― Euai Kapaui (tracerhand), Monday, 4 December 2006 17:13 (seventeen years ago) link
― kingfish in absentia (kingfish), Monday, 4 December 2006 17:14 (seventeen years ago) link
The largest dragon (i.e. dinosaur) eggs that we've found to date are about the size of a football. One could fit, for example, a dozen brachiosaurus eggs in the trunk of a car, with room to spare! This also means that recently hatched dragons were not very large. Noah's mission was to preserve each kind of animal. You don't need to find the biggest of each kind. And you don't need each sub-divided species either. Did you know that most modern dog breeds are less than 100 years old? 2 healthy young mutts could preserve the genome of the entire "dog kind" of animals. The Bible uses the word "kind" for the different types of life forms. Horses and zebras can (and have) physically mated producing viable offspring; so have tigers and lions, indicating that they (according to creation theory) probably respectively diverged from the same original stock. Dogs and wolves (though considered quite different by humans today) probably originated from their same "kind" too. There are a few large animals (when fully grown) of course: giraffes, elephants, and T-rexes among them. But the average animal size is about sheep size, i.e. the 3-story Ark was plenty large enough to handle the variety of animal kinds plus lots of food for them. Speciation could descend again from original healthy "mutt" stock to start with. Thinking scientifically about this, it shows incredible variable design, huh?
― and what (ooo), Monday, 4 December 2006 17:16 (seventeen years ago) link
Dinosaur Adventure Land started as a dream of Dr. Kent Hovind's. Tired of the constant propaganda being spread about evolution through nearly all public state-funded science centers and museums, as though it is a fact, Dr. Hovind decided that it was time to start a Creation Museum, Science Center, and Theme Park that glorified God. Dinosaur Adventure Land opened its doors in October of 2001 bringing in over 4,000 visitors that year. The next year the number of visitors grew to over 10,000 visitors, and then 13,000, and finally in 2004 there were over 17,000 visitors that had toured the park. Dinosaur Adventure Land offers over 80 Activities with both scientific and spiritual lessons.
Our goal is for your visit to leave you tired, smarter and closer to the Lord. There are activities for all ages from 2 to 92. There is a 3 story hands-on Science center in the middle of the park with tons of activities that will keep you busy all day long. The Creation Museum has hundreds of amazing artifacts, that show evidence for creation. Such as, the Ica stones from Peru, showing pictures of men and dinosaurs on them. As well as, a fossilized pickle, charcoal, coconut, and crayon proving that it does not take millions of years to form fossils. About 250 people have their birthdays at Dinosaur Adventure Land each year. You can schedule your next birthday party at Dinosaur Adventure Land, by contacting the bookstore.
Visit Dinosaur Adventure Land online to learn more about our amazing Science Center, Museum, and Theme Park. Play games online and view our gallery of images!
― and what (ooo), Monday, 4 December 2006 17:18 (seventeen years ago) link
You never even looked in the bottom of that Ark! Have you looked down there? No? Who's gonna clean up that mess down there? That's me! I tell you I've had enough of this stuff. I tell you what I'm gonna do: I'm letting all these animals out, and I'm gonna burn down this Ark, and I'm going to Florida somewhere...
xp: didn't Dinosaur Adventure Land lose its funding or something? One of those fundie young earth creationist parks went under, i think.
― kingfish in absentia (kingfish), Monday, 4 December 2006 17:20 (seventeen years ago) link
― Kenneth Branagh (gcannon), Monday, 4 December 2006 17:21 (seventeen years ago) link
― Laurel (Laurel), Monday, 4 December 2006 17:23 (seventeen years ago) link
fun fact: 'dr' dino got his phd in christian science from a non-accredited christian university
― and what (ooo), Monday, 4 December 2006 17:24 (seventeen years ago) link
― Kenneth Branagh (gcannon), Monday, 4 December 2006 17:26 (seventeen years ago) link
― Laurel (Laurel), Monday, 4 December 2006 17:26 (seventeen years ago) link
The resulting "super-cold snow" fell near the poles, burying the Mammoths standing up. Ice on the North and South pole cracked the crust of the earth releasing the fountains of the deep, which in turn caused certain ice age effects, namely the glacier effects. Also this made "the earth wobble around for a few thousand years" and it made the canopy collapse that used to protect the earth and opened up the fountains of the deep.
