Paris = Jarvis

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Just an observation and at that very little to do with the actual music and quality thereof but has anyone’s been struck by the similarity in the hoopla round these two. Both seem to have generated huge amounts of publicity on shaky track records by which I mean Paris had none and Relaxed Muscle and We Love Life hardly set the world alight. Both seem to be cases of the mainstream media covering “personality” stories as music stories, maybe this has always happened… not sure. The other thing is both albums rather under performed commercially huge amounts of publicity and neither made a huge impression on the record buying public. Compare with the similarly personality defined Jordan & Peter album which has this week trumped them both in going top 20 in the most full on time of year. Not sure if it’s an indictment of a music media hopelessly out of touch or simply that some faces sell papers but not records… uh discuss….

― acrobat (acrobat), Tuesday, 5 December 2006 13:52 (seventeen years ago) link

Charlotte Gainsbourg is the missing link you're looking for.

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Tuesday, 5 December 2006 13:57 (seventeen years ago) link

I think Jarvis is going for a VERY different audience, mind (and We Love Life was pretty well-received by critics, I think), and Peter & Jordan have MUCH more kitsch value than even paris - her record is an attempt to make a bona fide serious meta-textual sophisti-pop record, whereas theirs is tabloid-car-crash-arama pop, which ironically does the meta-textual thing way beyond what Paris ever could.

― Sick Mouthy (sickmouthy), Tuesday, 5 December 2006 13:58 (seventeen years ago) link

I think Jarvis is going for a VERY different audience

you don't say!

i'd forgotten about the charlotte gainsbourg record, i'd like to hear it.

― lexpretend (lexpretend), Tuesday, 5 December 2006 14:00 (seventeen years ago) link

I just don't think that the Paris record is very good in production or execution, whatever its intentions.

The Jarvis record proves - as does the Scritti album - the old edict that some acts need to be in the charts to make sense. Though really the Jarvis album should be listened to in tandem with the Gainsbourg record since lyrically the tracks run in near-complete parallel.

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Tuesday, 5 December 2006 14:00 (seventeen years ago) link

Jarvis is a man who's "fame" is dependant on him having had a couple of top ten singles over 10 years ago. Why aren't Baby D being given free reign to promote all their friends bands in Observer Music Monthly?

― Dom Passantino (DomPassantino), Tuesday, 5 December 2006 14:02 (seventeen years ago) link

They couldn't get time off at the call centre.

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Tuesday, 5 December 2006 14:03 (seventeen years ago) link

did her record get lots of publicity?
x post

yeh but WHO is Jarvis' intended audience? the people who bought common people in '95? i mean his apperance on the front of the nme seemed odd to me as they wouldn't have touched him in 2001. i guess the nearest comparision is morrissey's "comeback" but that was centered around two big singles Jarvis just seemed to be centered around the fact we should be interested in him cos y know he's Jarvis...

― acrobat (acrobat), Tuesday, 5 December 2006 14:03 (seventeen years ago) link

i don't really buy the "massive amounts of publicity" thing really. i don't recall all that much for jarvis apart from that dreadful edition of OMM - the rest i thought was as expected for someone of his...fame? stature? celebrity/credibility intersect?

and yeah, paris got loads of column inches, but she'd have got those for merely existing (and QUITE RIGHT TOO). did she even bother to promote her album? make any appearances on pop tv? even any live gigs? haha paris is THE ANNIE OF 06.

― lexpretend (lexpretend), Tuesday, 5 December 2006 14:06 (seventeen years ago) link

i've ONLY JUST HEARD the scritti politti album, incidentally, and WHY DID NO ONE TELL ME ABOUT IT IT IS BEAUTIFUL.

