What sounds better imperfect?

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Some artists are known for their perfectionism, whereas others showcase a looser style of recording. While some can't quite get away with it, others thrive on a messier mode of production.

Name a few that really work the sloppy-cool style.

― Ramzi Awn (Awn, R), Thursday, 28 December 2006 18:40 (seventeen years ago) link

As someone who listens to a bunch of indie-rock, I'm not even sure where to begin answering this: the ethos of the whole genre is built in large part on the imperfect/cool thing.

― nabisco (nabisco), Thursday, 28 December 2006 18:42 (seventeen years ago) link

I would suggest that a lot of the reverie for delta blues is based on this conceit.

― Michael (Oakland Mike), Thursday, 28 December 2006 18:43 (seventeen years ago) link

(I mean, even some of the people who are actually being perfectionists and trying to nail everything are actually working -- consciously or not -- within an aesthetic that's beholden to the sloppy/cool part, which I think sometimes turns out interesting and sometimes turns out awful, like someone winds up with the absolute worst of both sides.)

― nabisco (nabisco), Thursday, 28 December 2006 18:44 (seventeen years ago) link

Actually I think early blues are going to be pretty hard to fit into this system of thinking, because we're talking from an age where the "perfectionism" part is as much in the recording technology and the presentation as in the performance -- a whole different mindset from that stuff. I mean, I'd agree that those blues are basically the onset, for American music, of people being excited about the "raw"/"human" performance, but the thing is that there's a virtuousity to the way those guys performed that, something that's really different from the modern sloppy cool it might be one root of; if you take it apart musicologically there are ways in which that stuff is a technical part of the music (like certain lags in the beat and tempo switches) that make it a little more complicated than usual to say whether that's a "sloppy" aesthetic or actually virtuoso performance.

― nabisco (nabisco), Thursday, 28 December 2006 18:53 (seventeen years ago) link

jazz

funk

― JordanC (JordanC), Thursday, 28 December 2006 18:53 (seventeen years ago) link

ILM

― Johnny Cash Rules Everything Around Me (Modal Fugue), Thursday, 28 December 2006 18:56 (seventeen years ago) link

(Hey Jordan, how much of a divide do you see -- in these here perfect/imperfect terms -- between like early and late funk? Or like JBs machine-style staccato-interlock funk and like 70s loosey-goosey bouncy-bass funk?)

― nabisco (nabisco), Thursday, 28 December 2006 18:58 (seventeen years ago) link

madlib

― and what (ooo), Thursday, 28 December 2006 19:01 (seventeen years ago) link

Punk (duh).

― Colonel Poo (Colonel Poo), Thursday, 28 December 2006 19:13 (seventeen years ago) link

I prefer my crackling vinyl version of Tom Waits' Rain Dogs to the CD.

― StanM (StanM), Thursday, 28 December 2006 19:22 (seventeen years ago) link

"As someone who listens to a bunch of indie-rock, I'm not even sure where to begin answering this: the ethos of the whole genre is built in large part on the imperfect/cool thing."

sure, well then what indie crock bands are in large part perfectionist

― Ramzi Awn (Awn, R), Thursday, 28 December 2006 19:23 (seventeen years ago) link

Smegma.

― adam beales (pye poudre), Thursday, 28 December 2006 19:24 (seventeen years ago) link

also interesting to think about is whether sloppy-cool comes from lack of skill

or from artistic ambition

― Ramzi Awn (Awn, R), Thursday, 28 December 2006 19:26 (seventeen years ago) link

Yeah, I was actually thinking of JB as a counterexample.

I guess in my theory of funk of there's got to be tight and loose elements in some kind of balance. I totally know what you're talking about with the loosey-goosey 70's funk, which doesn't work me for me when everyone in the band is playing busy/rock-ish.

I remember reading some Prince interview where he said he would start with the stiff drum machine beats and then overdub live percussion/other stuff on top until it came to life. Or the opposite w/the Meters studio stuff where the guitar/bass/organ lines are basically set in stone and the drums fill in the gaps. So many different ways to make it happen.