During the first few months of the flood, the dead animals and plants got buried, and became coal if they were plants and oil if they were animals. The last few months of the flood included geological instability, when the plates shifted. This period saw the formation of both ocean basins and mountain ranges and the resulting water run-off caused incredible erosion — Hovind claims that the Grand Canyon was formed in a couple of weeks during this time. After a few hundred years, the ice caps slowly melted back retreating to their current size and the ocean levels increased, creating the continental shelves. The deeper oceans absorbed much of the carbon dioxide in earth’s atmosphere and thus allowed greater amounts of radiation to reach the earth's surface. As a result, human lifespans were shortened considerably in the days of Peleg.
― and what (ooo), Monday, 4 December 2006 17:26 (seventeen years ago) link
There are scenes of natives adorned with robes and high crowns, similar to the Incas, performing medical procedures on patients. Several depict heart and brain transplants.
The stones are clearly carved depicting people riding dinosaurs and flying reptiles.
There are stones with genetic codes, and the prolongation of life. Blood vessels are shown being reconnected via re-absorption tubes utilizing the natural regeneration of cells.
There are carvings of a cesarean section with acupuncture as a form of anesthesia. There are telescopes and ancient maps and star maps.
There is a series of four stones show the hemispheres of Earth pointing to the existence of unknown continent's that today remains a part of our collective myth.
― David RER (Frank Fiore), Monday, 4 December 2006 17:27 (seventeen years ago) link
― whoop de doodle (kenan), Monday, 4 December 2006 17:27 (seventeen years ago) link
― Euai Kapaui (tracerhand), Monday, 4 December 2006 17:29 (seventeen years ago) link
― and what (ooo), Monday, 4 December 2006 17:31 (seventeen years ago) link
― Allyzay is cool: with Blue n White, with Eli Manning, with NY Giants (Allyzay Ei, Monday, 4 December 2006 17:32 (seventeen years ago) link
― step hen faps (Curt1s Stephens), Monday, 4 December 2006 17:33 (seventeen years ago) link
God does not believe in atheistsHis presence from creation is quite clearGod does not believe in atheistsIt takes a fool to tell him he's not here
God believes atheists can get born againAnd become a new creation,But they'd best admit the world around them firstAnd ask for their salvationBut to only cry, "Recycle!" is the worst
God believes atheists do have certain rightsTo seek and search the scripturesIt says, "Come now, let us reason" that's for themBut it doesn't give them reason toMake up what God is sayingUntil it's no true benefit to them
Blee dop, sklee dop, sklee dilly dillyBah donna bee on a Saturday nightIf that sounded like nonsense to you too,Those schools have got some books for you
― and what (ooo), Monday, 4 December 2006 17:35 (seventeen years ago) link
― Laurel (Laurel), Monday, 4 December 2006 17:36 (seventeen years ago) link
I guess the non-bald Chick dude considers cancer an evolutionary advancement?
― David RER (Frank Fiore), Monday, 4 December 2006 17:38 (seventeen years ago) link
― Laurel (Laurel), Monday, 4 December 2006 17:42 (seventeen years ago) link
― step hen faps (Curt1s Stephens), Monday, 4 December 2006 17:46 (seventeen years ago) link
― whoop de doodle (kenan), Monday, 4 December 2006 17:47 (seventeen years ago) link
― kingfish in absentia (kingfish), Monday, 4 December 2006 17:54 (seventeen years ago) link
This is such terrific reading, for, well, two main reasons: (a) unlike illiterate 16th-century farmers, the scientific visionaries who put this together seriously don't know that equine hybrids are always sterile; plus (b) their grand theory to replace evolution winds up arguing that ... seemingly different species could "respectively diverge from the same original stock?" I mean, seriously:
Dogs humans and wolves apes (though considered quite different by humans today) probably originated from their same "kind" too.
(Also funny: they evidently reject everything science has allowed us to figure out about dinosaur bones except that they were reptilian? I mean, hell, once you're throwing everything else out the window, who's to say they didn't have feathers? Which: Francine is a bird who wants to be a dinosaur and then learns a little secret about herself: I could totally imagine an ugly-duckling kind of thing where someone's like "hey, you're more highly evolved and your species will be around longer, don't sweat it.")
― nabisco (nabisco), Monday, 4 December 2006 17:57 (seventeen years ago) link
― whoop de doodle (kenan), Monday, 4 December 2006 18:00 (seventeen years ago) link
Ethan, have any of the callers gone on about "indoctrination"?