(or at least 'the boom boom bap' is; i haven't listened properly to the rest because i keep pressing repeat)

― lexpretend (lexpretend), Tuesday, 5 December 2006 14:07 (seventeen years ago) link

This is exactly it, Jarvis' comeback was predisposed on the idea that he could follow exactly in Morrissey's footsteps, with the SHOCKING political single, the credible big money indie label, and the "I HAVE OPINIONS GOOD SIR" interview technique. Jarvis cuts a particularly depressing figures these days, Pulp may have been hotter than the Smiths were at their respective most popular points, but Pulp stopped being a cultural touchstone in 1998, whilst for the past 20 years people have been pointing at daffodils and going "lol morrissey"... it's much worse than when a new Charlatans or KoRn album comes out and gets to 68 or whatever, because at least you get the feeling they understand they don't matter any more, Cocker believes that any moment now he's going to be crowned Pope of Indietown.

― Dom Passantino (DomPassantino), Tuesday, 5 December 2006 14:09 (seventeen years ago) link

I've seen fuck-all publicity for Jarvis. I bouht the album cos Graham Sutton produced it, and I liked it (a lot) because the songs, lyrics, and music were good. Paris hasn't had that much publicity in the scheme of OH MY GOD PARIS HAVING SEX ON TAPE, and I'm assuming P&J's album got most press in gossip and celeb mags. Gainsbourg got lots of broadsheet lead reviews and not much else.

Also, I thought the Scritti album was rubbish.

― Sick Mouthy (sickmouthy), Tuesday, 5 December 2006 14:09 (seventeen years ago) link

How many other artists have managed NME and OMM covers this year?

― Dom Passantino (DomPassantino), Tuesday, 5 December 2006 14:10 (seventeen years ago) link

jarvis had stuff on radio 4, front of nme, all across the monthlies i'm pretty sure i saw him getting a lot bigging up in the q/uncut/mojo axis. also there was the "cunts running the world" thing which seemed very uh unverifiable as a means of gauging his popularity. i was just suprised as the amount of column inches he recived when no one even seemed to notice pulp whimper away four years ago.

― acrobat (acrobat), Tuesday, 5 December 2006 14:12 (seventeen years ago) link

Jarvis is a man who's "fame" is dependant on him having had a couple of top ten singles over 10 years ago. ... and pulling a fake-moon at the Brits.

Jarvis' album basically picks up where "We Love Life" left off. Albums about stalking, killing and death don't have a lot of commercial potential no matter how much advance hype they get. This covers every Pulp album except for two, so the fact that the post-"Different Class" albums didn't sell is more of a case of the hype being far out of proportion with those records' realistic sales potential. Maybe the press will eventually figure out that Pulp never really made jolly music.

I don't see where Paris Hilton fits in there.

xpost OK, I'm gonna cop-out a bit and say that Morrissey is an exception

― No Time Before Time (Barry Barry), Tuesday, 5 December 2006 14:12 (seventeen years ago) link

paris sex tape = jarvis / jacko bum wiggle

― acrobat (acrobat), Tuesday, 5 December 2006 14:13 (seventeen years ago) link

Also, Jarvis had the good sense to get tired of being gossip fodder sometime around 1998, whereas Morrissey still seems to revel in saying batshit things just like he did 20 years ago.

― No Time Before Time (Barry Barry), Tuesday, 5 December 2006 14:14 (seventeen years ago) link

i don't think jarvis faded into obscurity at all, he's definitely retained some sort of presence this decade, even if only "vaguely cool used-to-be-famous indie type who occasionally turns up in magazines".

morrissey had definitely faded into obscurity when he made his comeback! i'd thought he was dead until 2002 or so!

― lexpretend (lexpretend), Tuesday, 5 December 2006 14:14 (seventeen years ago) link

Russell Senior = Nicole Richie

― Dom Passantino (DomPassantino), Tuesday, 5 December 2006 14:15 (seventeen years ago) link

Yes but Alex you are hardly the best barometer of obscurity.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Tuesday, 5 December 2006 14:18 (seventeen years ago) link

people LOVE morrissey thou. all through his wilderness years he was still packing venues worldwide. i don't jarvie has quite the same appeal.

― acrobat (acrobat), Tuesday, 5 December 2006 14:21 (seventeen years ago) link

Albums about stalking, killing and death don't have a lot of commercial potential no matter how much advance hype they get.

all hip hop albums ever to thread

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Tuesday, 5 December 2006 14:22 (seventeen years ago) link

Yeah but black people stalking and killing is either news elsewhere or else comedy exaggeration, whereas white people doing it is either news elsewhere or comedy exaggeration.

