james brown is dead

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no, really. ;_; rip, godfather ;_;

By GREG BLUESTEIN, Associated Press Writer 1 minute ago

James Brown, the legendary singer known as the "Godfather of Soul," has died, his agent said early Monday. He was 73.

Brown was hospitalized with pneumonia on Sunday at Emory Crawford Long Hospital and died around 1:45 a.m. Monday, said his agent, Frank Copsidas of Intrigue Music. Longtime friend Charles Bobbit was by his side, he said.

Copsidas said Brown's family was being notified of his death and that the cause was still uncertain. "We really don't know at this point what he died of," he said.

Along with Elvis Presley, Bob Dylan and a handful of others, Brown was one of the major musical influences of the past 50 years. At least one generation idolized him, and sometimes openly copied him. His rapid-footed dancing inspired Mick Jagger and Michael Jackson among others. Songs such as David Bowie's "Fame," Prince's "Kiss," George Clinton's "Atomic Dog" and Sly and the Family Stone's "Sing a Simple Song" were clearly based on Brown's rhythms and vocal style.

If Brown's claim to the invention of soul can be challenged by fans of Ray Charles and Sam Cooke, then his rights to the genres of rap, disco and funk are beyond question. He was to rhythm and dance music what Dylan was to lyrics: the unchallenged popular innovator.

"James presented obviously the best grooves," rapper Chuck D of Public Enemy once told The Associated Press. "To this day, there has been no one near as funky. No one's coming even close."

His hit singles include such classics as "Out of Sight," "(Get Up I Feel Like Being a) Sex Machine," "I Got You (I Feel Good)" and "Say It Out Loud — I'm Black and I'm Proud," a landmark 1968 statement of racial pride.

"I clearly remember we were calling ourselves colored, and after the song, we were calling ourselves black," said in a 2003 Associated Press interview. "The song showed even people to that day that lyrics and music and a song can change society."

He won a Grammy award for lifetime achievement in 1992, as well as Grammys in 1965 for "Papa's Got a Brand New Bag" (best R&B recording) and for "Living In America" in 1987 (best R&B vocal performance, male.) He was one of the initial artists inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame in 1986, along with Presley, Chuck Berry and other founding fathers.

He triumphed despite an often unhappy personal life. Brown, who lived in Beech Island near the Georgia line, spent more than two years in a South Carolina prison for aggravated assault and failing to stop for a police officer. After his release on in 1991, Brown said he wanted to "try to straighten out" rock music.

From the 1950s, when Brown had his first R&B hit, "Please, Please, Please" in 1956, through the mid-1970s, Brown went on a frenzy of cross-country tours, concerts and new songs. He earned the nickname "The Hardest Working Man in Show Business."

With his tight pants, shimmering feet, eye makeup and outrageous hair, Brown set the stage for younger stars such as Michael Jackson and Prince.

In 1986, he was inducted in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. And rap stars of recent years overwhelmingly have borrowed his lyrics with a digital technique called sampling.

Brown's work has been replayed by the Fat Boys, Ice-T, Public Enemy and a host of other rappers. "The music out there is only as good as my last record," Brown joked in a 1989 interview with Rolling Stone magazine.

"Disco is James Brown, hip-hop is James Brown, rap is James Brown; you know what I'm saying? You hear all the rappers, 90 percent of their music is me," he told the AP in 2003.

Tyrone Slothrop (Tyrone Slothrop), Monday, 25 December 2006 08:07 (seventeen years ago) link

ahhh shit

chaki (chaki), Monday, 25 December 2006 08:09 (seventeen years ago) link

:(

Tyrone Slothrop (Tyrone Slothrop), Monday, 25 December 2006 08:09 (seventeen years ago) link

I AM MORTIFIED.

Krill Legitamate-m (Krill Legitamate-m), Monday, 25 December 2006 08:10 (seventeen years ago) link

wha? fuck.

No Time Before Time (Barry Barry), Monday, 25 December 2006 08:10 (seventeen years ago) link

This is terrible.

