The Children of Men Thread

Message Bookmarked

Bookmark Removed

Anyone else saw this? I thought it was incredible (although I am still chewing on the possible religious/gender/political implications) just stunning looking with great performances (esp. by Owen who has had quite a year, hasn't he?). Seems almost hard to believe that a movie this bleak is a big studio film, although I guess they might be trying to punish it by rolling it out slowly on a Monday of all days.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Tuesday, 26 December 2006 16:38 (seventeen years ago) link

i really want to see this; in fact it's probably the only movie of the past year that I can't wait to see. it came out in the UK a while ago, right? surprised there wasn't more discussion about it.

― akm (akmonday), Tuesday, 26 December 2006 16:49 (seventeen years ago) link

There was in fact a huge amount of discussion about it on real ILX when it came out in the UK, my friends. Thus my interest in seeing this film at some point.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 26 December 2006 17:03 (seventeen years ago) link

there was a fair bit of discussion. a good long thread on old ilx.

xpost

― colin0Hara (colin_o_hara), Tuesday, 26 December 2006 17:03 (seventeen years ago) link

Still remains my favorite movie of the year.

― Tiki Theater Xymposium (Tiki Theater Xymposium), Tuesday, 26 December 2006 17:47 (seventeen years ago) link

I've been thinking this movie is very much like a videogame. Long impressive 'POV' action scenes interspersed with what feel like cut-scenes in a way, building from one set piece to the next. And the plot is totally built on videogame logic. i.e. 'transport the girl' 'find the safe house' 'break into bexhill' etc. It would make a great game! Kind of a Metal Gear Solid for shoeless amateurs.

― Euai Kapaui (tracerhand), Tuesday, 26 December 2006 18:24 (seventeen years ago) link

i saw this today, it's good. pretty brutal. among other things the best thriller i've seen in a while -- kept me tense from close to the beginning onward. could have been shorter, probably one harrowing escape too many. but overall even the bits of hollywood off the shelf stuff (you know clive owen's a good guy cuz animals like him) didn't bother me much because the performances were good enough to absorb the cliches.

― tipsy mothra (tipsy mothra), Wednesday, 27 December 2006 00:30 (seventeen years ago) link

Saw it today, great great movie. Easily the best of the year. Seemed to pack in a lot for a sub-2hr movie, without being too dense or feeling like it would never end.

I was worried the trailer would ruin a good part of it (and it did spoil some scenes that would have had more impact to start with), but the other shocks were often heart-breaking.

Only semi-negative is that Chiwetel Ejiofor's character could have been handled with more depth - he was kind of a "do you see?!" talking point.

Fantastic performance from Michael Caine.

― milo (milo), Wednesday, 27 December 2006 00:46 (seventeen years ago) link

Yeah the "radicals" in general are def. kind of weakly drawn and the politics of the entire film are mostly of the "do you see?!" variety.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Wednesday, 27 December 2006 00:54 (seventeen years ago) link

That said it's such a crackling thriller that bitching about the political obviousness seems kind of beside the point.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Wednesday, 27 December 2006 00:58 (seventeen years ago) link

GET ONE SPERM COUNT, LOSER

― Johnny Cash Rules Everything Around Me (Modal Fugue), Wednesday, 27 December 2006 01:03 (seventeen years ago) link

It's one of the best films I've ever seen.

― The Real Dirty Vicar (The Real Dirty Vicar), Wednesday, 27 December 2006 23:07 (seventeen years ago) link

Yay, I'm so happy the Americans all like this film, it really is fantastic.

― Chap (chap), Thursday, 28 December 2006 00:31 (seventeen years ago) link

yeah that was unreal. altho i have to say that i was the only one of my friends who really loved it.

― Jams Murphy (ystrickler), Thursday, 28 December 2006 01:44 (seventeen years ago) link

One of the people I saw it with was just exhausted by it and the other was sort of non-plussed so it's clearly not for everyone.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Thursday, 28 December 2006 01:45 (seventeen years ago) link

yeah my girlfriend kept saying how movie-like it felt to her, how the arc was so far from organic. when she was describing the nuts and bolts of it (and then this, and then that), i could see her point, but the movie had me in those first five minutes so fully that i just didn't even see it. it was such an economical film. i was in awe of the craftsmanship of it. cuaron obviously really thought hard about what the overall feel and techniques of the film would say when taken as a whole -- it was very scorsese-like in its approach, while also COMPLETELY opposite in execution. also the editing was spectacular. anything less than an amazing editor could have easily made that film a piece of shit.