― Sick Mouthy (sickmouthy), Tuesday, 5 December 2006 14:23 (seventeen years ago) link

Yeah, throughout the past ten years nightclub nights that just play The Smiths and Moz solo have been doing a roaring, "buy ticket in advance if you wanna get in" trade. Can you imagine even one night of a Pulp nightclub turning profit?

xxp

― Dom Passantino (DomPassantino), Tuesday, 5 December 2006 14:23 (seventeen years ago) link

also, most heavy metal albums to thread

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Tuesday, 5 December 2006 14:25 (seventeen years ago) link

i'm not sure this is very interesting!

please talk about the momentous new ciara album instead.

― lexpretend (lexpretend), Tuesday, 5 December 2006 14:29 (seventeen years ago) link

Ciara used to be a man, now she has an album. End of thread.

― Dom Passantino (DomPassantino), Tuesday, 5 December 2006 14:30 (seventeen years ago) link

I believe a thread for the latter already exists.

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Tuesday, 5 December 2006 14:31 (seventeen years ago) link

many xposts

My point was more about the disconnect between the hype and the music ... if you've made your mark by selling death-obsessed records, then fine. But if everyone remembers you as the geeky dude who was riding in a shopping cart in that kooky mid-90's video, death is a hard sell.

― No Time Before Time (Barry Barry), Tuesday, 5 December 2006 14:32 (seventeen years ago) link

yes, go to that thread and talk about that album! i don't see what's very remarkable about the premise of this thread and it's only going to get bogged down in arguing over minutiae.

― lexpretend (lexpretend), Tuesday, 5 December 2006 14:32 (seventeen years ago) link

Honestly, Lex, I don't know why you hang around threads which clearly don't interest you.

Perhaps I'll go on the Ciara thread and make snarky posts about current trends in improvised music and see how you like it.

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Tuesday, 5 December 2006 14:34 (seventeen years ago) link

what is this 'Ciara used to be a man' thing about?

― sede vacante (blueski), Tuesday, 5 December 2006 14:36 (seventeen years ago) link

Results 1 - 10 of about 608,000 for ciara used to be a man. (0.27 seconds)

― Dom Passantino (DomPassantino), Tuesday, 5 December 2006 14:36 (seventeen years ago) link

getting "bogged down in arguing over minutiae" is the raison de etre of ilx!

― acrobat (acrobat), Tuesday, 5 December 2006 14:37 (seventeen years ago) link

Results 1 - 10 of about 19,000 for ciara "sex change". (0.25 seconds)

― Dom Passantino (DomPassantino), Tuesday, 5 December 2006 14:37 (seventeen years ago) link

I thought Ciara was Tyra's lost sister, hidden away from the public up til now because of fetal alcohol syndrome.

― Leon Czolgosz (Leon), Tuesday, 5 December 2006 14:38 (seventeen years ago) link

Jarvis Cocker's 'The Trip' compilation is quite good anyway.

― sede vacante (blueski), Tuesday, 5 December 2006 14:39 (seventeen years ago) link

this thread is beyond terrible, and that's coming from me

― Sandbox Scourage (Scourage), Tuesday, 5 December 2006 14:40 (seventeen years ago) link

why?

― acrobat (acrobat), Tuesday, 5 December 2006 14:48 (seventeen years ago) link

(louis.jagger@haberdager.hidere) huh... oh

― acrobat (acrobat), Tuesday, 5 December 2006 14:50 (seventeen years ago) link

Not much Paris content in this thread, is there?

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Tuesday, 5 December 2006 14:51 (seventeen years ago) link

Jarvis spends a lot of time in Paris these days (OHOHO MY SIDES)

― sede vacante (blueski), Tuesday, 5 December 2006 14:53 (seventeen years ago) link

How did Jimmy Tarbuck get in there?

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Tuesday, 5 December 2006 14:53 (seventeen years ago) link

Vaseline.

