another intelligent & well-reasoned article by chuck klosterman

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now it's offical: he's the Peggy Noonan of pop culture crit

mark coleman (lovebug ), Saturday, 16 December 2006 14:44 (seventeen years ago) link

A man of such total vacuity I think even Andy Warhol would've been jealous.

Michael Daddino (epicharmus), Saturday, 16 December 2006 18:14 (seventeen years ago) link

(At least Warhol's art -- even at its most banal -- wasn't endless insecure waffley navel-gaze. God, compared to Klosterman, he was a man of action.)

Michael Daddino (epicharmus), Saturday, 16 December 2006 18:20 (seventeen years ago) link

Let's pretend they made no attempts to relocate the survivors or deliver aid, and New Orleans was allowed to devolve into a rogue dystopia that was no longer recognized as part of the union. One assumes this would prompt cataclysmic outrage; it would be no different from the state-sponsored execution of random poor people, which seems like a revolt-worthy offense. Yet if such a nightmare scenario had actually happened, what could the average middle-class resident of Boise, Idaho (or anywhere else), have done? He'd lose faith in the democratic process, and he'd possibly update his blog.

He's right.

our hoo could be your steen (hoosteen), Saturday, 16 December 2006 18:33 (seventeen years ago) link

Person from North Dakota thinking that "the average middle-class resident of Boise, Idaho" = everyone in the U.S. O APATHETIC CENTRIST PSEUDOPOPULISM I LUV U

Matt Cibula (Formerly, the Haikunym), Saturday, 16 December 2006 18:46 (seventeen years ago) link

he writes like a very bright and very irritating sixteen year old

urghonomic (gcannon), Saturday, 16 December 2006 18:52 (seventeen years ago) link

wow

latebloomer's mayan name is tapir ballz (clonefeed), Saturday, 16 December 2006 18:55 (seventeen years ago) link

Person from North Dakota thinking that "the average middle-class resident of Boise, Idaho" = everyone in the U.S. O APATHETIC CENTRIST PSEUDOPOPULISM I LUV U

you left out the "(or anywhere else)" part. i also fail to see how what he said as anything to do with a) apathy, b) centrism, or c) pseudopopulism, whatever that is

nuneb (nuneb), Saturday, 16 December 2006 19:34 (seventeen years ago) link

As stated by donut just now on a quick scan through of this: "Sounds like the Ronald Thomas Clontle of politics."

Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 16 December 2006 19:43 (seventeen years ago) link

me and all my friends
we're all misunderstood
they say we stand for nothing and
there's no way we ever could
now we see everything that's going wrong
with the world and those who lead it
we just feel like we don't have the means
to rise above and beat it

tipsy mothra (tipsy mothra), Saturday, 16 December 2006 19:47 (seventeen years ago) link

http://www.nndb.com/people/683/000022617/billyJoel.jpg
totally didn't start it, not my fault, swear.

jhoshea (jhoshea), Saturday, 16 December 2006 20:14 (seventeen years ago) link

...we were trying to come up with conditions that could ignite a people's uprising we'd actively involve ourselves with. These possibilities ranged from "massive water shortage" (which could happen in India in the coming decade) to "political infiltration by flesh-eating panda zombies" (which happened in Nepal in 2005).

um, no.

i don't know why i'm dignifying this douchetard with any sort of response, but it goes without saying that this alcolyte of rand and ratt has about as much a grasp of international politics as, say, a carrot.

Tyrone Slothrop (Tyrone Slothrop), Saturday, 16 December 2006 21:13 (seventeen years ago) link

acolyte, even. but whatever, i may spell bad, but thank god i'm not klosterman.

Tyrone Slothrop (Tyrone Slothrop), Saturday, 16 December 2006 21:17 (seventeen years ago) link

I read somewhere that Klosterman is super-pals with Bill "Maxim target audience" Simmons. God help us.

nathan explosion (natepatrin), Saturday, 16 December 2006 22:11 (seventeen years ago) link

It's a bit boring to counter Klosterman-style social quips with basic factual analysis, but he's missing the obvious step that leads to revolutions: the important part isn't that something bad happens to people, it's that when people assemble and demonstrate and complain about the thing, the government takes a violently adversarial position toward them. The thing that gets a revolution rolling isn't (e.g.) the massive water shortage, it's (e.g.) the National Guard firing into the unruly mob of water-demanding people.