― Jams Murphy (ystrickler), Thursday, 28 December 2006 01:58 (seventeen years ago) link

oh and the last thing, which i thought was genius, was that in the first thirty minutes there are two moments of quiet reflection (the opening scene, the car ride) that are so shockingly and suddenly disturbed that for the rest of the movie i was MOST tense during the calmer moments that are supposed to be breathers. and so i definitely get being exhausted, but the beauty is that cuaron never broke that calm in the same way again (that i can recall), he just conditioned us to expect the worst.

― Jams Murphy (ystrickler), Thursday, 28 December 2006 02:00 (seventeen years ago) link

cuaron obviously really thought hard about what the overall feel and techniques of the film would say when taken as a whole

this is almost exactly how i described it to someone today -- that it was good to see such a [i]well made[/i] movie. intelligently constructed, energetically executed, coherent from top to bottom. brains and brawn in equal measure. the trick of a "future" movie -- or any non-contemporary movie, i guess -- is to give you a complete world that you can believe, where details that you don't expect keep reinforcing the sense of immersion. this one does that really well.

― tipsy mothra (tipsy mothra), Thursday, 28 December 2006 02:38 (seventeen years ago) link

(oops pardon the bad ital tags)

― tipsy mothra (tipsy mothra), Thursday, 28 December 2006 02:39 (seventeen years ago) link

The shoeless jumpstart getaway is possibly my favorite getaway ever! Plus how the idiot blond rasta falls for the EXACT same car-door trick AGANE.

― Euai Kapaui (tracerhand), Thursday, 28 December 2006 11:51 (seventeen years ago) link

I agree with teh vicar. It is one of the best films I have ever seen also. For the reasons given by Jams. Hooray.

― accentmonkey (accentmonkey), Thursday, 28 December 2006 12:41 (seventeen years ago) link

it was great up until the end

shame

― shakey mo jopotatoes (bundgee), Friday, 29 December 2006 18:11 (seventeen years ago) link

It would have been perfect if it had ended with the dinghy and the buoy and the fog, maybe a foghorn and a light in the distance, and just cut straight to black. I did wonder why they couldn't have taken a rowboat from a mile down the shore. I guess everything else was guarded EXCEPT the prison?

― Euai Kapaui (tracerhand), Friday, 29 December 2006 18:36 (seventeen years ago) link

"It would have been perfect if it had ended with the dinghy and the buoy and the fog"

There is barely 30 seconds of footage after that point!

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Friday, 29 December 2006 18:56 (seventeen years ago) link

The best big-studio film I've seen since Munich (tho it doesn't approach it). And I imagine the best we'll get for awhile on Bush's Two Wars. I do share Tracer's caveat (if that's what it is) on videogame aesthetic. However, aside from the infertility angle, this is eerily how I have pictured what the world will be like in my dotage.

There's gotta be some film-mag type reportage on the effects, yeah? Cuz some of the "single-shot" scenes are obv impossible.

Caine's Jasper = every ILX pothead's future.
Brits (esp), pls explain "strawberry cough" joke.

The ship really should've been called anything but TOMORROW.

Also, you "one of the best ever" ppl, no. But Curaon has atoned for Y Tu Mama Tambien.

― Dr M (Dr Morbius), Saturday, 30 December 2006 18:27 (seventeen years ago) link

i thought "strawberry cough" was just the name of that variety of weed -- he had bred it so that you got strawberry flavor from the smoke when you coughed.

― tipsy mothra (tipsy mothra), Saturday, 30 December 2006 18:29 (seventeen years ago) link

hmmm, Caine told it like a joke tho (bloody Cockney knights)

― Dr M (Dr Morbius), Saturday, 30 December 2006 18:41 (seventeen years ago) link

Not bad, but I wanted more science.

― Jeff... (Jeff...), Saturday, 30 December 2006 19:44 (seventeen years ago) link

He's a stoner. You smoke this, you cough, it smells of strawberries = serious stoner roffles!

― Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Saturday, 30 December 2006 21:42 (seventeen years ago) link

Last I checked, google still works.

― shakey mo jopotatoes (bundgee), Sunday, 31 December 2006 00:54 (seventeen years ago) link

it does. and reveals that strawberry cough exists.

― tipsy mothra (tipsy mothra), Sunday, 31 December 2006 01:13 (seventeen years ago) link

Great movie!

― Michael White (Miguelito), Sunday, 31 December 2006 19:52 (seventeen years ago) link

I enjoyed this quite a bit. The scenario seemed a little silly for such a sincere film. Ethnic cleansing and the end of days are gritty backgrounds for a riveting thriller about trying to get to a boat.

I love the idea of today's WTO revolutionaries growing up to be Michael Caine's age, smoking homegrown with a be-dreaded, middle-aged white midwife, both of which really into hip-hop and conspiracy theories.

