ou're seriously telling me you never meet people any more who say they hate "all rap"
More common for me to meet people who like "all music except country."
― Lord Sotosyn, Thursday, 15 December 2011 16:50 (twelve years ago) link
you're seriously telling me you never meet people any more who say they hate "all rap" or glorify rock music because "it's more real" or whatever? this is diminishing, which is what i was saying upthread, but it hasn't gone away.
I literally cannot remember the last time anyone said this kind of thing to me. maybe in the 90s in lol college. certainly none of the kids I know talk this way.
― aesthetic partisan (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 15 December 2011 16:51 (twelve years ago) link
The 'i like everything except rap/metal/country/reggae/rave shite/opera/punk/modern rnb that isnt like the yardbirds' brigade have not gone away. They exist and sadly get younger every year.
― Minga Frump (Jimmy Riddle), Thursday, 15 December 2011 16:52 (twelve years ago) link
modern rnb that isnt like the yardbirds
lol
― aesthetic partisan (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 15 December 2011 16:52 (twelve years ago) link
the late 90s was really bad in the uk for "real music" type shite. dont forget 'classic songwriting' either. *shudders*
― Minga Frump (Jimmy Riddle), Thursday, 15 December 2011 16:53 (twelve years ago) link
shakey you have no idea how many people still say " proper rnb is like 60s bands like the yardbirds or the who and not this modern shite"
― Minga Frump (Jimmy Riddle), Thursday, 15 December 2011 16:54 (twelve years ago) link
Ha, I used to spout that kind of nonsense once upon a time, back in the mists of time. And then I grew up, phew, that was easy.
― Thomosexual II (Fotherington Thomas), Thursday, 15 December 2011 16:55 (twelve years ago) link
okay no one says "proper RnB sounds like The Who", at least not in the US
― OH NOES, Thursday, 15 December 2011 16:55 (twelve years ago) link
and funnily enough Dan I'm not in the US!
― Minga Frump (Jimmy Riddle), Thursday, 15 December 2011 16:56 (twelve years ago) link
(Though TBH I'd have been more likely to say that R&B was stuff like The Supremes and the Ronettes and not that modern stuff they play on the radio. It's like talking to an alien, sometimes, the stuff I believed when I was younger.)
― Thomosexual II (Fotherington Thomas), Thursday, 15 December 2011 16:56 (twelve years ago) link
They exist and sadly get younger every year.
plural of anecdote is not data etc. but no one in the under 25-brigade that I know (which is maybe a dozen people or so) def don't espouse these attitudes. music is just EVERYWHERE to them, and as such they may have favorite artists but they don't have super-strong genre opinions - firm aesthetic divisions don't exist for them, there's just too much music around for them to even bother taking the time to establish personal aesthetic politics. I can play them whatever and they just think "eh yeah that's allright." they're more blase than anything else.
xp
― aesthetic partisan (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 15 December 2011 16:56 (twelve years ago) link
Maybe you guys have a boogie rock equivalent?
xps
― Minga Frump (Jimmy Riddle), Thursday, 15 December 2011 16:57 (twelve years ago) link
this literally does not happen in the US. I can count on one hand the number of people I know who believe this and they are both 45+ old hipster geezers that are not representative of anything, they are total oddballs and they know it.
― aesthetic partisan (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 15 December 2011 16:58 (twelve years ago) link
also yeah lol at calling the Who or the Yardbirds rnb gtfo
Though TBH I'd have been more likely to say that R&B was stuff like The Supremes and the Ronettes and not that modern stuff they play on the radio.
it's more likely/common that people would say they like that "classic" r&b stuff like Adele and not that weirdass obscure-o shit like the Dream!
― aesthetic partisan (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 15 December 2011 16:59 (twelve years ago) link
but no one in the under 25-brigade that I know (which is maybe a dozen people or so) def don't espouses these attitudes.
urgh double negatives. fixed.
