Also, I do not think you can recover from PVS. I think that technically he must be in a coma, and people do think that you can communicate with people in comas. PVS (I think, but I am not a doctor) means you have no brain activity, which he must do, or nobody would be trying to communicate with him.
But it does also mean he can't have arranged the 'accident' that put Sam in hospital because he wasn't there to do so and his vendetta was of a different nature anyway. But the 'accident' ('end state' 1) still happens so Sam is in the hospital, and the torture ('end state' 2) still happens, but with different motivation.
I sincerely hope the people writing this programme are putting as much thought into these questions as you are.
― accentmonkey (accentmonkey), Wednesday, 14 February 2007 13:55 (seventeen years ago) link
I don't understand, this just sounds like "you can change some stuff except sometimes you can't". Is there anything special about the "end state" facts?
Oh, no, you can! My favourite news story of the last few years
― Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Wednesday, 14 February 2007 14:08 (seventeen years ago) link
I must admit, my main reason for assuming he is PVS and not in a coma is the issue over his mother being asked to turn off his life support. I was under the impression that you couldn't do this legally in Britain without PVS being declared and a year having elapsed (NHS Direct website seems to support this, and also that it can be recovered from). It says:
Vegetative state is caused as a result of severe injury to the part of the brain that controls thought and personality. A person in a vegetative state may seem to be awake and reflex responses may remain, but it is widely accepted that they have no awareness of their surroundings and that they are incapable of feeling mental distress or physical pain. It is common after someone has been in a coma.There is no treatment that can stop the effects of a vegetative state, but some people do make a recovery.However, many people will only gain some awareness, or are permanently brain damaged if they do recover.A person who has been in a vegetative state for more than one month is said to be in a persistent vegetative state. This is then considered permanent after a year. Recovery becomes less likely the longer the person is in a vegetative state.The BMA recommends that there should be a high standard of nursing care, good nutrition and stimulation should be available to people in a vegetative state.After about a year, doctors may decide that the person's condition is irreversible, and that keeping them alive is not in their best interests and consideration may be given to withdrawal of treatment. In England, any decision to stop a person's care will need to be made by the courts.
This seems to imply to me Sam has left his coma, but is unresponsive to anything at the hospital. That said, I can't find anything on when you can turn off support in a coma so it's conceivable the same rules could apply (although it's be a wonder of writing to show him recover from a coma he's been in for over a year without any vegetative state effects).
I suspect it is just me putting this much thought in. ;__;
― I am not a crappy security guard on L O S T (much_aldo_about_nothing), Wednesday, 14 February 2007 14:18 (seventeen years ago) link
― Chap (chap), Wednesday, 14 February 2007 14:18 (seventeen years ago) link
Not PVS! I only say this because I abstracted an article recently in which a neurologist was basically complaining about not being allowed to do things like take blood donations or organs from people in PVS, given that there was NO WAY they were ever going to come out of it and people should just stop kidding themselves. Although it could be just semantics.
I am paraphrasing, of course.
Well, you know how in a different programme, or in Back to the Future, or some other time travel meet up scenario, when Sam had changed the past, the bloke would most likely just melt away in the future. But he didn't. He was still there, torturing Sam, but he got there by a different route than the original one. Meaning he can't change the end state, just the means. I found that pretty bleak, actually.
― accentmonkey (accentmonkey), Wednesday, 14 February 2007 14:19 (seventeen years ago) link
― temporary enrique (temporary enrique), Wednesday, 14 February 2007 14:21 (seventeen years ago) link
I don't know. Again, it's possible the writers are not thinking as hard about his condition as you/we are. However, it occurs to me that he must be showing some signs of reaction or brain activity in order (as you say) for them to keep his life support switched on, and for them to keep trying to get through to him.
But who is trying to get through to him? If it turns out to be Whoopi Goldberg, I shall be vexed.
with blokey coming back as a mental patient to kill sam -- was this a 'totally random' attack of a madman, or did sam in fact set in train this course of events, making him an enemy, and the attack one of revenge?
Right! That's what I found bleak about this. Sam caused the attack by changing the time line.
― accentmonkey (accentmonkey), Wednesday, 14 February 2007 14:23 (seventeen years ago) link
Meaning he can't change the end state, just the means. I found that pretty bleak, actually.
Yeah, but he has changed the end state to an extent - there are psych ward records somewhere that weren't there before, for example.
― Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Thursday, 15 February 2007 11:26 (seventeen years ago) link
time travel, eh? fraught with difficulties.
fwiw, i think the best way to deal with these issues is just to accept them. i mean, let's not forget: time travel doesn't actually exist. therefore the parameters by which it "works" and by which events are changed are defined solely by the writers. so let's just roll with it, shall we?
episode two was, by any standards, absolutely fucking brilliant. genuinely powerful drama. philip glenister was quite, quite staggering. indeed, i'm considering running my department at work (roughly the same size as the detective team) in a gene hunt stylee :)
― grimly fiendish (simon), Thursday, 15 February 2007 11:29 (seventeen years ago) link
Haven't watched Series 1 since it was on, but he definitely told his mother to put money on Red Rum for the National and I'm pretty convinced he told someone about Hillsborough or something as well? So I think we can probably discount the he's not actually from the future theory - some things he's said go beyond just imagining what the enlightened future is like.
(OK, we thought he was going to get Marc Warren sent down for life but with parole he'd be out and gunning for him by 2006/7 anyway. I like the "change the means but the outcome remains" thing)
You think you're bad. I spent most of the second episode trying to work out if they'd put new seatbelts in the car
Ha, one of the other things that marks Sam out as not of the 70s is that he puts his seatbelt on at all. I remember when I was of primary school age in the late 70s/early 80s and finding it really weird if anyone asked me to wear a seatbelt in their car.
― ailsa_xx (ailsa_xx), Thursday, 15 February 2007 19:14 (seventeen years ago) link
Please to blog every day of such an experiment, also in a gene hunt stylee.
― accentmonkey (accentmonkey), Thursday, 15 February 2007 19:46 (seventeen years ago) link
― ailsa_xx (ailsa_xx), Thursday, 15 February 2007 19:55 (seventeen years ago) link
http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/1940000/images/_1944248_jameson_pa.jpg
― accentmonkey (accentmonkey), Thursday, 15 February 2007 19:57 (seventeen years ago) link
http://www.bbc.co.uk/lifeonmars/backstage/assets/pc_wallpaper/08_800x600.jpg
― ailsa_xx (ailsa_xx), Thursday, 15 February 2007 20:03 (seventeen years ago) link
We came up with an idea for a new 1970s-style claymation children's show. Battlestar Galactington.
― accentmonkey (accentmonkey), Thursday, 15 February 2007 20:07 (seventeen years ago) link
dA yy A zz Ay ^H^H dd
[sound of computer being smashed]
RIGHT. PUB!
― grimly fiendish (simon), Thursday, 15 February 2007 20:11 (seventeen years ago) link
― ailsa_xx (ailsa_xx), Thursday, 15 February 2007 20:18 (seventeen years ago) link
This seems to be part of some new BBC subliminal marketing campaign, because "Matt" out of Five Days was on when that serial was running.
None of these professional thespians, however, was as good as Lawro at telling the story.
― PJ Miller (PJ Miller), Friday, 16 February 2007 08:02 (seventeen years ago) link
― koogs (koogs), Friday, 16 February 2007 08:33 (seventeen years ago) link
― PJ Miller (PJ Miller), Friday, 16 February 2007 08:35 (seventeen years ago) link
― ailsa_xx (ailsa_xx), Friday, 16 February 2007 08:36 (seventeen years ago) link
(yes, pjm, in especially early because i have things to do and nobody here knows how to write a build script that actually builds. have spent two days just trying to get application to compile.)
― koogs (koogs), Friday, 16 February 2007 08:52 (seventeen years ago) link
― ailsa_xx (ailsa_xx), Friday, 16 February 2007 08:56 (seventeen years ago) link
― koogs (koogs), Friday, 16 February 2007 08:57 (seventeen years ago) link
― BounceBounceBounceBounceBounceBounceBounce (bounce), Friday, 16 February 2007 10:04 (seventeen years ago) link
― accentmonkey (accentmonkey), Friday, 16 February 2007 10:11 (seventeen years ago) link
― I am not a crappy security guard on L O S T (much_aldo_about_nothing), Friday, 16 February 2007 16:50 (seventeen years ago) link
Gene Hunt
What if this is literal, that the events from the last episode in Series 1 have convinced Sam that his dad (who we now know is a wrong 'un0 might not be his dad after all. What if his dad was actually a policeman, giving Sam his love of the the law, and the good DCI is a clue on the 'hunt' for his 'genes'. The voice of Hyde 2621 could be his real dad, who his mum has brought out of the woodwork since the coma, or possibly the phone calls are a submerged memory of conversations he had with him when he was a kid - that would fit in with "I have to phone you, we have to stick to the rules" - in much the same way S1 had a submerged memory surface about the last time he saw the man he thinks is his dad. There's also the wordplay link between hunt and hide.