― Michael (Oakland Mike), Sunday, 31 December 2006 22:41 (seventeen years ago) link

Sorry Shakes, it'd never occur to me that strwb koff was part of stoner culture.

It is pretty much a chase movie after midpoint, but ppl used to idea-free thrillers will complain there's too much talk... Did stopping the battle long enough for the baby to get to safety work OK for everybody?

Owen who has had quite a year, hasn't he?

Refresh me ... besides the nearly universally despised Closer at the end of '05?

― Dr M (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 2 January 2007 20:54 (seventeen years ago) link

Closer was 2004.

The only other movie he's had recently was Inside Man.

― milo (milo), Tuesday, 2 January 2007 21:05 (seventeen years ago) link

that wasn't me btw... I haven't seen this cuz I was really put off by the preview but all the praise here has piqued my interest.

― Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 2 January 2007 21:06 (seventeen years ago) link

Yeah, Inside Man was what I was referring to.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Tuesday, 2 January 2007 21:06 (seventeen years ago) link

Did stopping the battle long enough for the baby to get to safety work OK for everybody?

i thought it was done pretty well, mostly because it didn't go on too long. the shooting started right back up and everybody basically forgot about the miracle baby.

― tipsy mothra (tipsy mothra), Tuesday, 2 January 2007 21:07 (seventeen years ago) link

one thing i'm curious about is whether the fertility angle is more developed in the book. in the movie, it's more of a pretext for this kind of war-on-terror/globophobia allegory.

― tipsy mothra (tipsy mothra), Tuesday, 2 January 2007 21:08 (seventeen years ago) link

I haven't read the novel yet, but apparently it's a very loose adaptation -- the Owen character is a history professor, the ex-wife is a combination of two in the book, more political detail, etc.

Interesting debate btwn Matt Z. Seitz and respondents at his site as to whether the tech dazzle is at the expense of the tale:

http://mattzollerseitz.blogspot.com/2006/12/tail-wags-dog-children-of-men.html

― Dr M (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 2 January 2007 21:15 (seventeen years ago) link

What did you all think of Emmanuel Lubezki?

― Michael White (Miguelito), Tuesday, 2 January 2007 21:15 (seventeen years ago) link

well, he's had two of the best photographed films of the last couple years with this and The New World, but I hadn't realized he'd done all of Cuaron's films (as he's Mexican, not Eastern-Euro as one might guess) except the H. Potter. Cuaron talks about their style this time:

http://www.greencine.com/article?action=view&articleID=384

― Dr M (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 2 January 2007 21:26 (seventeen years ago) link

"What was fundamental for us in Children of Men was his work with Terrence Malick shooting The New World. Because then he was fearless about Children. In Malick's film, he didn't use any electric lights. Everything was source light, so he wanted to do the same thing with Children of Men. So he was adding, on top of creating the moment and registering the moment and not using montage, on top of that, there was only using available light. Chivo and I were very concerned about controlling and about trying to create that aesthetic."

That's not only ballsy (you can't easily re-shoot and time controls you more) but really hard.

― Michael White (Miguelito), Tuesday, 2 January 2007 21:33 (seventeen years ago) link

shades of Dogme 95

― Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 2 January 2007 21:41 (seventeen years ago) link

well, the part where he says they made cuts in one sequence cuz otherwise ppl would think it was a rigid aesthetic is pretty anti-Dogme.

― Dr M (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 3 January 2007 14:16 (seventeen years ago) link

right, I was just referring to the "only using available light" thing

― Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 3 January 2007 16:47 (seventeen years ago) link

i think seitz is mostly right (which i only think about him occasionally). like, i mostly agree with this:

The movie felt less passionate and personal to me than Mad Max, Blade Runner, Brazil, Spielberg's War of the Worlds or the sleazy but fascinating 1975 midnight movie A Boy and His Dog

my exception would be war of the worlds, but i just don't understand spielberg cultists, so whatever.

― tipsy mothra (tipsy mothra), Wednesday, 3 January 2007 18:53 (seventeen years ago) link

(and on balance i liked the movie more than he did, but i might have been hoping for less than he was; i was happy enough with its visceral impact, and while it doesn't really sustain emotional involvement there were moments that hit me pretty hard)

― tipsy mothra (tipsy mothra), Wednesday, 3 January 2007 18:54 (seventeen years ago) link

I had never even heard of it before I went to see it. I had no idea who was in it or what it was about or anything.

― Euai Kapaui (tracerhand), Wednesday, 3 January 2007 18:58 (seventeen years ago) link

I don't think this is playing here. :(

― JordanC (JordanC), Wednesday, 3 January 2007 18:59 (seventeen years ago) link

WotW passionate and personal?