― aesthetic partisan (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 15 December 2011 17:00 (twelve years ago) link
i think it's easy to get a warped sense of perspective, when speaking to relatively open-minded people on ILM, that the majority of people are very much open to pop, hip-hop, metal, dance and modern r'n'b that isn't the Yardbirds - but I think really you don't need to go too far outside the confines of this board to meet plenty of people who talk about "proper rock" and things. Just look at that Guardian Comments section for a start.
― dog latin, but cool (dog latin), Thursday, 15 December 2011 17:01 (twelve years ago) link
that guardian comments section is horrible , dog latin. PilkingtonsMagpie seems a not very nice guy for a start.
The comments ive read the past few days in that section have been race obsessed. Is it always like that? (yeah yeah welcome to the internet)
― Minga Frump (Jimmy Riddle), Thursday, 15 December 2011 17:05 (twelve years ago) link
internet comments sections? really?
I'm talking about actual living breathing people I know and see on a regular basis, who don't know anything about ILM and tend not to have strong opinions about music. which is the vast majority of the music-listening and purchasing public.
― aesthetic partisan (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 15 December 2011 17:05 (twelve years ago) link
i dont like katy b but i approve of its placing just to annoy these people tbh
― Minga Frump (Jimmy Riddle), Thursday, 15 December 2011 17:06 (twelve years ago) link
fwiw one of my fave R&B albums of 2011 sometimes kinda sounds like '60s Who and Yardbirds:
http://thehurstreview.files.wordpress.com/2011/05/stonerollin.jpg
― some dude (Mr. Stevenson #2), Thursday, 15 December 2011 17:07 (twelve years ago) link
^^^ I was gonna say
― Lord Sotosyn, Thursday, 15 December 2011 17:07 (twelve years ago) link
had no idea he even had a new album out - interested!
― aesthetic partisan (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 15 December 2011 17:08 (twelve years ago) link
plural of anecdote is not data etc. but no one in the under 25-brigade that I know (which is maybe a dozen people or so) def don't espouse these attitudes. music is just EVERYWHERE to them, and as such they may have favorite artists but they don't have super-strong genre opinions - firm aesthetic divisions don't exist for them, there's just too much music around for them to even bother taking the time to establish personal aesthetic politics. I can play them whatever and they just think "eh yeah that's allright." they're more blase than anything else.xp― aesthetic partisan (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 15 December 2011 16:56 (4 minutes ago) Bookmark Permalink
― aesthetic partisan (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 15 December 2011 16:56 (4 minutes ago) Bookmark Permalink
although I do agree with this, it's only really something that started happening 2000-onwards and has much more recently becoming the norm in my experience. Before electro-revivalism, before mash-ups and other cross-genre/cross-aesthetic movements the tribal signifiers were much more clear cut. Yeah you had the Prodigy, but they kind of jumped from "rave music that ravers like" to "rave music that indie kids like" over the course of a year. Indie kids dabbled with dance, but they had a particular plot mapped out for them that included Orbital, Chems, Prodge and Big Beat but didn't really include going to clubs and watching DJs. If you were a rock kid listening to dance, it had to have that auteurist "band" context (cue lots of terrible attempts to fuse metal guitars with drum'n'bass).
― dog latin, but cool (dog latin), Thursday, 15 December 2011 17:10 (twelve years ago) link
internet comments sections? really?I'm talking about actual living breathing people I know and see on a regular basis, who don't know anything about ILM and tend not to have strong opinions about music. which is the vast majority of the music-listening and purchasing public.xp― aesthetic partisan (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 15 December 2011 17:05 (5 minutes ago) Bookmark Permalink
― aesthetic partisan (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 15 December 2011 17:05 (5 minutes ago) Bookmark Permalink
you must live a very privileged life if this is the case. But again, I agree that rabid genre affiliation is on the decline.
― dog latin, but cool (dog latin), Thursday, 15 December 2011 17:12 (twelve years ago) link
I only like proper r'n'b like Johnny Otis and not any of that the Who shite tbh.