the pony-poop paradox (the pony-poop paradox), Saturday, 16 December 2006 22:15 (seventeen years ago) link

The "bright sixteen-year-old" line seems really apt, actually, cause he seems to stick at this point where he can write something that sounds nice and is kinda funny but is more about his ability to write something engaging than any penetrating analysis of the actual issue. It's totally glib in that way, and that's why he'll turn out an article like this one but would presumably never tackle something vexing and unfunny like race relations or war or whatever. He hews close to comedy, which I guess is fine, but he could probably afford to admit it a bit more, rather than dressing up observational comedy as social commentary.

the pony-poop paradox (the pony-poop paradox), Saturday, 16 December 2006 22:18 (seventeen years ago) link

Simmons appears to be much less of a douchebag than Klosterman.

milo (milo), Saturday, 16 December 2006 23:51 (seventeen years ago) link

and he's actually a great basketball writer

jhoshea (jhoshea), Saturday, 16 December 2006 23:53 (seventeen years ago) link

The "bright sixteen-year-old" line seems really apt, actually, cause he seems to stick at this point where he can write something that sounds nice and is kinda funny but is more about his ability to write something engaging than any penetrating analysis of the actual issue. It's totally glib in that way, and that's why he'll turn out an article like this one but would presumably never tackle something vexing and unfunny like race relations or war or whatever. He hews close to comedy, which I guess is fine, but he could probably afford to admit it a bit more, rather than dressing up observational comedy as social commentary.

right, and in this way Klosterman's kinda just another exemplar of the culture at large - I mean, bitching about how style gets more play than substance is never gonna make you look cool, but that's essentially what's at issue here, isn't it?

Jaufre Rudel (Jaufre Rudel), Saturday, 16 December 2006 23:56 (seventeen years ago) link

(for "style" sub "an easily digestible rhetorical stance" if you like)

Jaufre Rudel (Jaufre Rudel), Saturday, 16 December 2006 23:58 (seventeen years ago) link

Simmons appears to be much less of a douchebag than Klosterman.

Enh, something about his woo-bachelor-party attitude and his casual borderline misogyny ("lol WNBA") kinda rankles me. On the other hand, he's a huge mark for The Wire so what can you do.

nathan explosion (natepatrin), Sunday, 17 December 2006 01:08 (seventeen years ago) link

simmons, despite the casual nba hate and stupid vegas references, is way smarter than youd think. certainly smarter than i assume many of his fans to be.

max (maxreax), Sunday, 17 December 2006 01:25 (seventeen years ago) link

"You might think the government is corrupt, and you might be right. But I'm surprised it isn't worse. I'm surprised they don't shoot us in the street. It's not like we could do anything about it, except maybe die."

forksclovetofu (forksclovetofu), Sunday, 17 December 2006 01:30 (seventeen years ago) link

Simmons' great problem (aside from repeating himself) is that "OMG SWINGERS CHANGED MY LIFE WOOOOO VEGAS" schtick.

I like him mostly because, unlike other sports writers, he has a little bit of perspective and most of all DOESN'T HATE THE ATHLETES. He gets dumb sometimes (A-Rod, whining about Sox 'chemistry), though I think that might just be for his readers, but most of the time his columns are closer to the defending AI one from this week. He's also a pretty decent entertainment writer - like when he talks about the Wire or whatever.

Best thing about his weekly NFL picks right now are the Sports Gal mini-columns.

milo (milo), Sunday, 17 December 2006 02:28 (seventeen years ago) link

please don't sully ratt by bringing them into this discussion

violent j (sandboxhulkington), Sunday, 17 December 2006 04:24 (seventeen years ago) link

this discussion is just going round and round

Matt Cibula (Formerly, the Haikunym), Sunday, 17 December 2006 04:39 (seventeen years ago) link

see what i did there

Matt Cibula (Formerly, the Haikunym), Sunday, 17 December 2006 04:39 (seventeen years ago) link

Reads like it took him thirty minutes to write and even less time to think over.