RIP forever.

deej (deej), Monday, 25 December 2006 08:14 (seventeen years ago) link

as soon as it's morning, I'm playing Mother Popcorn.

jawahahlolllll nehru (m bison), Monday, 25 December 2006 08:18 (seventeen years ago) link

worst christmas present

nervous (nervous), Monday, 25 December 2006 08:19 (seventeen years ago) link

holy shit.

rip, mr. brown.

godfather forever.

x-post i wasn't gonna say it, but otm

hoo got it for steen, vol. 2 (hoosteen), Monday, 25 December 2006 08:20 (seventeen years ago) link

oh my fucking god.

RIP

step hen faps (Curt1s Stephens), Monday, 25 December 2006 08:28 (seventeen years ago) link

This is lousy, but given the date I've got to say JB even managed to die with style. There aren't words to do justice to how important he is.

RIP Godfather.

Fat Lady Wrestler (Modal Fugue), Monday, 25 December 2006 08:29 (seventeen years ago) link

He kept busy til the end...one of the greatest. And everyone says that all the time but fuck, the guy is responsible directly and indirectly for some massive percentage of the music i listen to...

deej (deej), Monday, 25 December 2006 08:30 (seventeen years ago) link

Aw, hell.

Owwwwwwwwwwwwwww!

editio princeps (pato.g27), Monday, 25 December 2006 08:32 (seventeen years ago) link

oh no!!!

;___;

Eisbär (Eisbär), Monday, 25 December 2006 08:35 (seventeen years ago) link

RIP. now i hope there's an afterlife.

GAWD PVNCH (yournullfame), Monday, 25 December 2006 08:44 (seventeen years ago) link

I was reading about his stay in the hospital minutes ago.

Bizarro Cunga (Cunga), Monday, 25 December 2006 08:56 (seventeen years ago) link

Is this the biggest rock death since George Harrison in 2001? (and when I say "biggest" I mean in terms of likely coverage and such)

Bizarro Cunga (Cunga), Monday, 25 December 2006 08:58 (seventeen years ago) link

"Lost Someone"
I said if you leave me I'll go craaazy *DA DNN*...
If you leaaaave me *DA DNN* There's only one thing I can do now *DA DNN* There's only one thing I can say *DA DNN* There's only one thing I can say *DA DNN*...

I lost someone, myyy love--Someone who's greater than a staaarararr ooh
Someone who I need, someone, who don't let my heaaaaraart bleeeeed
Someone, that someone, that's the somone, that's the someone that I lost...
I love you tomorrow, I love you today, Help me help meeeeEEeee, I'm so weak
Gee whiz I love you, I'm so weak...

----------------

"You got your rap and your disco,
You got your drum machine.
You got your R-rated gangster,
You got your grungy scene.
You got your state of the art,
You got your digital sound.

It doesn't matter where it's going to
I'll still be diggin' on James Brown.

You know the more things change, the more they stay the same. It may be a different age but I'm on the same page. 'Cause there's one thing I have found--I'll still be digging on James Brown." - Tower of Power
(I listened to this song randomly coming back from a midnight church service this morning. Coincidences can be odd.)

Mitch Good Buddy How Are You (Mitch Good Buddy How Are You), Monday, 25 December 2006 09:16 (seventeen years ago) link

x-post
Since Johnny Cash at least.

RIP. Time to get out the Star Time box.

Marmot (marmotwolof), Monday, 25 December 2006 09:18 (seventeen years ago) link

Oh christ, somehow I thought he was never gonna die.

The single most important musician of the 20th century, I'd say.

RIP

Tuomas (Tuomas), Monday, 25 December 2006 09:31 (seventeen years ago) link

unbelievable and sad! rest easy, godfather.

urghonomic (gcannon), Monday, 25 December 2006 09:37 (seventeen years ago) link

Wait, Ray Charles died after Cash. Man, these past few years...

Marmot (marmotwolof), Monday, 25 December 2006 09:40 (seventeen years ago) link

Ahhh, he was booked to play here soon!

Huk-L (Huk-L), Monday, 25 December 2006 10:00 (seventeen years ago) link

god, that sucks. :-(

i'll be playing his xmas album tomorrow for sure.

j.d. (j.d.), Monday, 25 December 2006 10:16 (seventeen years ago) link

He played here just last month and I missed him, honestly thinking "Dude's gonna live forever, I'll catch him next time!"

aaahhhhh

hoo got it for steen, vol. 2 (hoosteen), Monday, 25 December 2006 10:28 (seventeen years ago) link

overrated

Stephen Bush (Stephen Bush), Monday, 25 December 2006 10:36 (seventeen years ago) link

Crapola. Yeah, I thought he'd be going for a while yet.