― los krampusinos! (pomplamau5), Thursday, 15 December 2011 17:13 (twelve years ago) link
I sadly only like music that sounds like the Yardbirds
― he said "grody" (henrietta lacks), Thursday, 15 December 2011 17:16 (twelve years ago) link
rhythm'n'birds
― dog latin, but cool (dog latin), Thursday, 15 December 2011 17:19 (twelve years ago) link
It would be nice if we are moving towards a genre-less utopia in which people listen to a wide variety of music and don't have narrow tastes. I'm not convinced this has totally happened though. It's especially annoying when people don't seem to recognize their own genre blinders. I think most of us have a particular type of music which is like comfort food for us, we almost effortlessly enjoy it - maybe it's the music we grew up with. It's easier for us to enjoy and recognize quality in new music of that type. When we dismiss music that's not of that type, we have to be very careful that we're judging it fairly and not just speaking from our prejudices.
― o. nate, Thursday, 15 December 2011 17:19 (twelve years ago) link
good words to remember as we go into our own EoY
― he said "grody" (henrietta lacks), Thursday, 15 December 2011 17:20 (twelve years ago) link
i think people consciously and deliberately rejecting whole genres is on the decline but surely the flipside of that, for better or worse, is a rise in tokenism or dilettantism, or people who only accept a type of music in very narrow or conservative terms. plus, i'm not sure if a generation of teenagers getting passionate about rap or dance through Mac Miller or Skrillex is any kind of net win for anybody.
― some dude (Mr. Stevenson #2), Thursday, 15 December 2011 17:21 (twelve years ago) link
i'm not sure if a generation of teenagers getting passionate about punk through Nirvana is any kind of net win for anybody.
― he said "grody" (henrietta lacks), Thursday, 15 December 2011 17:23 (twelve years ago) link
It would be nice if we are moving towards a genre-less utopia in which people listen to a wide variety of music and don't have narrow tastes.
I think we have definitely been moving in that direction in the last decade. dunno if I agree that it's inherently preferable (genre partisans produced great music, rules can be useful, etc.) but it is what it is.
― aesthetic partisan (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 15 December 2011 17:23 (twelve years ago) link
it wasn't :(
― degas-dirty monet (lex pretend), Thursday, 15 December 2011 17:23 (twelve years ago) link
I think the idea of a genre-less utopia is worth interrogating. what would be so great about it?
― aesthetic partisan (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 15 December 2011 17:24 (twelve years ago) link
I wouldn't mind if a generation of teenagers got passionate about the Who through Raphael Saadiq.
― Lord Sotosyn, Thursday, 15 December 2011 17:24 (twelve years ago) link
I got passionate about twee Scottish indiepop through Nirvana, is that any better? (Don't answer this, lex.)
