Ned Raggett reviewing "Gish (deluxe edition)" in P4k today

http://www.pitchforkmedia.com/reviews/albums/16059-gish-deluxe-edition-siamese-dream-deluxe-edition/

Hahah and here I was debating whether or not to start a Pitchfork thread here or something. Anyway, yes, my debut piece for the site.

:D

(oh yeah Siamese Dream too xp)

whoa thats a grotesque emoticon

great work btw!!!

are you going to be writing for p4k often ned or was this a one-off?

what does "remain remarkable thoughout unequal listens" mean

(congrats and well done, also)

thoughout? That should be 'though' -- what a weird glitch!

I thought that might be a typo

And to answer big popppa hoy back there: there will be more soon.

the Menswe@r critical rehabilitation begins HERE

congratulations, ned. and good review (even tho i don't like the smashing pumpkins).

Can't believe Raggett has sold out. Next he'll be telling us why Radiohead is so very important.

As If We Didn't Know!

Man I think I saw SP 2 or 3 times on that 94 tour/BDO lineup. They were good, once.

Great review Ned, and unlike anything they've released in the past decade, I can't wait to get ahold of these.

Great review, very even-handed assessment of Gish

lol I am now thinking about getting both of those reissues even though I just recently grabbed both original albums out of used bins

whatever h1pinion poster said "ILX hated pitchfork until they all started writing for it" OTM

ppl in "liking articles written by writers they like" shocker

'ilx hated pitchfork until it became something completely different'

pitchfork is still 'bad' in like the 'bad for humanity' sense but a lot of good writers with good taste happen to write there now

Well, I know we all like The Guardian now...

Thanks again all! It was remarkably easy to write but took a little refining in drafts.

It was a good read thoughout.

when you compared Soma to The Beautiful Ones, my mind exploded a little...

whatever h1pinion poster said "ILX people are the worst" OTM

it was an ILX poster no doubt

I don't really hear the Soma/Beautiful Ones comparison. Other than, like, falsetto.

Corgan's an admitted Prince freak so that had to have fed into my feeling on the song -- which I've had for a bit (see my twelve-years-past take on the same album). But there's also other elements in my head to compare: huge solo in the second half of the song, the obsessive one-on-one lyrical focus, a swing from soft, almost whispered singing to extreme screaming/howling. There are differences as well but try playing them back to back sometime.

they both seem to love the color purple

^yeah um nevermind about that

Ned can you reveal to us now the secrets of how the numerical ratings are assigned?

Do you consult with Tibetan monks or just roll 2d10?

Dart tossing.

In brief: I was asked for ratings, I pondered a bit and supplied them, and we eventually settled on a number. I actually didn't suggest the 10.0! I have no problem at all with that rating on a personal level but initially felt that might be a bit much and went with something in the low 9s as a guess, but the 10 was then suggested. I admit I don't really like rating records, whether for the AMG, Pitchfork or elsewhere, but as it's up to the publication/resource in question to go with such things or not I work with them as I do.

AY THE HOMIE BIG RAGGETT

i was kinda bummed when i realized that ilx wasn't gonna get back up before ned's debut

I have to say I'm completely tickled by the fact that Everett True -- who published me for a while years back and who's a good egg in my book -- has (very understandably!) reacted to news of the reissues with less than complimentary thoughts. I can't imagine who in the world would have thought he'd be great to send promos to, his hatred for the Pumpkins is unparalleled even by skot s. and aero's standards:

http://www.collapseboard.com/features/columns/there-are-lines-in-the-sand-and-there-are-lines-in-the-sand-and-then-theres-the-smashing-pumpkins/

http://www.collapseboard.com/reviews/albums-reviews/reviewed-in-pictures-smashing-pumpkins-gish-deluxe-edition/

I just shot him a transcription of the demolition of them live he refers to in the first link that I found in my collection of Melody Makers from the time so it may pop up soon as well.

I listened to Siamese Dream the other day and man those guitars are ridiculous. Guitars for days!

When the guitars drop in the beginning of Cherub Rock it's like getting shot out of a canon

the distorted guitars i mean

Corgan heaps a slew of praise on Butch Vig in the liner notes for the sound of the record, rightfully so. In retrospect I really should have mentioned him in my review!

nevermind to dirty to siamese dream.. not bad

reading the reviews made me want to hear the records again. nice work

the guitar sound is amazing like a wave

just as well billy didn't try to play drums tho

moonbop otm; also in there --> L7's Bricks Are Heavy

Everett True seems like he may be even more obnoxious to be around than Billy Corgan.

Dunno, that's pretty much what I always thought of the SmashPumps.

don't understand accusations like this

He doesn’t have a trace of originality, of poetry, of soul inside of him.

The only thing that really annoys me more than self-absorbed Corgan interviews are people who froth at the mouth with their hatred for him.

despite all their rage
they're still just -

Its just like, Corgan is such an easy target and pretty deserving of ignoring him completely outside the context of his pre-2000 music, why are you getting so worked up over him in 2011?

I just spent 20 seconds trying to open the Gish deluxe edition

stupid slippery box oh that didn't come out right

Starla was 11 minutes to begin with, though?

can I also say that the bazillion extra pictures included in this thing confirm that the hat was a really poor decision, Billy

really want this shirt: http://www.backstage-fashion.com/Billy_Corgan_001.jpg

lol I spend so much time just listening to "Rhinoceros" and "Bury Me" that I forget I love the rest of this album too

checking out the tracklisting on Spotify;

"Glynis" left in the dust :(

Huh, that didn't even end up on the bonus disc with the greatest hits, did it. That and "Set the Ray to Jerry" are probably their two best obscure 'quiet' songs, for sure.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EX-hXJ3_h5w

saul wright; I'm gonna track down that and "Jesus Loves His Babies" and do an extended-edition PI for my own private consumption

Haha, I was typing "smashing pumpkins glynis" into Google and the autocomplete was listing "smashing pumpkins glycerine" before I finished typing. Apparently Bush confusion runs rampant.