― M Grout (Mark Grout), Tuesday, 5 December 2006 15:10 (seventeen years ago) link

why?

how does it work in any conceivably rational manner?

― Louis Jagger (Scourage), Tuesday, 5 December 2006 15:16 (seventeen years ago) link

are you the Real Louis or Fake Louis?

― acrobat (acrobat), Tuesday, 5 December 2006 15:17 (seventeen years ago) link

YOU KIDS MAKE THIS WORLD LOUSY!

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Tuesday, 5 December 2006 15:20 (seventeen years ago) link

the real louis!

the reason i said that is that within about two posts the paris angle had been killed and everyone was talking about morrissey again FFS, the reason for this being that nobody could add anything to the paris=jarvis comparison. there's absolutely nothing to add!

oh, and 'we love life' was ace. paris hilton has never done nor could ever do anything that could bring me such joy as that album.

(ahem)

― Louis Jagger (Scourage), Tuesday, 5 December 2006 15:32 (seventeen years ago) link

i didn't realise Sutton produced the Jarvis LP. i played Boymerang's 'Urban Space' at 45rpm again yesterday, cyber-calypso-jazz ahoy!

― sede vacante (blueski), Tuesday, 5 December 2006 15:36 (seventeen years ago) link

'we love life' was ace

yes.

― M Grout (Mark Grout), Tuesday, 5 December 2006 15:40 (seventeen years ago) link

Skipping 67 messages at this point... Click here if you want to load them all.

i would've liked the song better had she done it i think (probably just something to do with expecting better of the Scissor Sisters and not expecting something of that nature from Paris)

Agreed, "I Don't Feel Like Dancing" sounded completely like the SS (see what I did there?) had just given up with the first single (the new one isn't any better)

― tissp! (tissp!), Tuesday, 5 December 2006 16:44 (seventeen years ago) link

The trouble with Jarvis is that it just lumbers along ponderously like a Bob Geldof solo album.

But his lyrics work perfectly with Air's music and Gainsbourg's voice on 5:55 so maybe that's the way he needs to go in the future.

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Tuesday, 5 December 2006 16:46 (seventeen years ago) link

Bring back the All Seeing I, I say!

― M Grout (Mark Grout), Tuesday, 5 December 2006 16:49 (seventeen years ago) link

x post
from where i'm sitting don't feel like dancing was the biggest hit of the year (shh gnarls barkley) but was it because scissor sister sang it?

― acrobat (acrobat), Tuesday, 5 December 2006 16:50 (seventeen years ago) link

No, it's because it's catchy, inoffensive and easy on the ear if not necessarily on mine.

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Tuesday, 5 December 2006 16:52 (seventeen years ago) link

I note the "d-d-d-d-dance" two years post-"Graffiti My Soul."

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Tuesday, 5 December 2006 16:52 (seventeen years ago) link

It felt kinda lacklustre to me when compared to the singles from before--they didn't seem to really be enjoying it in the same way.

― tissp! (tissp!), Tuesday, 5 December 2006 16:53 (seventeen years ago) link

i wish i had been here, for this thread.

― temporary enrique (temporary enrique), Tuesday, 5 December 2006 16:53 (seventeen years ago) link

No, it's because the general public liked it. xpost a bit.

― M Grout (Mark Grout), Tuesday, 5 December 2006 16:54 (seventeen years ago) link

They're not really in it to enjoy themselves anymore; they're in it to score an international hit which they didn't manage with anything off their first (and better) album.

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Tuesday, 5 December 2006 16:54 (seventeen years ago) link

'sexy back' and 'maneater' felt bigger than sizzasizzaz. none in the league of 'crazy' though.

― lexpretend (lexpretend), Tuesday, 5 December 2006 16:54 (seventeen years ago) link

Indeed not.

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Tuesday, 5 December 2006 16:55 (seventeen years ago) link

Bring back the All Seeing I seconded, btw.

