i'm leaving out his examples. "people assume". not "most people assume". not "a lot of people assume". just "people". meaning...everybody? does everyone assume this?
― scott seward (121212), Tuesday, 2 January 2007 00:05 (seventeen years ago) link
― Make a Beck Song #1 (wkwkwk), Tuesday, 2 January 2007 00:06 (seventeen years ago) link
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 2 January 2007 00:06 (seventeen years ago) link
I'm assuming he means mentally unstable behavior in rock or pop or whatever. i would say there were plenty of cultural penalties depending on the behaviour. just being called "crazy" by people you don't know is some sort of penalty.
― scott seward (121212), Tuesday, 2 January 2007 00:08 (seventeen years ago) link
― Make a Beck Song #1 (wkwkwk), Tuesday, 2 January 2007 00:10 (seventeen years ago) link
well, yeah. I think in context this is fine; the Who ref made above works the same way--he's pretty clearly talking about in pop music, rather than in the world.
― Make a Beck Song #1 (wkwkwk), Tuesday, 2 January 2007 00:11 (seventeen years ago) link
the ACTUAL disconnect is perceived as "creativity"? how does that work? and why "mildly" insane? wouldn't people expect them to be really really really insane?
― scott seward (121212), Tuesday, 2 January 2007 00:13 (seventeen years ago) link
longwinded way of saying -- the article's main problem is that it reads like a template, and a very pedestrian one at that.
― Eisbär (Eisbär), Tuesday, 2 January 2007 00:16 (seventeen years ago) link
"Gilmour replaced Barrett in Pink Floyd but still tried to produce some of Syd’s ill-fated solo work in 1970"
"tried" "ill-fated"
― scott seward (121212), Tuesday, 2 January 2007 00:17 (seventeen years ago) link
Ultimately, it was not a detachment from reality that made them geniuses; detachment made them unproductive and vulnerable. Contrary to popular mythology, you don’t make good records when you’re crazy. You make them when you’re not.
Is he addressing more of a myth about Syd Barrett or Brian Wilson fans - that some romanticize mental illness as the context in which this great music was created - than the reality? The crazy/not crazy and crazy=not good/not crazy = good binaries are very simplistic and banal.
― Tim Ellison is number one proponent of Beatle!!!Mania!!! on nu-ILX (tim ellison), Tuesday, 2 January 2007 00:20 (seventeen years ago) link
the first paragraph is a trainwreck of logical fallacy and unsupported assertion.
conflating Ozzy (socially dysfunctional person w/ennablers) and Daniel Johnston (diagnosed mentally ill person) doesn't hold up if you think about it for a minute or two.
I'd say Courtney Love has surely paid a cultural price for mentally unstable behavior.
his [Syd Barrett]disaffected, hyper-British vocal delivery has influenced singers who’ve never even heard his records
how does this work? sounds nice, but it doesn't make sense.
And I agree with Scott, K's characterization of Barrett's downward spiral is offensive. The implication is that he just spaced out. While there is disagreement among those who knew him about the nature and cause of Syd's condition, anyone who's known a schizophrenic or deeply disturbed person will recognize Syd.
and if the main thing he's remember for is being crazy, if he's been in effect dead for 35 years how could he be so influential?
and the Landy stuff is just too simplistic and glib, a reductive take on a complex situation. Landy's methods were creepy and controlling -- he deserved to lose his license -- but I bet even Brian Wilson would acknowledge that some good came from it. he got off drugs and started on the path to the better place he's in now.
― the damnation of mark coleman (lovebug ), Tuesday, 2 January 2007 01:10 (seventeen years ago) link
― the damnation of mark coleman (lovebug ), Tuesday, 2 January 2007 01:18 (seventeen years ago) link
― Tyrone Slothrop (Tyrone Slothrop), Tuesday, 2 January 2007 01:53 (seventeen years ago) link
― Michael Daddino (epicharmus), Tuesday, 2 January 2007 01:57 (seventeen years ago) link
― BIG HOOS aka the steendriver (hoosteen), Tuesday, 2 January 2007 02:42 (seventeen years ago) link
― bohren un der club of gear (bohren un der club of gear), Tuesday, 2 January 2007 02:48 (seventeen years ago) link
― BIG HOOS aka the steendriver (hoosteen), Tuesday, 2 January 2007 02:56 (seventeen years ago) link
― amon (amon), Tuesday, 2 January 2007 03:29 (seventeen years ago) link
― dar1a g (dar1a g), Tuesday, 2 January 2007 03:43 (seventeen years ago) link
Brian Wilson broke, too (several times). Unlike Barrett, he did get fixed; unfortunately, that process made things worse.