Reading in today's Observer about the Morgan Stanley/Goldman Sachs bonus jockeys and the service industries that cater to their need for $2000 rolls of wallpaper which is being identified as 'Marie Antoinette syndrome' - very apt. Natural disasters, war and the like don't start what we think of as overthrows or revolutions; what actually does is an egregious difference and distance between the very rich and the rest of us which manifests itself in very obvious examples of one rule for us and another for them.

suzy artskooldisko (suzy artskooldisko), Sunday, 17 December 2006 17:52 (seventeen years ago) link

please don't sully ratt by bringing them into this discussion

-- violent j (jharvel...), December 17th, 2006. (later)

klosterfuck did it first!

Tyrone Slothrop (Tyrone Slothrop), Sunday, 17 December 2006 18:09 (seventeen years ago) link

hrm, klosterfuck... i like that!

chuck, if you're reading this thread (ha!), try reading up on other countries before you write about them:

December 17, 2006
Katmandu Memo
As Nepal Shakes Up Ancient Order, All Is Up in the Air
By SOMINI SENGUPTA

KATMANDU, Nepal — In a country that many outsiders might regard as ancient and unchanging, history is moving very quickly.

There is a new Constitution and a new national anthem. Citizenship rights have been conferred on millions of formerly disenfranchised Nepalese.

The very ground rules of nationhood are being rewritten here. In a sense, the Nepalese are making themselves into citizens of a nation rather than subjects of a king. In fact, the monarchy itself is an open question: a special assembly is to be elected next year to decide whether Nepal needs a king at all.

It is difficult to overstate how radically and quickly the ground is shifting in Nepal since King Gyanendra gave up his absolute rule in April and returned the government to an elected Parliament that was dismissed four years ago. Since then, government leaders and Maoist insurgents have been engaged in negotiations to end a decade-long civil war. The guns are quiet, but have not been put away. The rebels are slated to soon join the government.

More than that, the fundamentals of Nepali life are being reviewed. Under consideration now, for instance, is how many seats should be set aside in Parliament for women or for Dalits, those who were once considered untouchable on the Hindu caste ladder. The new Constitution is to determine whether Hinduism will remain the official state religion.

The so-called Madhesi ethnic group, which by some estimates represents as much as a third of Nepal’s population of 29 million, has been granted citizenship rights for the first time in the 50-year history of independent Nepal.

The physical landscape, too, bears the signs of radical churning. In the heart of this capital, where the king’s pronouncements used to be posted on tin billboards, there now hangs a banner, sponsored by a motor oil company, reminding commuters to fasten their seat belts.

[And in a move on Dec. 16 that would further strip King Gyanendra of power, the rebels and the governing coalition approved the draft of an interim Constitution that gives the prime minister complete executive authority and leaves the king with none, government officials said. In the spring, the king lost many significant powers and command of the military.]

Still, Nepal’s leaders seem not to want to revisit one area, and that is the question of what to do about the brutality of the past 10 years of war.

The Maoist insurgency, with the king’s crackdown, left a trail of human rights violations. An estimated 13,000 people were killed, primarily civilians. Scores disappeared, never to be found. Children were recruited to fight.

Mandira Sharma, who leads the Advocacy Forum, a nonprofit group that painstakingly documents rights infractions, wants prosecution of what she calls “gross” human rights abuses over the past decade. “Nepal’s problem is the culture of impunity” is how she put it.

The peace accord, which the government and the rebels signed in November, includes the establishment of a truth and reconciliation commission. Yet neither side seems ready to commit to putting people suspected of wrongdoing on trial.

“We will try to make reconciliation in the country — only that much I can say,” the home minister, Krishna Prasad Sitaula, said recently in an interview. “Whether we will punish or not, I don’t want to say. It will be too hurried to say now.”

He promised that the commission, due to be appointed as soon as an interim government takes over, would investigate rights violations both large and small. “If we think reconciliation will come from punishing someone,” he went on, “then we will punish.”

Baburam Bhattarai, the Maoists’ second-in-command, issued a remarkably similar call: “First let the truth come out. Then we’ll see.”

He said he personally favored the notion of punishing those who had committed the worst offenses. But he was swift to add: “We can’t go for revenge. We have to go for reconciliation, for the sake of peace.”

An early version of the peace accord included a high-level commission to investigate disappearances. That was dropped from the final agreement.

The United Nations high commissioner for human rights, while praising the idea of the commission, has pressed the new Nepalese government to start holding people accountable as well. “The truth commission is a useful contribution to the peace-building process and should not be done in place of prosecutions,” said Kieran Dwyer, a spokesman for the United Nations human rights office in Nepal. “It’s a question of re-establishing the rule of law.”