Rest in Peace God of Soul.

Frogm@n henry (Frogm@n henry), Monday, 25 December 2006 10:37 (seventeen years ago) link

overrated

-- Stephen Bush (theonlyguyeve...), December 25th, 2006 10:36 AM.

"edgy"

deej (deej), Monday, 25 December 2006 10:38 (seventeen years ago) link

Just watched The Blues Brothers the other night, and then saw the "Living In America" video at a club. Most JB I'd seen in a year and now this.

PPlains (PPlains), Monday, 25 December 2006 10:45 (seventeen years ago) link

RIP. Too bad I don't have a wife or girlfriend, I would hit her in tribute.

StanM (StanM), Monday, 25 December 2006 10:50 (seventeen years ago) link

overrated

Worst xmas trawl ever.

I will catch fire religious cowards and is all that you Need. (goodbra), Monday, 25 December 2006 10:56 (seventeen years ago) link

Death took way too many people this year :(:(:(:(:(

Elvis Telecom (Chris Barrus), Monday, 25 December 2006 11:00 (seventeen years ago) link

This is mass hysteria.

Dom Passantino (DomPassantino), Monday, 25 December 2006 11:21 (seventeen years ago) link

Oh christ, somehow I thought he was never gonna die.

So did I.

Stephen Bush, fuck you.

Billy Dods (Billy Dods), Monday, 25 December 2006 11:26 (seventeen years ago) link

A humble attempt at a reasonable obit on my blog:

http://www.xanga.com/VivaChe/558539953/rip-james-brown-may-3-1933--dec-25-2006.html

I'm sure there are many many others who can do the man more justice than I can, but I was grieving and wanted to give it a try.

hoo got it for steen, vol. 2 (hoosteen), Monday, 25 December 2006 11:33 (seventeen years ago) link

pretty shitty unexpected news to hear on xmas morning. major bummer.

spastic heritage (spastic heritage), Monday, 25 December 2006 12:24 (seventeen years ago) link

Blimey, I watched The Blues Brothers on telly the other night too. Creepy.

Gonna snort a line and get funky in tribute then.

editio princeps (pato.g27), Monday, 25 December 2006 12:29 (seventeen years ago) link

Sad, sad news. Can't really claim to have known him, but I did meet him and he was (contrary to his reputation) a really lovely, friendly, considerate guy.

frankiemachine (frankiemachine), Monday, 25 December 2006 12:58 (seventeen years ago) link

Oh noes. Let's make Christmas mean something this year. RIP.

Ruud Haarvest (KenL), Monday, 25 December 2006 13:15 (seventeen years ago) link

This is awful news. My James Brown story is probably dull but this is it: when I was 20 or 21 years old, I remember knowing JB only from what I'd hear on oldies radio - the hits, which were great of course but I'd never really gotten into them. They were already part of the background, the fabric. Then one day I was at Music Plus in Norwalk and I thought I'd buy Star Time on cassette; it was 1989 I think & I didn't own a CD player yet. A day or two later I drove into Claremont to see my friend Mark. I put on the tapes and then Mark had to go to work, but his roommate (also named Mark) was really transfixed. Roommate Mark & I hadn't really done all that much hanging out together, but we sat there listening to the really long jams - Papa's, Mother Popcorn - with our jaws on the floor, missing appointments we'd meant to keep just to not have to break the spell, and goin' "OK, why didn't somebody grab me & shake me & tell me JAMES BROWN SIDES ARE THE GREATEST THING IN THE UNIVERSE"? 'Cause on that afternoon it really seemed like there couldn't be any music more transcendent or timeless, and like the music opened onto something much bigger than music for entertainment's sake. I remember about eight minutes' worth of one tune going my in silence and then Mark just saying "wow," not in response to any riff or fill but just the totality of it.

Jaufre Rudel (Jaufre Rudel), Monday, 25 December 2006 13:19 (seventeen years ago) link

i thought 2006 might have yet another nasty surprise in store. :-(

Comrades, meet Tildo Durd (Scourage), Monday, 25 December 2006 13:22 (seventeen years ago) link

RIP. Too bad I don't have a wife or girlfriend, I would hit her in tribute.

BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Seriously though, RIP.

Mr. Snrub (Mr. Snrub), Monday, 25 December 2006 13:31 (seventeen years ago) link

So this really isn't about "L.A. Style" then :(

blunt (blunt), Monday, 25 December 2006 13:40 (seventeen years ago) link

hoosten yr obit is excellent btw, nice work.

Jaufre Rudel (Jaufre Rudel), Monday, 25 December 2006 13:41 (seventeen years ago) link

RIP

latebloomer (clonefeed), Monday, 25 December 2006 13:43 (seventeen years ago) link


http://youtube.com/watch?v=USTilaOqNHM

Dr M (Dr Morbius), Monday, 25 December 2006 14:04 (seventeen years ago) link

http://www.musicobsession.com/Pictures/l/a/lastyle105838.jpg

(I refrain from making any comments other than this is a sad day for his family and friends)

Geir Hongro (geirhong), Monday, 25 December 2006 14:15 (seventeen years ago) link

Is this the biggest rock death since George Harrison in 2001? (and when I say "biggest" I mean in terms of likely coverage and such)

Likely, yes, although Johnny Cash got quite a bit of media coverage too. Obviously, even though personally I think he brought it in the wrong direction, Brown had an enormous impact on today's popular music. Obviously more so than the aformentioned Johnny Cash.

Geir Hongro (geirhong), Monday, 25 December 2006 14:20 (seventeen years ago) link

ugh we were just talking last night, quite morbidly, about the stage we're at now 50+ years after rock n' roll kicked off so of course lots of modern musical icons, entertainment and industry veterans will be passing away these days and i was thinking of Brown then because of his health problems even tho he looked pretty good all things considered and 73 isn't so old.

sede vacante (blueski), Monday, 25 December 2006 14:50 (seventeen years ago) link

was he really only 73? I thought I usta see his birth year as '28.

Dr M (Dr Morbius), Monday, 25 December 2006 14:52 (seventeen years ago) link

Polydor has been so good for so long about parceling out his stuff that I have to imagine they'll open the gates even more now that JB has passed. They always seemed to have him involved in some manner with all the reissues and compilations, so maybe there's stuff he wasn't sure about that they were that will see light now. (This post is entirely conjecture, btw. Well, that and wishful thinking.)

Make a Beck Song #1 (wkwkwk), Thursday, 28 December 2006 00:41 (seventeen years ago) link

Spike Lee is gonna direct the movie. Who plays JB?
-- Roy Kasten


More importantly, who plays Al Sharpton?

blass jaunt (blass), Thursday, 28 December 2006 03:20 (seventeen years ago) link

Eddie Murphy & Anthony Anderson

Dr M (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 28 December 2006 14:20 (seventeen years ago) link

Huh, that's a different Paris '71 show that the one on the record. Same songs & transitions, different versions. It's still great and I would do some pretty terrible things to get it on dvd.

JordanC (JordanC), Thursday, 28 December 2006 15:22 (seventeen years ago) link

James Brown opening up some doors:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=Vn218Tizqgc

"It's too funky in here"

Not For Use as Infant Nog (A-Ron Hubbard), Thursday, 28 December 2006 15:28 (seventeen years ago) link

sweet coffin.

scott seward (121212), Friday, 29 December 2006 08:27 (seventeen years ago) link

http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=06/12/29/1446218
leave it amy goodman,soul sista #1,to rezz this one up.

daniel seward (bunnybrain), Friday, 29 December 2006 16:15 (seventeen years ago) link

if this were an ivan reitman movie,he would pop up and do sum splits.

daniel seward (bunnybrain), Friday, 29 December 2006 16:16 (seventeen years ago) link

CNN carried a large part of the funeral ceremony, which included performances by Bobby Byrd, Marva Whitney, Fred Wesley and others. I watched it at Dulles Airport, waiting to make a connection. Pretty great funeral.

