REM "World Leader Pretend": C or D?

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hey let's put castanets and pedal steel on it

― Tim Ellison is number one proponent of Beatle!!!Mania!!! on nu-ILX (tim ellison), Wednesday, 3 January 2007 19:32 (seventeen years ago) link

I love that bit! Classic.

― Stewart Smith (Stew), Wednesday, 3 January 2007 19:37 (seventeen years ago) link

What is this, Post R.E.M'S Obscure Moments Day?

I never undestood why Stipe felt the lyrics were strong enough to print. This song is no "I Believe" or "Begin the Begin."

― Alfred Soto (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 3 January 2007 19:40 (seventeen years ago) link

I propose this song as their biggest wtf moment.

― Tim Ellison is number one proponent of Beatle!!!Mania!!! on nu-ILX (tim ellison), Wednesday, 3 January 2007 19:45 (seventeen years ago) link

I like Stipe's Gang Of Four homage/rip off when they play this song on the Green live video - banging a drumstick against a metal frame chair. Of course, John King has gone several steps better in the reformed G04 by beating the shit out of a microwave with a monkeywrench.

Biggest WTF? moment? It's hardly Shiny Happy People or Radio Song.

― Stew (Stew), Wednesday, 3 January 2007 20:06 (seventeen years ago) link

But when you add these things up:

"Do a verse where we strum D to G to C"
Lyrics that do not scan - no melody
overdub an extra snare drum
put castanets on it
put pedal steel on it

the thing DOESN'T MAKE ANY SENSE

(to such an extent, even, that I gotta say: Classique!)

― Tim Ellison is number one proponent of Beatle!!!Mania!!! on nu-ILX (tim ellison), Wednesday, 3 January 2007 20:10 (seventeen years ago) link

green is my favorite REM album and this is the prettiest thing on it.

― urghonomic (gcannon), Wednesday, 3 January 2007 20:36 (seventeen years ago) link

Green is such a strange album, and I'm not sure if it's because it's transitional or because it's just framed as being a little eerie. I mean, on one hand, it's almost as if they came into it wanting to do even bigger rock songs than on Document, and laid down a few of those stadium numbers ... and then suddenly started in on these quiet mandolin-y strummers? (Especially weird in that the mandolin-y strummers are sketches of what they'd seem to be concentrating on with the next two albums, but then suddenly after that they double back and pick up the big rock song thread -- this album's like half "next up let's make Out of Time" and half "next up let's make Monster.") But then on the other hand there's a sort of continuity between both of those parts, with like "I Remember California" bridging them a bit, and some of the rockers having an eerie quality that fits with stuff like "The Wrong Child" ... I dunno. Either way, I think it's to REM's credit that the farther we get away from when these records were made, the stranger they same, different from both other records of the time and different from how the band's chiefly thought of and remembered.

― nabisco (nabisco), Wednesday, 3 January 2007 21:12 (seventeen years ago) link

half "next up let's make Monster."

"Turn You Inside Out" is totally the precursor to the sludgy New Adventures in Hi-Fi tunes.

― Tim Ellison is number one proponent of Beatle!!!Mania!!! on nu-ILX (tim ellison), Wednesday, 3 January 2007 21:30 (seventeen years ago) link

The B-side of Green is their worst until the late nineties.

― Alfred Soto (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 3 January 2007 21:53 (seventeen years ago) link

The B-side of Green is their worst until the late nineties.

Hi, I'm Out Of Time. Remember me?

― Name Not Found (rogermexico), Wednesday, 3 January 2007 21:59 (seventeen years ago) link

Whoa, "Half a World Away," "Country Feedback," and "Me in Honey" (plus "Losing My Religion") are the best songs on that album.

― Tim Ellison is number one proponent of Beatle!!!Mania!!! on nu-ILX (tim ellison), Wednesday, 3 January 2007 22:03 (seventeen years ago) link

The B Side of Green is miles miles better than the A Side. The A Side has Stand and the Wrong Child, both of which are horrible awful songs. The B Side has Turn You Inside Out, Orange Crush, and that weird last song that I've always liked (but ugh, I Remember California). Still: a pretty terrible album.

― Mr. Que (Party with me Punker), Wednesday, 3 January 2007 22:04 (seventeen years ago) link

Out Of Time is probably my favorite album I haven't listened to in 10 years.

― has been plagued with problems since its erection in 1978 (nklshs), Wednesday, 3 January 2007 22:05 (seventeen years ago) link

"The Wrong Child" > "Hairshirt"

― Tim Ellison is number one proponent of Beatle!!!Mania!!! on nu-ILX (tim ellison), Wednesday, 3 January 2007 22:07 (seventeen years ago) link

my favourite REM album (gulp) and (other than the IRS years comp) the earliest I've heard. ok, kick me now.

― da mystery of sandboxin' (fandango), Wednesday, 3 January 2007 22:13 (seventeen years ago) link

Whoa, "Half a World Away," "Country Feedback," and "Me in Honey" (plus "Losing My Religion") are the best songs on that album.

Tim and I agree! Don't forget "Texarkana."

― Alfred Soto (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 3 January 2007 22:31 (seventeen years ago) link

Yeah, second side of OOT is better than the first. Ok it's got Shiny Happy People and doesn't have LMR but otherwise it PWNS.

I really like Wrong Child and Hairshirt - they sit weirdly on there and I like that. I remember when I first heard that album in my teens. I knew the jolly pop songs like Stand so was taken aback and quite unsettled. Maybe the lonely kid thing struck a nerve. They seem to anticipate the weirder, darker songs on Automatic like Monty Got A Raw Deal and Sweetness Follows, as well as see the band take the Pylon/G04 angularity of Document/Feeling Gravity's Pull into acoustic textures. Indeed it's a shame they didn't explore that angle further - I like the idea of Americana mixed with austere European post-punk/art-rock.

