Liturgy

(im sure this has been discussed ad nauseam on the main board and normally id just read the old threads but..)

i dont get the hate? i read the Transcendetal Black Metal thing and it just seemed like a wordy philosophical extension of their visual aesthetic (a white black metal album cover, inverted cross/cross as yin/yang). i never really got the feeling that HHH was being condescending, but rather he seemed to acknowledge the necessity of the black metal scene with reverence and admiration

is it a cardinal sin to over-intellectualize metal? is the concept of nondualistic death and rebirth lost on the haters?

i mean, shit like this open letter to HHH is just really embarrassing. idgi

That stuff is embarassing and just plain ridiculous, but its been a long thread throughout the history of black metal for purists to denounce every other approach as "false".

extremely diminishing returns on this record, black metal krew's reaction to hhh is obnoxious (you are part of a music with a shitty history and you would like that... honored and preserved?) but then hhh is totally obnoxious too

all of this feels like it should be extracritical (this is not the word i'm looking for but it sounds like the word i'm looking for) to the music itself, yet it feels embedded. the liturgy record primarily feels self-referential, which would be cool if it felt like there were anything more to it. it's not insubstantial, it just works in such a limited palette and is really dogmatic about that palette, when the palette, in the first place, isn't very interesting? i know a lot of people are still down with this record but i just can't find anything to return to.

the drummer was good but now he is gone.

black metal krew's reaction to hhh is obnoxious (you are part of a music with a shitty history and you would like that... honored and preserved?) but then hhh is totally obnoxious too

id agree with that, i do like the album though.

Well yeah, I'm not 100% on board with everything HHH says but, otoh, I do like the idea of someone thinking about (meaning on an intellectual level) and approaching black metal from a new direction. Because, ffs, as much as those clowns want to hate on "hipster metal", this recent wave of American black metal bands (Liturgy, Krallice, WITTR, among others) has been a welcome change in a genre that had grown stale as fuck.

Liturgy are doing some unique stuff but in what way are Krallice and WITTR a change, apart that journos don't have to travel intercontinental anymore to do a face to face interview? Musically, it's yr standard 50% Burzum/50% Darkthrone blend that's been doing the rounds for fifteen years now. And mind you I like WITTR quite a bit, they do it well.

i don't think it's really fair to put krallice in that category!

the drummer was good but now he is gone.

yeah this worries me

I don't hear any similarities between Krallice and Liturgy. Or WITTR and Liturgy. Or Meshuggah or any other band they get compared to as being a hipster version of.

They sound like This Heat s/t, or Neurosis "Times of Grace", or Rhys Chatham, or a Laddio Bolocko track the title of which escapes me. Aside from a couple of moments, the album is riff-free. There's nothing "rock" about it, it's billowy and dynamic. Greg's drumming, to my ears, seems to be the only noticeable joining element between Liturgy's music and metal-- all artwork, manifestos, lyrics and other extra-musical shit aside.

It totally sucks for Liturgy that Greg's left but I look forward to hearing more from Guardian Alien.

I wasn't trying to say that I think any of those three (Liturgy, WITTR, Krallice) sound like each other, just more that they sort of seem to represent the vanguard of current strains of American black metal. I really disagree with Siegbox though, I don't think these guys are just recycling some formula from old black metal. They most definitely dram inspiration from Burzum and Darkthrone, but I think WITRR add a more American twist on the foresty ambiance while Krallice incorporate a twisted take on Guitar Center wankery that was missing from that older stuff.

Obviously there's almost twenty years between this batch of bands (also including Ash Borer, Skagos, Austere, Woods of Desolation, etc so not all US), production & songwriting tricks have somewhat evolved and they all have their own signature riffs/melodies/interludes, but I must say it's a pretty narrow and beaten path all these bands are walking. Again, not saying it's a bad thing.

between DT/B and this batch of bands