 12:51 (fourteen years ago) link

"few months back", actually.

Nice Esteban Buttez (King Esteban), Monday, 11 December 2006 12:54 (fourteen years ago) link

If you want to discuss things with me, Phil, discuss them here rather than on private email please. I have no wish to enter into an off-list discussion with you.

To answer your questions. I have nothing personal against you. As I sort of said upthread, I don't care about you. Please understand this. I don't care about you. You're just some weird kid who lives thousands of miles away, why should I care about you? Quite possibly IRL you're a nice guy. How would I, or anyone who doesn't post on the aus/nz region thread ever know? I have not been uncivil to you on this thread, as far as I can see. I described you as acting like a dick, which you have been, fairly consistently.

The last time I had to use admin actions against you is as good an example as any to illustrate this. You started a thread on ILE - a racist screed, with Geir's name attached on the end of it. I deleted it. What the fuck else am I supposed to do? It's not OK to impersonate other posters generally, and especially not to post offensive material. So as soon as I deleted it, you post up another thread - an antisemitic screed with my username attached, so I deleted that as well, so you then post up an obnoxious, bleating complaint thread, which I also deleted. At that point I IP banned you, even though I knew you'd be back on with another proxy in 10 minutes or less. You get back on, and start crowing about it on 1p3, as if using a proxy is difficult or something. I post up that it's not OK to impersonate other posters, your response is "I am a beloved forum comedy character, I can do whatever I want".

You have done shit like this over and over and over again. You post goatse in the middle of an ILM thread, it gets deleted, you know it's going to get deleted and you know why, nevertheless, you then spew out a load of bile, about it - Matt DC is a "dumb cunt", steve m is a nazi, I'm a nazi, whatever. Someone posts up something libelous, so it gets deleted. Obviously it's going to get deleted, IRL people have been fucked over in court for having libelous material on their message boards. What do you do? You post it up all over the place, thenwhen it gets deleted, you freak out about it, nazis, hitler, dumb cunts etc etc.

On top of that there's the constant sniping. I read the board over the last week, and in just about every thread I open, there's you, sniping at southall, passatino, carlin, kate saint claire's band, gooblar's band and so on. It's like a dog marking its territory by pissing everywhere. It's a pain in the ass for people, they don't want to read this shit, and they certainly don't want to read it all the time.

You describe youself as a part-time troll, yet the only place you consistently treat people with any decency and respect is on the aus/nz thread, outside of that thread, I'd estimate that about 7/8 of what I read w/your username attached is sniping. Seriously, I see enough personal beefs here, but I don't see anyone else doing that, except for bato, who gets banned on sight these days anyway.

The problem isn't me, or matt, or steve or whoever moderating out of control - anyone can look at the mod logs and see how little moderation actually does get done, since the spambots got locked out. The problem is this behaviour:

1/constant, unpleasant petty sniping

2/repeated posting of unacceptable material (libel, porn, putting offensive words into other people's mouths so to speak)with consequent tantrums when such material is deleted.

What the fuck do you expect to happen when you do this? Your existence does not, as you say, make me so sick that I want you kicked off the boards, the fact that you think I'm a cunt is a matter of total indifference to me, believe me. It basically boils down to what I said upthread:

people should be able to enjoy using the boards without having some idiot constantly sniping at them.

Norman Phay (Pashmina), Monday, 11 December 2006 13:40 (fourteen years ago) link

Very well. I thought a private exchange would be a good thing, but I am happy to discuss it in public.

I admit that I do have a problem and I go over-the-top an awful lot of time. I think the problem has stemmed from the "Esteban Buttez" character. It's been built up and I have been encouraged by other posters to act like a dick. Yes, I should have ignored all that by now but it turns into a habit. If I do post again, it certainly won't be under the Esteban Buttez moniker.

The Geir thing for example was totally wrong but I felt I was encouraged into doing that by other posters who think "Geir hates the darkies" is the absolute height of comedy on ILX. Again, partly my fault.

However, the "sniping" at Passantino and Southall is and was nothing more than a bit of jocularity. I think, and hope, Dom and Nick would agree with this.

Complaining about the deletions was again part of the character. When I posted them, it wasn't to be done as serious but in hindsight I can see why it was tiring.