― Illia Rump (emil.y), Thursday, 15 December 2011 17:25 (twelve years ago) link
like, why is it preferable to have everybody enjoying everything
― aesthetic partisan (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 15 December 2011 17:25 (twelve years ago) link
i'm not really one to beat anyone over the head with the canon but if your go-to parallel for Skrillex and Mac Miller is Nirvana i can't even
― some dude (Mr. Stevenson #2), Thursday, 15 December 2011 17:26 (twelve years ago) link
Nirvana was way better than Skrillex tho
― OH NOES, Thursday, 15 December 2011 17:26 (twelve years ago) link
lol xpost
people who only accept a type of music in very narrow or conservative terms
yeah this is what i was getting at earlier - it's like, maybe even narrower than the word "aesthetic" implies, it seems like it's more about social class. not in terms of actual specifically economic class but class in the koganesque sense - the kind of person we perceive ourselves to be. more & more i see music dismissed with the kind of formulation, "but that's music for [x]", where x = "chavs" or "hipsters" or "mondeo drivers" or "boring office workers" or whatever
― degas-dirty monet (lex pretend), Thursday, 15 December 2011 17:26 (twelve years ago) link
(Would love to see a thread about "the oddest pathway by which you discovered a genre/aesthetic of music you now love" but that might have to wait for real ILM to return)
― Thomosexual II (Fotherington Thomas), Thursday, 15 December 2011 17:27 (twelve years ago) link
lol all roads lead from the Fall
― he said "grody" (henrietta lacks), Thursday, 15 December 2011 17:27 (twelve years ago) link
more & more i see music dismissed with the kind of formulation, "but that's music for [x]", where x = "chavs" or "hipsters" or "mondeo drivers" or "boring office workers" or whatever
lol you do this all the fucking time
― aesthetic partisan (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 15 December 2011 17:28 (twelve years ago) link
i think people consciously and deliberately rejecting whole genres is on the decline but surely the flipside of that, for better or worse, is a rise in tokenism or dilettantism, or people who only accept a type of music in very narrow or conservative terms. plus, i'm not sure if a generation of teenagers getting passionate about rap or dance through Mac Miller or Skrillex is any kind of net win for anybody.― some dude (Mr. Stevenson #2), Thursday, 15 December 2011 17:21 (6 minutes ago) Bookmark Permalink
― some dude (Mr. Stevenson #2), Thursday, 15 December 2011 17:21 (6 minutes ago) Bookmark Permalink
true, true. maybe we are entering a new age of "genre-hopping" where bands will do a token track in a given style all through an album. But it doesn't have to. At least Skrillex isn't doing this - like it or not, he has a trademark sound that isn't really derivative of anything else (the nu-metal/dubstep/trance comparisons are overplayed). I like to think of Katy B as a positive example - she's equally credible to the dance underground as she is to the pop mainstream and she achieves this not by awkwardly cutting and shutting dubstep with pop - it's a very consistent, fluid, natural mix.
― dog latin, but cool (dog latin), Thursday, 15 December 2011 17:29 (twelve years ago) link
Katy B the innovator in brastep
― he said "grody" (henrietta lacks), Thursday, 15 December 2011 17:30 (twelve years ago) link
maybe we are entering a new age of "genre-hopping" where bands will do a token track in a given style all through an album
you mean like the Beatles or Primal Scream
― aesthetic partisan (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 15 December 2011 17:31 (twelve years ago) link
to expand on this a little - one of the things I like about (the increasingly rare) genre partisans is that their dedication often results in a treasure trove of a music collection, highly specialized knowledge, a more finely nuanced grasp of the genre, etc. When I come across someone whose got some huge country or jazz collection or whatever, I am deeply grateful that these people don't have broad collections, that they opted to specialize. Cuz y'know who else would take the time to digitize Waylon Jennings' entire (and largely out of print) discography.
― aesthetic partisan (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 15 December 2011 17:37 (twelve years ago) link
Drowned In Sound - Albums 2011http://drownedinsound.com/in_depth/4144253-drowned-in-sounds-albums-of-the-year--5-1
20: Destroyer Kaputt19: The Field Looping State Of Mind18: Aidan Moffat & Bill Wells Everything’s Getting Older17: Wild Beasts Smother16: A Winged Victory For The Sullen A Winged Victory For The Sullen15: EMA Past Life Martyred Saints14: Low C’mon13: Tom Waits Bad as Me12: Bon Iver Bon Iver11: St. Vincent Strange Mercy10: Metronomy The English Rivera9: Beirut The Rip Tide8: Bright Eyes The People’s Key7: Nils Frahm Felt6: When Saints Go Machine Konkylie5: Kate Bush - 50 Words for Snow4: SBTRKT - SBTRKT3: PJ Harvey - Let England Shake2: Tim Hecker - Ravedeath, 19721: The Antlers - Burst Apart
― los krampusinos! (pomplamau5), Thursday, 15 December 2011 17:39 (twelve years ago) link