― Stewart Smith (Stew), Wednesday, 3 January 2007 23:24 (seventeen years ago) link

REM was the first band whose discography I consumed whole-hog, and at an early enough age that I have a hard time judging it as quality music. Even as I hear more and its eccentricity is made clearer with the expanding context, I can't begin to think of more than a handful of songs through 1994 as being "bad." Certainly not "World Leader Pretend." That one rules.

― m1cc1o (m1cc1o), Wednesday, 3 January 2007 23:44 (seventeen years ago) link

I can't think of anything on Green (the first CD I ever paid for) as being bad! Even "Turn You Inside Out" or "I Remember California." Better PC stadium rock than most Green Day or U2.

― m1cc1o (m1cc1o), Wednesday, 3 January 2007 23:48 (seventeen years ago) link

Not even "Hairshirt," Anthony? It sounds like Wings-goes-arena!

― Alfred Soto (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 3 January 2007 23:53 (seventeen years ago) link

― Tim Ellison is number one proponent of Beatle!!!Mania!!! on nu-ILX (tim ellison), Wednesday, 3 January 2007 23:54 (seventeen years ago) link

It sounds like Wings?

― Tim Ellison is number one proponent of Beatle!!!Mania!!! on nu-ILX (tim ellison), Wednesday, 3 January 2007 23:54 (seventeen years ago) link

I love "Hairshirt"! I have no idea whats Wingsy about that one (or even that arenaish!), but I haven't heard that much Wings. Did they rock the mandolin often?

There's a few moments on Out Of Time where Mike Mills needs to chill the fuck out, though.

― m1cc1o (m1cc1o), Wednesday, 3 January 2007 23:54 (seventeen years ago) link

Either that our make a whole solo album filled with songs like "Texarkana." That would be awesome.

― m1cc1o (m1cc1o), Wednesday, 3 January 2007 23:55 (seventeen years ago) link

Yes! Relisten to it.

(xpost to Tim)

― Alfred Soto (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 3 January 2007 23:56 (seventeen years ago) link

He could cover the Moody Blues' "In Your Wildest Dreams"

― m1cc1o (m1cc1o), Wednesday, 3 January 2007 23:57 (seventeen years ago) link

I'll say this for Green: "You Are The Everything" sounded great in that "90210" episode in which Dylan sobs quietly on the couch remembering how much his dad loved him.

― Alfred Soto (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 3 January 2007 23:57 (seventeen years ago) link

I am! What Wings does it sound like to you, Alfie? I hear it as POST-PUNK WEIRDO DUDES WHO R RICHARD THOMPSON FANS type of thing, naturally.

― Tim Ellison is number one proponent of Beatle!!!Mania!!! on nu-ILX (tim ellison), Thursday, 4 January 2007 00:00 (seventeen years ago) link

The only time Mills annoys me is on "Near Wild Heaven," but in 1991 it seemed like the height of perversity to hear him sing lead (I hadn't heard "Superman" yet) so I forgave him.

― Alfred Soto (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 4 January 2007 00:01 (seventeen years ago) link

It sounds like something off London Town or Back to the Egg (well, I've only heard "Getting Closer") -- an acoustic pastoral that has arena ambitions or a genuine tubthumper too intimate or stoner-inflected to play before a large crowd.

― Alfred Soto (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 4 January 2007 00:02 (seventeen years ago) link

I've never considered whether the mandolin numbers on Green were conceived with arena ambition or not. London Town has a quiet ballad in "I'm Carrying" and also "Don't Let It Bring You Down," which (like "Mull of Kintyre" from around the same time) had some traditional folk elements.

― Tim Ellison is number one proponent of Beatle!!!Mania!!! on nu-ILX (tim ellison), Thursday, 4 January 2007 00:27 (seventeen years ago) link

I love "Near Wild Heaven"! I'm thinking more of his occasional display of hot licks.

― m1cc1o (m1cc1o), Thursday, 4 January 2007 00:28 (seventeen years ago) link

(Back to the Egg is totally worth getting cheap on vinyl, btw. Side one is really good.)

― Tim Ellison is number one proponent of Beatle!!!Mania!!! on nu-ILX (tim ellison), Thursday, 4 January 2007 00:42 (seventeen years ago) link

If I made my peace with "Near Wild Heaven," I will with Back to the Egg.

I haven't read one satisfactory review of Out of Time. Christgau's comes closest to nailing it.

― Alfred Soto (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 4 January 2007 00:48 (seventeen years ago) link

If I made my peace with "Near Wild Heaven," I will with Back to the Egg.

well then u r in for a treat!

― Tim Ellison is number one proponent of Beatle!!!Mania!!! on nu-ILX (tim ellison), Thursday, 4 January 2007 01:05 (seventeen years ago) link

(side one, anyway)

― Tim Ellison is number one proponent of Beatle!!!Mania!!! on nu-ILX (tim ellison), Thursday, 4 January 2007 01:05 (seventeen years ago) link

"world leader pretend" is a great song.

― Tyrone Slothrop (Tyrone Slothrop), Thursday, 4 January 2007 02:56 (seventeen years ago) link

Will always remember this as the first song my college radio station played after the U.S. started bombing Iraq to start Gulf War I. Seemed very profound at the time.

― Mark (Mark R), Thursday, 4 January 2007 13:36 (seventeen years ago) link

1989 was so cheesy

anyway i listened to this album for the first time in years this morning. this was always the point where REM started to drop off for me, but this song is okay; hairshirt is GREAT; the wrong child is still fucking awful (it would be fine with different lyrics or even better, NONE).

― akm (akmonday), Thursday, 4 January 2007 18:13 (seventeen years ago) link

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