A Radio Picture (Factory Sample Not For Sale), Sunday, 31 December 2006 08:30 (seventeen years ago) link

i dunno bout you but i've been (happily!) surprised at the scale of the national week of james brown. even with ford and saddam going down in the same week, he held his own, media-wise. i guess i'm used to people not getting due deference. my surprise is probably partly from having grown up after his prime (unless you extend his prime to "living in america") and so not fully knowing how much his significance was recognized contemporaneously, or how many people in their 40s, 50s and 60s have a deep abiding love for the man. anyway, it's been gratifying. he's been given a good send-off.

tipsy mothra (tipsy mothra), Sunday, 31 December 2006 09:21 (seventeen years ago) link

i watched the funeral on NY1 today. very stirring -- even michael jackson's speech moved me.

the claudine longet invitational (get bent), Sunday, 31 December 2006 09:30 (seventeen years ago) link

dick gregory's was my hands-down favorite though.

the claudine longet invitational (get bent), Sunday, 31 December 2006 09:30 (seventeen years ago) link

Mothra OTM. I missed Gregory; what'd he say? I've always admired him.

A Radio Picture (Factory Sample Not For Sale), Sunday, 31 December 2006 11:17 (seventeen years ago) link

RIP

sundarsubramanian (SundarS), Sunday, 31 December 2006 15:45 (seventeen years ago) link

steinski is going to do an all-JB tribute mix on beats in space this week, can't wait.

haitch (not haitch) (haitch), Monday, 1 January 2007 14:43 (seventeen years ago) link

will that be podcastable?

stevie (stevie2), Monday, 1 January 2007 16:01 (seventeen years ago) link

Wag of the finger to CNN for cutting away to commercial just as Bootsy was playing a solo

Elvis Telecom (Chris Barrus), Monday, 1 January 2007 21:16 (seventeen years ago) link

WAHT EVIL BASTARDS

BIG HOOS aka the steendriver (hoosteen), Monday, 1 January 2007 21:28 (seventeen years ago) link

JB had 3 diff costumes in 3 days of public viewing! of course the same will probly be true when Buffalo Tom goes.

Dr M (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 2 January 2007 16:10 (seventeen years ago) link

Christ, much too late to add my own personal RIPs here - the Sandbox c

Monty Von Bygone (Monty Von Bygone), Tuesday, 2 January 2007 23:06 (seventeen years ago) link

Here's another clip from the Paris show: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DR_9JAmGUvw

Douglas Wolk (Douglas), Wednesday, 3 January 2007 01:44 (seventeen years ago) link

Listening to "Messing With the Blues," "Motherlode" and "Bobby Byrd's Got Soul" tonight. I want a horn section at my funeral. Pls bring rhythm section too.

A Radio Picture (Factory Sample Not For Sale), Wednesday, 3 January 2007 07:28 (seventeen years ago) link

I also don't wanna die too soon, so pls also let Fred Wesley live to be +/-150.

A Radio Picture (Factory Sample Not For Sale), Wednesday, 3 January 2007 07:31 (seventeen years ago) link

will that be podcastable?

yes!

haitch (not haitch) (haitch), Wednesday, 3 January 2007 10:00 (seventeen years ago) link

James Brown still hasn't been buried yet.

PPlains (PPlains), Wednesday, 10 January 2007 20:46 (seventeen years ago) link

one month passes...
The TAMI Show comes to DVD in May.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000MGUZDY/103-6252111-3442212

Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 13 February 2007 17:40 (seventeen years ago) link

Hmm, wonder if this will include the Beach Boys' set. I saw a print last summer that didn't have it.

went to a lame show on fri (Factory Sample Not For Sale), Tuesday, 13 February 2007 22:46 (seventeen years ago) link

four years pass...

did the jb poll results happen before ilx died?

J-Cova, Monday, 5 December 2011 16:45 (twelve years ago) link

No, I guess the good foot will be got back onto, when it does.

Bela Lugosi's Derrida (MarkG oo la showaddywaddy), Monday, 5 December 2011 16:49 (twelve years ago) link

yeah...this thread reminding me WHEN he died makes me think it might be cool if the results can get rolled out on or around the 5th anniversary of his passing

Mr. Stevensome #dude (Mr. Stevenson #2), Monday, 5 December 2011 16:52 (twelve years ago) link

maybe it'd be a good idea for strongo to start a sandbox thread encouraging more voting since we ended up with kind of an extended window?