This has been building up for sometime so maybe all this has needed to happen. But I don't live the way it has come around. I think if an admin e-mailed me what they've seen and discussed it with me, all this could have been avoided. But it hasn't happened and I think it's something the admins look into. I don't think it's fair to lump everyone who breaks the rules as "mindless trolls who are hell-bent on destroying ILX" because it isn't as simple as that.

I don't agree that every post I make is a trolling or sniping one. Yeah, as I said, I've done that too often. But not every post I've made is like that. I feel I have positively contributed to ILX in places. I have been proud to the contributions I've made in some ILE and ILM threads and I do get annoyed when I'm dismissed as a one-dimensional troll. It's partly my fault but it angers me when people don't take all my posts in account. It personally offends me.

I have treated people on the Aus/NZ thread with respect because it's the only place on ILX that I feel have been treated with respect and not as a one-dimensional troll.

I still think the admins are too strict, cliquey and unaccountable. It would benefit the board if we could review all this but I doubt any of the current admins can see this and will dismiss it in sight. Hopefully, stet will give this some thought. We need discussion about the administration on ILX and we need it badly.

Moderating is out of control at time and needs to be fixed. I am sorry for offending people but I am not sorry for my opinion on that issue. We need more free speech on ILX, not less.

If I have offended anyone, I totally apologise for doing so.

Anyway, it's time to call it a day for Esteban Buttez. The Esteban Buttez character is dead as of now.

Nice Esteban Buttez (King Esteban), Monday, 11 December 2006 13:59 (fourteen years ago) link

First "fake" Esteban in 5...4...3...

Fat Lady Wrestler (Modal Fugue), Monday, 11 December 2006 14:01 (fourteen years ago) link

I'm totally serious about this, by the way.

No Longer EB (King Esteban), Monday, 11 December 2006 14:02 (fourteen years ago) link

Yeah, I didn't mean you would be the fake dude.

Fat Lady Wrestler (Modal Fugue), Monday, 11 December 2006 14:03 (fourteen years ago) link

well said Norman. and all true.

there are ways to express opinions and vent frustrations with people/situations and ways not to. if you're unable to grasp what these differences are then go to some dumb unpoliced 'ironic'-bigotry-ridden ISP msgboards instead.

sede vacante (blueski), Monday, 11 December 2006 14:06 (fourteen years ago) link

Because nobody on ILX besides me has been "hilariously ironically bigoted", right?

No Longer EB (King Esteban), Monday, 11 December 2006 14:07 (fourteen years ago) link

I have treated people on the Aus/NZ thread with respect because it's the only place on ILX that I feel have been treated with respect and not as a one-dimensional troll.

Absolute bollocks. Nobody gets branded a troll by admins without first acting like one. You've not earned much genuine respect outside mong/sheep thread BECAUSE of your behaviour - it doesn't work the other way round so stop trying to use that as an excuse.

And trying to blame admins for not giving you enough warning as if they're responsible for your attitude and behaviour is fucking laughable. Grow up.

The vast majority of people on ILX actually seem to manage to express opinions and thoughts without resorting to the shit you've pulled, even if they do feel 'wronged' in some way by someone else every now and then.


We need discussion about the administration on ILX and we need it badly.

I don't think we do because the vast majority of people seem to think that Pashmina is a superb moderator. Only you seem to be disagreeing, mysteriously. So good luck drumming up support for this.

The existing FAQ on real-ILX sets out enough guidelines (it may need a little updating but nothing that radical). It's down to common sense for individuals to realise that behaviour of the sort you've exhibited is probably not a good idea.

ILX was here for a long time before you showed up and on the whole managed just fine without 'elections' for moderators and other idealistic bullshit (fwiw Pashmina would trounce any 'election' anyway so what is the point of the argument?). No reason why that can't continue with or without you.

sede vacante (blueski), Monday, 11 December 2006 14:18 (fourteen years ago) link

Moderating is out of control at time and needs to be fixed. I am sorry for offending people but I am not sorry for my opinion on that issue. We need more free speech on ILX, not less.

Explain this. Do you really think you shouldn't have been banned for the reasons Matt and Pashmina give upthread?

Free speech < common courtesy and respect to other people. Your right to insult/offend people vs their right not to be offended can only go so far.