― JordanC (JordanC), Thursday, 28 December 2006 19:31 (seventeen years ago) link

Jim Shephard/V3
All of New Zealand

― dan selzer (dan selzer), Thursday, 28 December 2006 19:41 (seventeen years ago) link

Sloppy/cool sometimes comes from a lack of skill and/or artistic ambition. And sometimes it's an organizing aesthetic, a way of focusing ambition. And sometimes it's a combination of those things, or something else entirely.

Like funk and jazz, most indie rock walks a tightrope between the slurred allure of "authenticity" and the trad (Appollonian) virtues of precision, composition, forethought, intelligence and mechanical skill. Obv.

Yeesh. Some people want music to sound like it's falling off a cliff, held together with sink hair and melted cheese, while other people want it to sound like orchestrated angel farts wafting down from heaven. Neither approach has a let up on the other.

― adam beales (pye poudre), Thursday, 28 December 2006 19:55 (seventeen years ago) link

hahaha

i do think it's always an interplay between both sides

― Ramzi Awn (Awn, R), Thursday, 28 December 2006 20:05 (seventeen years ago) link

I don't know exactly how to define "imperfect" although a lot of 60s acts have come up with new recordings of their old hits that are plain and utter rubbish, in spite of superior audio. Probably more due to losing inspiration than a matter of sounding too "clever" though.

― Geir Hongro (geirhong), Thursday, 28 December 2006 20:17 (seventeen years ago) link

black metal

― latebloomer (clonefeed), Thursday, 28 December 2006 20:25 (seventeen years ago) link

The Buzzcocks

― step hen faps (Curt1s Stephens), Thursday, 28 December 2006 21:15 (seventeen years ago) link

Much of the delta blues "sloppiness" came from limitations in the technology. Everything was done in one take with no over-dubs. Some players were very accomplished. I don't know of too many guitar players who are as good as Mississippi John Hurt.

― Ice Ice Cream Baby (The Dirty Vicar), Thursday, 28 December 2006 21:22 (seventeen years ago) link

There's something more exciting about guitar solos when they're Not Exactly Right. It's kind of a roller-coaster effect, sure it's fun going up and down all fast and stuff, but what will REALLY get your heart racing is the car falling off the tracks.

― has been plagued with problems since its erection in 1978 (nklshs), Thursday, 28 December 2006 21:22 (seventeen years ago) link

I think I'm thinking mostly though of ridiculous rock guitar.

― has been plagued with problems since its erection in 1978 (nklshs), Thursday, 28 December 2006 21:22 (seventeen years ago) link

CrazySloppyCool

― jaymc (jaymc), Thursday, 28 December 2006 21:24 (seventeen years ago) link

It's true though, it's the same with horn solos. Everyone hears the mistakes (or "mistakes") they make in solos and thinks it sounds awful, but I think the ear is pretty forgiving. It's kind of exciting to hear someone stumble or fuck up and then come back with something hot.

(unfortunately the same thing rarely applies to playing grooves)

― JordanC (JordanC), Thursday, 28 December 2006 21:29 (seventeen years ago) link

I don't know of too many guitar players who are as good as Mississippi John Hurt.

Right, but he isn't technically a good singer, nor are most blues singers. I greatly prefer them to a more technically impressive singer (Whitney Houston?) in terms of range and pitch quality and all that.

Also, Hurt was a very talented guitarist but there is a good deal of imperfection in his actual guitar playing. He doesn't play in perfect time and didn't always hit the right notes, you know? Perhaps he could play with robot-like precision but why bother?

― Michael (Oakland Mike), Thursday, 28 December 2006 21:29 (seventeen years ago) link

cat power, totally respect her thing - i mean she even gives me courage sometimes, you know, to feel like i don't have to write a symphony every time

but does she ever sheen it up? i feel like she should if she doesn't, at least sometimes.

running out of work not making much sense.