It's serviceable, but I'd rather the article actually came at Landy from the opposite angle, as a controversial therapist who ended up changing the course of a musician's life rather than introducing Brian Wilson first and trying to use him as a parallel to Syd Barrett. It seems a little too reductive and leaves out the meat of Landy's story. And makes it sound like it's about Brian Wilson.
― mh (mike h.), Tuesday, 2 January 2007 03:44 (seventeen years ago) link
― Not For Use as Infant Nog (A-Ron Hubbard), Tuesday, 2 January 2007 03:46 (seventeen years ago) link
― f. scott baio (natepatrin), Tuesday, 2 January 2007 05:03 (seventeen years ago) link
― f. scott baio (natepatrin), Tuesday, 2 January 2007 05:05 (seventeen years ago) link
― Whiney G. Weingarten (whineyg), Tuesday, 2 January 2007 06:06 (seventeen years ago) link
― SKOTROK (Maria :D), Tuesday, 2 January 2007 06:12 (seventeen years ago) link
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/12/31/magazine/31naked.t.html?_r=1&oref=slogin
― Maria :D (Maria :D), Tuesday, 2 January 2007 06:15 (seventeen years ago) link
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 2 January 2007 06:20 (seventeen years ago) link
― sleeve (sleeve), Tuesday, 2 January 2007 07:38 (seventeen years ago) link
The Naked Guy obit is incredibly sad.
― Tiki Theater Xymposium (Tiki Theater Xymposium), Tuesday, 2 January 2007 08:44 (seventeen years ago) link
― Tim F (Tim F), Tuesday, 2 January 2007 09:13 (seventeen years ago) link
someone was still high on crack when he pushed the publish button.
― nathalie (stevienixed), Tuesday, 2 January 2007 09:17 (seventeen years ago) link
― they call me candle guy (kenan), Tuesday, 2 January 2007 09:35 (seventeen years ago) link
Which might be why some of the picking-on here is to totally off-base: Coleman, do you seriously not understand how someone's vocal style can be a secondhand influence people who never heard him? I mean, if that doesn't make sense to you, you should blame your grade-school teachers, not Klosterman. (The good news is that if you think about it long enough, you will suddenly realize why so many American punk bands since Green Day have singers who sound like they're about to cover "Alternative Ulster.")
― nabisco (nabisco), Tuesday, 2 January 2007 18:18 (seventeen years ago) link
― nabisco (nabisco), Tuesday, 2 January 2007 18:23 (seventeen years ago) link
― Jay (jaymacke), Tuesday, 2 January 2007 18:33 (seventeen years ago) link
In-thread comparison to the wonderful obit for Naked Guy isn't doing the piece any favors, either...
― adam beales (pye poudre), Tuesday, 2 January 2007 18:35 (seventeen years ago) link
xpost It's fairly banal, in the way that his stuff is often banal, but at least the conclusion he's pushing here -- that contrary to popular imagination (and don't kid yourself that this isn't the popular imagination), craziness is a hindrance to the craft of making art -- is one that seems true and useful, if not exactly revelatory. I mean, usually his stuff is banal in a way that seems actively wrong to me.
― nabisco (nabisco), Tuesday, 2 January 2007 18:40 (seventeen years ago) link
― Matt Cibula (Formerly, the Haikunym), Tuesday, 2 January 2007 18:43 (seventeen years ago) link
― Jay (jaymacke), Tuesday, 2 January 2007 18:46 (seventeen years ago) link
― scott seward (121212), Tuesday, 2 January 2007 18:48 (seventeen years ago) link
during the thread, we have piling on, ILM...the question will be placed 15 posts from the spot of the foul...we will repeat first post...
― henry s (henry s), Tuesday, 2 January 2007 18:51 (seventeen years ago) link
Worst People Who Will Not Be Missed:Augusto Pinochet, Jeane Kirkpatrick, Markus Wolf, P.W. Botha (gets the gasface!), Ta Mok, Ken Lay, Eugene Landy
― Tyrone Slothrop (Tyrone Slothrop), Tuesday, 2 January 2007 18:52 (seventeen years ago) link
except for the fact that his examples are people who made great music when they WEREN'T FEELING SO GOOD.