I have never been a Smashing Pumpkins fan, but they are so dorky that I could never fathom the frothing at the mouth rage ET and his ilk had for them.

Starla was 11 minutes to begin with, though?

yep. for some reason i forgot that.

anyway something about the new version is awesome, maybe i was in a state.

they are so dorky that I could never fathom the frothing at the mouth rage ET and his ilk had for them.

yeah, this. also I feel like you should get a free pass from being called self-centered and obsessed with your personal problems and "whiny" (which are all cheap shots to begin with) if you were abused as a child.. http://billycorgan.livejournal.com/2005/07/01/

ned writes his first p4k review, and -- not three days later -- p4k's sister-site, altered zones, is abruptly cancelled.

coincidence?

yeah, this. also I feel like you should get a free pass from being called self-centered and obsessed with your personal problems and "whiny" (which are all cheap shots to begin with) if you were abused as a child

some people make good art out of these experiences, and some people make bad art. Corgan is mostly in the latter camp.

which is not to say I don't appreciate the first two albums - I do - but I'm not gonna forgive all the crap that followed out of sympathy for li'l Billy.

nah, he's in the former.

Adore doesn't really hold up for me these days (or at least it didn't the last time I went back to it) but the first 3 are all very, very good

and really calling him "whiny" is a pretty accurate description of the timbre and texture of his voice, no matter what he's singing about. when I revisited this period of the Pumpkins' stuff recently, the biggest problem I had with the material were with his incredibly thin and limited vocal range.

the less pejorative description would be "weedy"

lol I meant "reedy"

can't really think of any other singer who sounds so much like they equate asshole-clenching-uptightness with emoting

... how about every singer whose band even came close to being described as "grunge"

I mean, no one is going to really defend Billy Corgan's voice in terms of strength or pleasant on the ear, but I saw them during the Adore tour and he's kind of another animal live; his voice WORKS in a live setting in a way I don't think they ever managed to capture on record.

I think Billy's voice is legitimately pleasant on some of those early quiet songs ("Obscured," "Rhinoceros," etc)

One of the problems with having a super-idiosyncratic voice like his is how polarizing it is; I also think it works really, really well on those quieter songs but I can also see how it could easily throw someone out of the music's mood.

oh I definitely prefer his voice on the quieter stuff, it's when he starts trying to raise the volume/tension in his voice that problems set in.

totally disagree about the live thing, one of the worst, most contemptible bands I have ever seen.

... how about every singer whose band even came close to being described as "grunge"

Cobain's voice is amazing. and I am hardly a Soundgarden fan but Cornell's vocal range is remarkably wide and is one of the things that made them stand out to begin with.

I don't disagree with either of those statements, but both of them (ESPECIALLY Cornell) are as guilty of "emoting thru constipation" as Corgan

and really calling him "whiny" is a pretty accurate description of the timbre and texture of his voice, no matter what he's singing about. when I revisited this period of the Pumpkins' stuff recently, the biggest problem I had with the material were with his incredibly thin and limited vocal range

Yep. I do need to relisten to the first two albums though.

Corgan's the only one of those three who sings almost entirely through his nose, tho. It worked when Butch Vig camouflaged it in layers of MBV swirl on the first two records. It's no coincidence that the quality of their records fell off big time after Corgan decided his lyrics needed to be heard and started mixing his voice way up front. Sublimated, his angst and his melodrama was easy enough to ignore.

oh wow, the old "hello kitty kat" chorus is totally awful

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DYfLuZefGDQ

lol I meant "reedy"

right the first time

And as a final ET bonus:

http://www.collapseboard.com/reviews/albums-reviews/reviewed-in-words-smashing-pumpkins-siamese-dream-deluxe-edition/

...and as noted, I found and transcribed the review for him.

I had forgotten how MONSTROUS the drums on Gish are

Gish really is the only time you hear the band as an actual band rather than the Billy Corgan Experience, however supplemented. Having Butch Vig record that was very fortunate (if you watch the live DVD, the album captures not only the live show but nearly all the arrangements to the note).

Ned's second piece on Pitchfork about This Mortal Coil was excellent, probably has been discussed elsewhere...been away for awhile

Talked about it a bit on the Pitchfork thread.

thanks for the direction

love that you are on Pitchfork now Ned, their audience is in for a treat

based on your first two pieces and the ILM history

ect all...

Hey I have no idea what will happen, that's part of what makes it fun!

Ned, I read your review of Bongwater - Power of Pussy today -- it was appended to the album in Spotify. Good stuff.

Smashing Pumpkins frontman Billy Corgan is launching an unlikely new venture - he's opening a tea house in his native Illinois.

The rocker spent his Thursday taste-testing different brews for his Chicago cafe and he can't wait to officially open the shop.

In a Twitter.com post, he writes, "had my first meeting today to prepare for opening a tea house on the north shore here in the Chicago area. lots of teas to try!"

"Tea house" may also be used synonymously (or confused) with "tea room", a gay slang term referring to a venue where public sex occurs.

The Tea House on the North Shore: A Memoir by Billy Corgan.

Hahah thanks Mordy (looking back a few days) -- had almost forgotten I'd done that!

Marlon Brando playing Billy Corgan. Could happen. Even after Brando's dead.

Teagarden by Baldydope

tea silaviver

https://www.facebook.com/eman.tea