Why, wondered C. K. Lal, a columnist for The Nepali Times, should his compatriots worry about that now, when there has never been a collective accounting of human rights abuses before? After all, he pointed out, in Nepal’s deeply stratified society, an upper-caste villager could always exploit the child of a lower-caste family. Or during the pro-democracy movement of the 1980s, a man like himself could be arrested and held for having a banned newspaper in his bag. Would justice really help his country move forward?

“My heart says this has worked. Why not forget?” he said. “My mind says no, there’s a better way. Maybe bigger crimes can be punished. Maybe then it will be better for my children. So I don’t know, really.”

Tyrone Slothrop (Tyrone Slothrop), Sunday, 17 December 2006 18:10 (seventeen years ago) link

wait, so no zombie pandas?

baby wizard sex (gbx), Sunday, 17 December 2006 18:17 (seventeen years ago) link

nope, but hey isn't third-world politix funny?!? hardefuckinharhar.

Tyrone Slothrop (Tyrone Slothrop), Sunday, 17 December 2006 18:26 (seventeen years ago) link

Yet if such a nightmare scenario had actually happened, what could the average middle-class resident of Boise, Idaho (or anywhere else), have done?

You know what's really funny? Boise closed off roads all round the downtown capitol building after 9/11 so terrorists couldn't drive near it. They also encouraged everyone to get flood insurance after Katrina. In a high desert climate.

Abbott (Abbott), Sunday, 17 December 2006 18:38 (seventeen years ago) link

i think (well, ok, i more than think) that he's been misunderstood here. (perhaps wilfully?)

to begin with, the article suggests to me that he's more interested in 'revolution' than anyone who has posted on this thread.

nuneb (nuneb), Sunday, 17 December 2006 20:58 (seventeen years ago) link

well yes, he wrote an article about it.

a mediocre black-and-white cookie in a cellophane wrapper (hanks1ockli), Sunday, 17 December 2006 21:11 (seventeen years ago) link

anyway, this:

We have enough privately owned firepower to instantly kill a billion grizzly bears, plus a few dozen prostitutes.

is pretty creepy, i mean has the "dead prostitute" joke totally entered the mainstream now? esp with this shit still going on and nobody particularly caring:

Sixty-one prostitutes vanished from the Vancouver area in the two decades after 1983. Early in 2002, police investigated the Port Coquitlam hog farm of Robert William Pickton, where human remains were found. Mr. Pickton has been charged with the murder of 26 women. A trial on six of the charges is to begin on Jan. 8.

a mediocre black-and-white cookie in a cellophane wrapper (hanks1ockli), Sunday, 17 December 2006 21:13 (seventeen years ago) link

Nuneb, I suggest. you find a quarter or suitable currencv and BUY ONE CLUE.

suzy artskooldisko (suzy artskooldisko), Monday, 18 December 2006 00:38 (seventeen years ago) link

I expect somebody who still takes Ayn Rand seriously to be more interested in "revolution" than I am -- and not to their credit, either.

Michael Daddino (epicharmus), Monday, 18 December 2006 01:10 (seventeen years ago) link

Also: There are now roughly two hundred million guns in America, and that's only counting the NBA's Eastern Conference.

Michael Daddino (epicharmus), Monday, 18 December 2006 01:21 (seventeen years ago) link

RACIST

hoo keeps it steen/and they love that shit (hoosteen), Monday, 18 December 2006 01:39 (seventeen years ago) link

perhaps he is taking about biceps

latebloomer (clonefeed), Monday, 18 December 2006 01:44 (seventeen years ago) link

I have no fucking idea if it's racist but I do know it's Leno-worthy.

Michael Daddino (epicharmus), Monday, 18 December 2006 01:54 (seventeen years ago) link

that would make a great pull-quote for dude's next book!

a mediocre black-and-white cookie in a cellophane wrapper (hanks1ockli), Monday, 18 December 2006 02:11 (seventeen years ago) link

i think he was referring to the geographic area

remy bean (bean), Monday, 18 December 2006 03:04 (seventeen years ago) link

No, he was referring to the players.

milo (milo), Monday, 18 December 2006 03:32 (seventeen years ago) link


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