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Tuesday, 5 December 2006 16:56 (seventeen years ago) link

Only heard Sexy Back once or twice, not much of an opinion, but JT's new one is woeful

All Seeing I comeback thirded

― tissp! (tissp!), Tuesday, 5 December 2006 16:57 (seventeen years ago) link

Actually, full disclosure: JT new one heard all of once

― tissp! (tissp!), Tuesday, 5 December 2006 16:58 (seventeen years ago) link

Bring back the All Seeing I seconded, btw.

Done. Sorta.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 5 December 2006 16:58 (seventeen years ago) link

All Seeing I = not actually much cop without guest vocalists

― sede vacante (blueski), Tuesday, 5 December 2006 17:04 (seventeen years ago) link

But when the whole schtick is guest vocalists, who can blame them?

― tissp! (tissp!), Tuesday, 5 December 2006 17:06 (seventeen years ago) link

Jarvis = guest vocallist. As was Tony Christie, etc.

― M Grout (Mark Grout), Tuesday, 5 December 2006 17:11 (seventeen years ago) link

i don't think maneater and sexyback were quite as big as don't feel like dancing certianly in all round appeal type way. don't think either of them straddled the radio 1 radio 2 divide in quite the same way.

― acrobat (acrobat), Tuesday, 5 December 2006 17:11 (seventeen years ago) link

but it's the diff between 'felt big' and 'were big', isn't it - like the diff between 'beyonce is a huge star&diva' and 'beyonce's latest album has not sold as much as you'd expect'. Manester and SexyBack felt like Event Singles, in a way that other records which had more long-term/wideranging popularity didn't.

― cis boom bah (cis), Tuesday, 5 December 2006 19:48 (seventeen years ago) link

ha, it's the difference between "nelly furtado shows up on red carpet, or maybe doesn't, wearing whatever, and no one notices" and "nelly furtado shows up on red carpet in glamorous dress and gets on the front page of the paper the next day"

― lexpretend (lexpretend), Tuesday, 5 December 2006 20:08 (seventeen years ago) link

ie 'i don't feel like dancing' may have been bigger than 'maneater' but 'maneater' made nelly furtado bigger than the scissor sisters

― lexpretend (lexpretend), Tuesday, 5 December 2006 20:09 (seventeen years ago) link

"I Don't Feel Like Dancing" god ridiculous play on The Hits, The Box, and all your other friendly neighbourhood music video stations, possibly as a legion of young men tried to work out if fancying Ana Matronic makes them gay.

― Dom Passantino (DomPassantino), Tuesday, 5 December 2006 21:04 (seventeen years ago) link

*got ridiculous

― Dom Passantino (DomPassantino), Tuesday, 5 December 2006 21:05 (seventeen years ago) link

Maneater and Sexyback didn't get played on Radio 2, except on Gambaccini's Billboard chart rundown.

They weren't event singles because they didn't engage the whole spectrum of consumers; only a certain section. Of course any act's new single will be an "event" to their fans, but that's not quite the same thing.

Examples of "event singles" would include Do They Know It's Christmas, Roll With It/Country House, Free As A Bird, Candle In The Wind '97 and Patience.

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Wednesday, 6 December 2006 08:29 (seventeen years ago) link

all of those are really, really awful.

― lexpretend (lexpretend), Wednesday, 6 December 2006 08:34 (seventeen years ago) link

I'm not talking about their quality. I'm talking about their being event singles.

I suppose the next Kylie single, whatever that turns out to be, will also qualify.

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Wednesday, 6 December 2006 08:46 (seventeen years ago) link

i have heard 'maneater' and 'sexyback' a grillion mo times than 'don't feel like dancing' or even 'crazy'. 'sexyback' was much more of an event track than any of them.

welcome to the world of objective fact, bitches.

― temporary enrique (temporary enrique), Wednesday, 6 December 2006 09:24 (seventeen years ago) link

wrf is 'patience'?

― temporary enrique (temporary enrique), Wednesday, 6 December 2006 09:26 (seventeen years ago) link

take that

― lexpretend (lexpretend), Wednesday, 6 December 2006 09:27 (seventeen years ago) link

I don't see where Paris Hilton fits in there.

Throw the words around a bit and the answer would be: any dick if it's attached to a camera.