― milo (milo), Wednesday, 3 January 2007 19:01 (seventeen years ago) link

Yeah.

haha, most iconic and popular filmmaker of last 30 years has "cultists"

― Dr M (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 3 January 2007 19:08 (seventeen years ago) link

Why is that a contradiction? Popular figures can't have cult-ish followers? Have you not met any Reaganites?

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Wednesday, 3 January 2007 19:46 (seventeen years ago) link

elvis fanatics?

― bohren un der club of gear (bohren un der club of gear), Wednesday, 3 January 2007 19:52 (seventeen years ago) link

Even better example.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Wednesday, 3 January 2007 19:54 (seventeen years ago) link

yeah, I get it. We've had so many Spielberg klosterfucks just assume I'm going tongue-in-cheek on the topic in the future (you Melville cultist).

On Biblical and journo-contemporary imagery in COM (and interesting Cuaron comments in linked Cinematical interview on how Clive Owen is more of a writer on the film than 3 of those credited):

http://www.nakedgaze.com/2006/12/alfonso_cuarns_.html

― Dr M (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 3 January 2007 19:55 (seventeen years ago) link

(by spielberg cultist i mean people who treat his mediocre "serious" movies like they're omg DEEP and his mediocre "action" films like they're...omg DEEP(allegories! soooo important!). closest siblings obviously being depalma cultists, with great overlap between the two. i blame pauline kael for the whole thing.)

― tipsy mothra (tipsy mothra), Wednesday, 3 January 2007 21:51 (seventeen years ago) link

(i.e. a lot of the things msz sez about children of men goes in spades for minority report, a.i. and wotw.)

― tipsy mothra (tipsy mothra), Wednesday, 3 January 2007 21:52 (seventeen years ago) link

really, really liked this -- in fact, want to see again. parts of it reminded me of 12 monkeys (especially when C.Owen gets abducted by the terrorists), and the reaction of the troops to the baby seemed a little too deus ex machina, but it just seemed to go by really quickly, and I was pretty into it the whole time. my ADD says that's a good reason to love a movie.

― Dominique (dleone), Wednesday, 3 January 2007 22:01 (seventeen years ago) link

For the record I think it is better than War of the Worlds (which I don't rate), A Boy and His Dog (which I do), and the original Bladerunner (which isn't as good as. . .), worse than Road Warrior (but better than Mad Max) and Blade Runner: The Director's Cut and just about on par with Brazil (which I guess I don't rate quite as highly as most.)

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Wednesday, 3 January 2007 22:05 (seventeen years ago) link

Kael hated his serious things! And was far more ambivalent about his achievements than not.

― Alfred Soto (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 3 January 2007 22:07 (seventeen years ago) link

I think my favorite thing about it is that it made the future seem boring, or at least not all that different. No flying cars ... just fancier operating systems, different products, etc. There are pockets of newness, but also plenty of old stuff that no one bothered to try to improve on.

― Michael (Oakland Mike), Wednesday, 3 January 2007 22:15 (seventeen years ago) link

yeah i mean i blame kael for the depalma worship, which latter-day spielbergism seems derivative of.

― tipsy mothra (tipsy mothra), Wednesday, 3 January 2007 22:16 (seventeen years ago) link

I loved how it turned London into a third world city, complete with tuk-tuks.

― Chap (chap), Wednesday, 3 January 2007 22:17 (seventeen years ago) link

you should read some of the positive reviews i've seen for 'the black dahlia'. why not only is it not bad, but it's a misunderstood masterpiece.

― bohren un der club of gear (bohren un der club of gear), Wednesday, 3 January 2007 22:20 (seventeen years ago) link

i might have mentioned how much i hated it before, possibly on ilx.

― bohren un der club of gear (bohren un der club of gear), Wednesday, 3 January 2007 22:20 (seventeen years ago) link

SHE LOOKS LIKE THAT DEAD GIRL!

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Wednesday, 3 January 2007 22:21 (seventeen years ago) link

I still think the Dahlia dildo wasn't period-correct.

― milo (milo), Wednesday, 3 January 2007 22:26 (seventeen years ago) link

there's a joke in there somewhere

― bohren un der club of gear (bohren un der club of gear), Wednesday, 3 January 2007 22:29 (seventeen years ago) link

The movie needed another half hour which I would have gladly sat through. One of the best movies of the year and the half-life 2-ish scene was just astonishing. I have a love/hate thing with 90s literary sci-fi dystopias, but there was always hope amongst the resignation here.