― scott seward (121212), Tuesday, 2 January 2007 18:52 (seventeen years ago) link
― Mr. Que (Party with me Punker), Tuesday, 2 January 2007 18:53 (seventeen years ago) link
OK seriously, this is the second time this has been said, and it still mystifies me. What on earth are you guys having trouble with in that statement? The claim is that Barrett is the starting point for that whole whimsical-English-psych voice, a commonplace that's spread far beyond the pool of people who ever much listened to Syd Barrett: I think that's absolutely inarguably true. (I know I personally could have recognized "whimsical-English-psych voice," in parody or imitation, well before I ever knew who Syd Barrett was.) So, like ... WTF is the problem with that line?
― nabisco (nabisco), Tuesday, 2 January 2007 19:05 (seventeen years ago) link
― scott seward (121212), Tuesday, 2 January 2007 19:06 (seventeen years ago) link
this is bullshit too. jesus, they dragged him to holland to help them record. seems like some people still felt he was pretty meaningful. granted, he was a mess and no mastermind anymore, but he contributes to every album they make in the early 70's with singing, old songs, new songs, crazy-ass radio plays(!!), etc. i don't think any "sane" person would write off brian+beachboyz circa 1970-1976.
― scott seward (121212), Tuesday, 2 January 2007 19:13 (seventeen years ago) link
― scott seward (121212), Tuesday, 2 January 2007 19:27 (seventeen years ago) link
― friday on the porch (lfam), Wednesday, 3 January 2007 05:18 (seventeen years ago) link
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 3 January 2007 05:18 (seventeen years ago) link
― sterl clover (s_clover), Wednesday, 3 January 2007 05:19 (seventeen years ago) link
― bill sackter (bill sackter), Wednesday, 3 January 2007 05:51 (seventeen years ago) link
^^^^This is basically my stance here.
But Stence, saying that Barrett's voice influenced people who didn't know of him is not a "wrong detail," it's demonstrably k-correct
It may be correct, and I obviously understand his implication I just protest the way he said it. No big thing. If I was his editor I would have said something like: I get what you are saying, but it reads pretty stupid and maybe you should change the wording around.
― Mr. Que (Party with me Punker), Wednesday, 3 January 2007 14:31 (seventeen years ago) link
― m coleman (lovebug ), Wednesday, 3 January 2007 14:58 (seventeen years ago) link
― Surmounter (Awn, R), Wednesday, 3 January 2007 15:26 (seventeen years ago) link
― nabisco (nabisco), Wednesday, 3 January 2007 17:55 (seventeen years ago) link
so not otm.
― Tyrone Slothrop (Tyrone Slothrop), Wednesday, 3 January 2007 17:57 (seventeen years ago) link
― Mr. Que (Party with me Punker), Wednesday, 3 January 2007 17:58 (seventeen years ago) link
― nabisco (nabisco), Wednesday, 3 January 2007 18:12 (seventeen years ago) link
― Tyrone Slothrop (Tyrone Slothrop), Wednesday, 3 January 2007 18:13 (seventeen years ago) link
― Mr. Que (Party with me Punker), Wednesday, 3 January 2007 18:17 (seventeen years ago) link
― scott seward (121212), Wednesday, 3 January 2007 18:23 (seventeen years ago) link
― Matt Cibula (Formerly, the Haikunym), Wednesday, 3 January 2007 19:04 (seventeen years ago) link
― Make a Beck Song #1 (wkwkwk), Wednesday, 3 January 2007 20:38 (seventeen years ago) link
― Make a Beck Song #1 (wkwkwk), Wednesday, 3 January 2007 20:41 (seventeen years ago) link
Damn, you're right, I'd forgotten about that! Something to catch up on.
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 3 January 2007 20:52 (seventeen years ago) link
That's all.
― mh (mike h.), Wednesday, 3 January 2007 20:59 (seventeen years ago) link
Okay, I'm coming in late, but WTF? Of course it's about his tone and not his points. KLOSTERMAN is about his tone and not his points!
In the rare cases when he has any... Reading him can be mildly pleasant, in the way that having a VH1 list show on in the background while doing other things can be mildly pleasant, or intensely aggravating, in the way that a VH1 list show inspires atavistic blood-fury if you actually pay attention to anything the talking heads say.
― Name Not Found (rogermexico), Wednesday, 3 January 2007 21:31 (seventeen years ago) link
― Make a Beck Song #1 (wkwkwk), Wednesday, 3 January 2007 21:39 (seventeen years ago) link
Joan Didion wept.
― Name Not Found (rogermexico), Wednesday, 3 January 2007 21:50 (seventeen years ago) link