― nathalie (stevienixed), Wednesday, 6 December 2006 09:31 (seventeen years ago) link

The only way in which Timberlake has ever been an event is standing next to Janet Jackson when that happened. That's how he'll be remembered.

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Wednesday, 6 December 2006 09:38 (seventeen years ago) link

it's a fickle world; there's no ay of knowing that. but i think he's as likely to be remembered as the scissor sisters.

― temporary enrique (temporary enrique), Wednesday, 6 December 2006 09:40 (seventeen years ago) link

whether or not jt is remembered is completely irrelevant, isn't this a discussion which has been had a gazillion times?

― lexpretend (lexpretend), Wednesday, 6 December 2006 09:42 (seventeen years ago) link

it's so irrevelevant that i've already forgotten who he is.

― temporary enrique (temporary enrique), Wednesday, 6 December 2006 09:44 (seventeen years ago) link

Yes, much like you masturbating over Paris/Ciara/Beyonce/Cassie/your name here ad infinitum (xpost).

I ask you for the second time: why do you hang around threads which you don't like?

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Wednesday, 6 December 2006 09:46 (seventeen years ago) link

http://www.goenglish.com/ThePotCallingTheKettleBlack.asp

― temporary enrique (temporary enrique), Wednesday, 6 December 2006 09:49 (seventeen years ago) link

i think the talk of event singles or indeed event albums sort of leads back on topic. i mean paris and jarvis were both presented as events yet neither lived up to it really. stars are blind did go top 5 though admitedly the follow up peaked 50 places lower. anyway it seems like both were hoped to be events for different demographics. erm cultureshowpop or maybe G2pop vs londonlitepop...

― acrobat (acrobat), Wednesday, 6 December 2006 12:18 (seventeen years ago) link

jarvis really has not been all that hyped.

― temporary enrique (temporary enrique), Wednesday, 6 December 2006 12:19 (seventeen years ago) link

Well it just shows what a pretty pass things are in when 3000 sales gets you into the top five.

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Wednesday, 6 December 2006 12:20 (seventeen years ago) link

grammar: "3000 sales GET you into the top five"

OMM did a pretty miserable job of hyping Cocker in the last-but-one issue.

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Wednesday, 6 December 2006 12:21 (seventeen years ago) link

ok been over this it felt hyped to me. nme cover, OMM, culture show, lots on radio4 he had his own series then a bunch of stuff on other shows and i kept seeing features on him also big posters in front of record stores suggested it was expected to do something more than it did.

― acrobat (acrobat), Wednesday, 6 December 2006 12:22 (seventeen years ago) link

However, being on Rough Trade, it was unlikely to do more than it did, commercially.

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Wednesday, 6 December 2006 12:26 (seventeen years ago) link

dunno the libertines and the strokes both got no 1s whilst on rough trade...

― acrobat (acrobat), Wednesday, 6 December 2006 12:30 (seventeen years ago) link

re hype -- paris doesn't get the same kind of hype, she just gets 'items', gossipy things. jarvis gets interviews and whatnot.

― temporary enrique (temporary enrique), Wednesday, 6 December 2006 12:47 (seventeen years ago) link

Which is more useful?

― Dom Passantino (DomPassantino), Wednesday, 6 December 2006 12:48 (seventeen years ago) link

personally, i think jarvis is a more interesting public figure.

― temporary enrique (temporary enrique), Wednesday, 6 December 2006 12:51 (seventeen years ago) link

Because of Jarvis or because of Paris?

― Dom Passantino (DomPassantino), Wednesday, 6 December 2006 13:02 (seventeen years ago) link

well i missed the radio shows on art schools but that's a subject that interests me and obviously el jarv belongs to that lineage, even if i'm not so interested in his music now (never was particularly, thnking about it -- i have maybe two pulp 45s). could paris say something interesting about anything? yet to see evidence of this, and i'll take my two pulp records over her stuff. the missus likes them both, but i reckon she'd opt for jarvis in the long-run. she sent me the richard x thing w. jarv, but i didn't d/l (full disclosure).

― temporary enrique (temporary enrique), Wednesday, 6 December 2006 13:06 (seventeen years ago) link

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