― nuilxhollywood (nuilxhollywood), Wednesday, 3 January 2007 22:40 (seventeen years ago) link

I haven't seen Owen yet in anything else but Croupier and thought the hollowness/weariness was pretty impressive. Also, the Janet Leigh Effect with J. Moore shocks well.

closest siblings obviously being depalma cultists

haha, haven't you seen the fite-fites btwn Steven Cultist me and Brian Cultist Eric?

― Dr M (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 3 January 2007 23:14 (seventeen years ago) link

yeah but that's like methodists and lutherans.

― tipsy mothra (tipsy mothra), Wednesday, 3 January 2007 23:17 (seventeen years ago) link

the blood on the camera bit during that long shootout scene.. wow

― this is cutty (mcutt), Wednesday, 3 January 2007 23:24 (seventeen years ago) link

oh yeah that was a good touch. unplanned, i assumed. or maybe they just wanted me to think that.

― tipsy mothra (tipsy mothra), Wednesday, 3 January 2007 23:26 (seventeen years ago) link

I really didn't like that. Up until that point, the suture was extremely effective and I found the blood jarring. After that, the film got a bit ridiculous with the baby and troops and then the boat. I never got back into it.

― coz larry (bundgee), Wednesday, 3 January 2007 23:33 (seventeen years ago) link

re: blood on the camera, there were a lot of moments when I didn't know if I was looking at something real or computer graphics (but the baby wasn't one of those times)

x-post

― Dominique (dleone), Wednesday, 3 January 2007 23:35 (seventeen years ago) link

yeah how did they do the birth scene?

― this is cutty (mcutt), Wednesday, 3 January 2007 23:36 (seventeen years ago) link

it was all filmed in reverse

― coz larry (bundgee), Wednesday, 3 January 2007 23:54 (seventeen years ago) link

eureka

― this is cutty (mcutt), Thursday, 4 January 2007 01:04 (seventeen years ago) link

More post-apocalyptic movies should have a running joke about cigarettes killing you quicker.

― milo (milo), Thursday, 4 January 2007 01:10 (seventeen years ago) link

The movie needed another half hour which I would have gladly sat through.

OTM

― Euai Kapaui (tracerhand), Thursday, 4 January 2007 10:44 (seventeen years ago) link

No, no more unnecessarily long films please. I don't get Seitz bringing Brazil into the discussion, as aside from the dystopian settings they're about as diff in tone as you can get.

Yes, blood on lens was accident (it vanishes digitally later).

xpost

Ghettoizing Spielbergs into "serious" and not is as lazy as saying Scorsese is "back" bcz he made a superficial mob epic.

― Dr M (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 4 January 2007 14:15 (seventeen years ago) link

no, it's as lazy as saying "longer" = "unneccessary".

see, i could do this all day, just like you!

― Euai Kapaui (tracerhand), Thursday, 4 January 2007 15:30 (seventeen years ago) link

well, it wd've been unnec in this case (I like some 9-hr films).

― Dr M (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 4 January 2007 15:45 (seventeen years ago) link

The film opens with a scene where detail about the world is filled in by a voice on a television, which is blown up in a terrorist attack (OR WAS IT etc). Cut to an office, where our hero is working in his joyless job, surrounded by joyless people. I seem to remember something specifically Brazil-like about the office his supervisor works in - towering piles of paper or somethin else that suggests work being done for basically no reason.

― Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Thursday, 4 January 2007 16:41 (seventeen years ago) link

Shoah?

― Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 4 January 2007 16:42 (seventeen years ago) link

(grr x-post)

― Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 4 January 2007 16:46 (seventeen years ago) link

Clive's boss lots less funny than Ian Holm

(adjourn to new board)

― Bill Weber (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 4 January 2007 17:21 (seventeen years ago) link

Ghettoizing Spielbergs into "serious" and not is as lazy as saying Scorsese is "back" bcz he made a superficial mob epic.

spielberg has very self-consciously bifurcated his own career that way (hence the scare quotes), at least post-E.T. i'm in the boring subgroup that thinks he made all his best movies before E.T. anyway, so i don't really care whether the later ones are "serious" or not. (and fwiw, i haven't seen munich because nothing else he's done has made me think omg i have to see munich. but i will eventually.)

― tipsy mothra (tipsy mothra), Thursday, 4 January 2007 18:42 (seventeen years ago) link

(in fact i just added munich to my netflix AND bumped it up to #5. my expectations aren't too high, so maybe it'll surpass them.)

― tipsy mothra (tipsy mothra), Thursday, 4 January 2007 18:47 (seventeen years ago) link

You must be logged in to post. Please either login here, or if you are not registered, you may register here.