― Ramzi Awn (Awn, R), Thursday, 28 December 2006 23:06 (seventeen years ago) link

she sheens it up, don't worry

― sexyDancer (sexyDancer), Thursday, 28 December 2006 23:07 (seventeen years ago) link

A Jazz head insisted to me once that Miles Davis will always be a better musician than Wynton Marsalis because you never hear Winton hit a wrong note and you frequently hear Miles do so.

― grady (grady), Thursday, 28 December 2006 23:12 (seventeen years ago) link

ahh yes, mr newjazz mcstrawman

― and what (ooo), Thursday, 28 December 2006 23:22 (seventeen years ago) link

most folk music and most country music. now i take mah leave.

― the table is the table (trees), Thursday, 28 December 2006 23:58 (seventeen years ago) link

"If hitting wrong notes is cool, consider me Miles Davis!"

― the pony-poop paradox (the pony-poop paradox), Friday, 29 December 2006 07:17 (seventeen years ago) link

My old folk 78s.

― Mr. Snrub (Mr. Snrub), Friday, 29 December 2006 12:07 (seventeen years ago) link

Ariel Pink

― henry s (henry s), Friday, 29 December 2006 15:33 (seventeen years ago) link

Those guitar solos on Double Live. Especially on track three, disc one.

― Ivan Gallardo (Ivan), Friday, 29 December 2006 16:14 (seventeen years ago) link

which Double Live you talkin?

― sexyDancer (sexyDancer), Friday, 29 December 2006 16:16 (seventeen years ago) link

First one (PSF 3/4).

― Ivan Gallardo (Ivan), Friday, 29 December 2006 16:37 (seventeen years ago) link

Do classical musicians think all other genres are sloppy?

― daniel seward (bunnybrain), Friday, 29 December 2006 16:42 (seventeen years ago) link

maybe ;P

except for like avant garde classical with shrieks of violin and plucking pianos

― Ramzi Awn (Awn, R), Friday, 29 December 2006 16:45 (seventeen years ago) link

1988 Frank Marino Double Live
1989 Butthole Surfers Double Live
1993 Keiji Haino & Fushitsusha Double Live
1997 Classic Rock All-Stars Double Live
1997 Rheostatics Double Live
1998 Garth Brooks Double Live
1999 France Gall Double Live
2000 Yngwie J. Malmsteen Double Live
2001 Johnny Socko Double Live
2002 Demis Roussos Double Live
2006 Etypejazz Double Live

― sexyDancer (sexyDancer), Friday, 29 December 2006 16:45 (seventeen years ago) link

FUSHITSUSHA

― Ivan Gallardo (Ivan), Friday, 29 December 2006 16:47 (seventeen years ago) link

dunno whether 'tis a right thingy to say here but i really am of teh 'pinion that maher shalal hash baz sound most perfect in their, well, 'imperfection'.

― tiit (t**t), Friday, 29 December 2006 16:48 (seventeen years ago) link

1989 got some dope slop jams

― sexyDancer (sexyDancer), Friday, 29 December 2006 16:49 (seventeen years ago) link

sure, well then what indie crock bands are in large part perfectionist

unrest

― 69 (pete), Friday, 29 December 2006 16:52 (seventeen years ago) link

The Birthday Party
"Metallic K.O."
Charlie Manson

― adam beales (pye poudre), Friday, 29 December 2006 16:52 (seventeen years ago) link

dope slop jams is a great expression

― Ramzi Awn (Awn, R), Saturday, 30 December 2006 01:45 (seventeen years ago) link

Jazz solos definitely sound better imperfect. I dunno who the trumpet player on Les McCann & Eddie Harris's Swiss Movement but he fucks things up in all the right ways on "Cold Duck Time."

― step hen faps (Curt1s Stephens), Sunday, 31 December 2006 04:24 (seventeen years ago) link

Everything sounds better imperfect.

― Sick Mouthy (sickmouthy), Sunday, 31 December 2006 11:08 (seventeen years ago) link

Yer sick, Sick maaaan!
:)

― tiit (t**t), Monday, 1 January 2007 18:52 (seventeen years ago) link

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