I'm liking this more and more. There's also potential for Ashes To Ashes through this solution, following the 'real' Gene Hunt and not the one in Sam's mind.
― I am not a crappy security guard on L O S T (much_aldo_about_nothing), Friday, 16 February 2007 17:10 (seventeen years ago) link
― temporary enrique (temporary enrique), Wednesday, 21 February 2007 12:17 (seventeen years ago) link
why is there not an episode on next week? i couldn't be bothered to watch the next one but quite enjoyed this'n.
― resumo impetus (blueski), Wednesday, 21 February 2007 12:23 (seventeen years ago) link
― DavidM (DavidM), Wednesday, 21 February 2007 12:24 (seventeen years ago) link
― temporary enrique (temporary enrique), Wednesday, 21 February 2007 12:25 (seventeen years ago) link
― DavidM (DavidM), Wednesday, 21 February 2007 12:26 (seventeen years ago) link
the Camberwick Green trailer for this series.i enjoyed this enough to think that it might be nice if someone made an...'adult-orientated' animated series in this style, but with real heart, clever humour etc. because the narration+characters unable to make sound aspect shouldn't be the preserve of kids, perhaps.
― resumo impetus (blueski), Wednesday, 21 February 2007 12:32 (seventeen years ago) link
― resumo impetus (blueski), Wednesday, 21 February 2007 12:34 (seventeen years ago) link
It's very good but a bit pleased with itself really. (story involved irish/explosives/"The irish'd never blow up a pub, name me a paddy that doesn't like a drink" ahaha we see what you did there! Also, Chunky kitkat were not available in the seventies and JSims character would know that!
― M Grout (Mark Grout), Wednesday, 21 February 2007 12:37 (seventeen years ago) link
― C J (C J), Wednesday, 21 February 2007 12:50 (seventeen years ago) link
I guess it will be, again.
― M Grout (Mark Grout), Wednesday, 21 February 2007 12:51 (seventeen years ago) link
― Chap (chap), Wednesday, 21 February 2007 13:18 (seventeen years ago) link
― Chap (chap), Wednesday, 21 February 2007 13:20 (seventeen years ago) link
― vicky (Vicky), Wednesday, 21 February 2007 13:56 (seventeen years ago) link
He does know that but every now and again he forgets himself 'whoops, oh yeah it's 1973 innit, d'oh'.Didn't like episode 3 as much as the first two."Frank Miller"!
― DavidM (DavidM), Wednesday, 21 February 2007 14:05 (seventeen years ago) link
Like I say, metaphor past elastic limit.
Frank Miller?
Also in what sort of crazed world is a chunky kitkat more of a treat than a regular one? I don't pay my license fee to watch such foolishness etc etc.
― Tim (Tim), Wednesday, 21 February 2007 14:08 (seventeen years ago) link
― Forest Pines (ForestPines), Wednesday, 21 February 2007 14:08 (seventeen years ago) link
In every sort of crazed world! You loon.
― It's Teatime in Buttercup Land (Maaarghk C), Wednesday, 21 February 2007 14:22 (seventeen years ago) link
question from previous series: why wouldn't Tyler bet on famous sports results?
i was gonna say the woman who plays Annie seems to be becoming worse at acting each week :( she's nearly as bad as the pub landlord.
― resumo impetus (blueski), Wednesday, 21 February 2007 14:31 (seventeen years ago) link
― M Grout (Mark Grout), Wednesday, 21 February 2007 14:33 (seventeen years ago) link
Steve, he went on about Red Rum didn't he?
― Tim (Tim), Wednesday, 21 February 2007 14:34 (seventeen years ago) link
Red Rum? Red Rub more like
― resumo impetus (blueski), Wednesday, 21 February 2007 14:35 (seventeen years ago) link
― C J (C J), Wednesday, 21 February 2007 14:38 (seventeen years ago) link