If you don't practice the latter you violate your right to the former - certainly on an environment like a specific internet msg board like ILX.

You might as well be complaining to the manager of a bar having been thrown out because you think you should've been allowed to sit there hurling abuse at people as they walked in and out.

sede vacante (blueski), Monday, 11 December 2006 14:25 (fourteen years ago) link

I feel my opinion, has tarinished as it may be, is valid. I believe Pashmina is lacking as an admin. Not everyone agrees that he is a the world's greatest administrator. The biggest problem with Pashmina is that he need to recognise he has faults.

If he's so popular then why don't you want a democratic election? If there isn't enough admins, then my offer of doing any admin work that needs to be done stands.

The ILX FAQ is a vague document that badly needs updating. At least you can see it need an update. But what is "common sense"? Everyone has a different opinion of "common sense".

I feel the use of the phrase "idealistic bullshit" is pretty insulting and makes you look bad, imho.

Whether you like it or not, I have been part of the ILX community for over a year. The ILX community is bigger than a single poster be it me, Pashmina or yourself. Remember that.

No Longer EB (King Esteban), Monday, 11 December 2006 14:26 (fourteen years ago) link

Number of people on ILX who have ever had a problem like this with Pashmina:

1) Calum (notorious troll of yore)
2) Phil (notorious troll of modern times)

Think that pretty much covers it but do say if I've missed a third person.

sede vacante (blueski), Monday, 11 December 2006 14:27 (fourteen years ago) link

Have I abused my free speech? Yes. But according to your argument, the people who have encouraged the Esteban Buttez character are equally as guilty - so when will they be banned?

No Longer EB (King Esteban), Monday, 11 December 2006 14:27 (fourteen years ago) link

There are other people on the board who dislike Pashmina. Not everyone makes their opinion public for obvious reasons.

No Longer EB (King Esteban), Monday, 11 December 2006 14:28 (fourteen years ago) link

Death threats?

Fat Lady Wrestler (Modal Fugue), Monday, 11 December 2006 14:29 (fourteen years ago) link

But, y'know what? I'm willing to draw a line in the stand. I'm willing to work with Pashmina and the whole ILX community. I'm willing to put all the trolling behind me and start being a regular poster like everyone else if I'm allowed the opportunity.

No Longer EB (King Esteban), Monday, 11 December 2006 14:30 (fourteen years ago) link

Most people who criticise Pash end up 'mysteriously disappearing'. You're lucky you've only been banned.

The goose flies at night (Matt DC), Monday, 11 December 2006 14:31 (fourteen years ago) link

Very funny, guys.

No Longer EB (King Esteban), Monday, 11 December 2006 14:32 (fourteen years ago) link

I think Pash is a total CONTROVERSIAL MODERATOR EDIT

Fat Lady Wrestler (Modal Fugue), Monday, 11 December 2006 14:33 (fourteen years ago) link

the people who have encouraged the Esteban Buttez character

can you please stop writing stuff like this? i have stomach ache from wtf-laughing

sede vacante (blueski), Monday, 11 December 2006 14:34 (fourteen years ago) link

can you please stop writing stuff like this? i have stomach ache from wtf-laughing

I am being totally serious about this. Do your research and you will see that I have been encouraged by an awful lot of posters for too long, which is why I've been in the vicious cycle of insulting people at random for too long.

I'm trying to be serious here.

No Longer EB (King Esteban), Monday, 11 December 2006 14:36 (fourteen years ago) link

I'm willing to draw a line in the stand. I'm willing to work with Pashmina and the whole ILX community. I'm willing to put all the trolling behind me and start being a regular poster like everyone else if I'm allowed the opportunity.

-- No Longer EB (estiebuttez...), Today 2:30 PM. (King Esteban) (later) (admin) (userip)

Do it, please. And talk of this no more.

stet (stet), Monday, 11 December 2006 14:39 (fourteen years ago) link

five months pass...

How did I miss this.

Funny enough, I think I was on my way to Australia.

Pleasant Plains, Saturday, 9 June 2007 04:42 (thirteen years ago) link

i'd forgotten about this one. esteban opens his heart!

jergins, Sunday, 10 June 2007 01:30 (thirteen years ago) link


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