Mr. Stevensome #dude (Mr. Stevenson #2), Monday, 5 December 2011 16:53 (twelve years ago) link

Strongo mentioned Lyfe Implosion a couple of days ago, so the poll results may be dependent on more than ILX coming back. Best wishes to strongo on whatever's going down.

William (C), Monday, 5 December 2011 17:29 (twelve years ago) link

is this really mostly unheard stuff?
http://www.dustygroove.com/item.php?id=zv4grqnm9j&ref=index.php
Pinch us, we're dreaming – a lost album from The JBs! The set's a treasure for any fans of the funky James Brown sound of the early 70s – and it features material originally recorded for release as the first full length album by The JBs in 1972 – but never issued at the time! A few cuts here made it onto other records and singles in different versions, but others are completely fresh – and heard here for the first time ever – really helping expand our understanding of the group at this point in their career. Dave Matthews did a lot of the arrangements for the set, and there's a surprising amount of jazz in the mix, too – lots of full horn passages that show Fred Wesley leading the group with a damn hard-swinging sound – mixed in with just the right degree of soul you'd expect, but in ways that are different than some of the later JBs jams. Titles include "Transmograpification", "Use Me", "Everybody Plays The Fool", "Sweet Loneliness", "Watermelon Man", "Secret Love", "You've Got A Friend", and "Seulb". CD also features 4 bonus non-LP singles – "Funky & Some", "JB Shout", "Back Stabbers", and "Alone Again Naturally" – all killer funky 45s

tylerw_sandbox, Tuesday, 6 December 2011 23:19 (twelve years ago) link

hmmm probably... altho I'm aware of a bunch of those covers being issued as People Records 45s. Involvement of Dave Matthews is a little bit of an eyebrow raiser.

Shakey Mo Collier, Tuesday, 6 December 2011 23:28 (twelve years ago) link

Transmograpification - this has definitely been released

Shakey Mo Collier, Tuesday, 6 December 2011 23:29 (twelve years ago) link

yeah, and I'd heard this before, tho I can't remember where now. maybe on the JBs comp?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ygPjj--0A_A

tylerw_sandbox, Tuesday, 6 December 2011 23:29 (twelve years ago) link

Involvement of Dave Matthews is a little bit of an eyebrow raiser.

it's not that dave matthews.

J-Cova, Wednesday, 7 December 2011 16:23 (twelve years ago) link

this dave matthews is the one that gets a shout out on 'love power peace' for leading the additional horns & strings, probably arranged them too.

J-Cova, Wednesday, 7 December 2011 16:26 (twelve years ago) link

yes. would be impressive if five year old dave matthews (so bad and so hated) was doing arrangements for james brown back then.

tylerw_sandbox, Wednesday, 7 December 2011 16:30 (twelve years ago) link

I have the Grodeck Whipperjenny album, I know which Dave Matthews it is

Shakey Mo Collier, Wednesday, 7 December 2011 16:31 (twelve years ago) link

and while he's an interesting dude (and that album is pretty odd) I don't think the stuff he did with JB really played to JB's strengths

Shakey Mo Collier, Wednesday, 7 December 2011 16:31 (twelve years ago) link

ha sorry. any examples of his jb arrangements you don't like?

J-Cova, Wednesday, 7 December 2011 17:47 (twelve years ago) link

well there's this which is not terrible per se, but the acid-fried electric guitar thing is sort of incongruous, it's not what James and the JBs do best.

Shakey Mo Collier, Wednesday, 7 December 2011 17:52 (twelve years ago) link

Man, I remember my dad waking me up on Christmas morning with this news. I had him in the Dead Pool that year.

jaymc, Wednesday, 7 December 2011 18:25 (twelve years ago) link

your ... dad?

Never translate German (schlump), Wednesday, 7 December 2011 18:54 (twelve years ago) link

worst thread i ever started

remy bean in exile, Wednesday, 7 December 2011 18:56 (twelve years ago) link

adults sometimes visit their parents on Christmas iirc

sockness, just sockness (Mr. Stevenson #2), Wednesday, 7 December 2011 19:01 (twelve years ago) link

think he misunderstood and thought you had your dad in the dead pool that year.

tylerw_sandbox, Wednesday, 7 December 2011 19:02 (twelve years ago) link

lotta misunderstandings in this thread.

tylerw_sandbox, Wednesday, 7 December 2011 19:02 (twelve years ago) link


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