― kingfish in absentia (kingfish), Monday, 4 December 2006 18:01 (seventeen years ago) link
Humans and apes diverging from a common ancestor over millions and millions and millions of years: RIDICULOUS, DO I LOOK LIKE A MONKEY?
― nabisco (nabisco), Monday, 4 December 2006 18:01 (seventeen years ago) link
― Euai Kapaui (tracerhand), Monday, 4 December 2006 18:02 (seventeen years ago) link
yes, except for when it serves their purposes to think that they aren't. fundamentalism as a freaked-out response to (some aspects of) modernity that is completely enabled by and dependent on (other aspects of) modernity is very very similar across the Christian/Muslim divide. I think there just are many similarites between Christianity and Islam anyway, but in response to Karen Armstrong's read on world religions, I think many of them, even if they are available to metaphorical readings, could become fundamentalized, given the state of the world. There are Christians who read the Bible metaphorically, after all.
I'm really sorry you're dealing with this, and what, but we're all going to have to deal with it eventually.
― horseshoe (horseshoe), Monday, 4 December 2006 18:03 (seventeen years ago) link
― horseshoe (horseshoe), Monday, 4 December 2006 18:04 (seventeen years ago) link
Is that a ginormous "DUH"? Obviously, yes, the line for the pains and pressures of the real world forms to the right, please take your places. But when you've staked your life or sanity on it, well...that's big.
― Laurel (Laurel), Monday, 4 December 2006 18:05 (seventeen years ago) link
― horseshoe (horseshoe), Monday, 4 December 2006 18:07 (seventeen years ago) link
xp yeah, laurel
― grbchv! (gbx), Monday, 4 December 2006 18:10 (seventeen years ago) link
― and what (ooo), Monday, 4 December 2006 18:10 (seventeen years ago) link
EWWW! Dragonlance, how tacky! But considering how many ex-fundies I knew from college who'd point to all manner of things with some kinda loose connection to swords 'n' sorcery (sci-fi/D&D/ren fest/creative anachronisms/Norse and Celtic mythology/prog rock) as the stuff that kinda put them on the path to a vision more secular, I think the D&Dishness of this stuff carries within it -- maybe -- something potentially transformative and redeeming.
On the other hand, I've also noticed that Norse & Celtic mythology is really popular with amongst the bathsit racist set, so I may be indulging in wishful thinking.
― Michael Daddino (epicharmus), Monday, 4 December 2006 18:11 (seventeen years ago) link
― and what (ooo), Monday, 4 December 2006 18:13 (seventeen years ago) link
I always think of it as: if religion is there to shore us up against the idea that the universe is a cold, value-neutral place, then science seems very threatening. Deeply frightening, even. Because the universe is a cold, value-neutral place. This tug of war has always been going on in one way or another. Galileo, etc.
― whoop de doodle (kenan), Monday, 4 December 2006 18:13 (seventeen years ago) link
* Batshit (likely)* Bathist (unlikely but fascinating!)* Bathist (literal reading, ie "partial to baths")
― Laurel (Laurel), Monday, 4 December 2006 18:13 (seventeen years ago) link
right, and this board has more than a few of 'em.
This seems really obvious to say, but it seems that a lot of emphasis needs to be on the psychology of these folks. There's a certain mindset that so cannot handle ambivalence of any sort, or any questioning, or any insecurity, that all things must be literal and straightforward. This shit is scary to some folks, so they have to cling to something. We've talked about this on other threads, too, like the one i did about authoritarian societies. The Bible must be read as literally true, even if it's been (mis)translated over the course of several languages, even if the first and second chapters of Genesis has differing versions of Creation, etc etc etc.
I suspect that somebody like Tep has a fair amount to say on this, but he tends to avoid these threads.
― kingfish in absentia (kingfish), Monday, 4 December 2006 18:14 (seventeen years ago) link
(I wonder how the Museum of Natural History deals with this sort of thing -- bet they have a script all laid out already for callers.)
― Michael Daddino (epicharmus), Monday, 4 December 2006 18:15 (seventeen years ago) link
xpost.
― horseshoe (horseshoe), Monday, 4 December 2006 18:16 (seventeen years ago) link
― kingfish in absentia (kingfish), Monday, 4 December 2006 18:18 (seventeen years ago) link
― Laurel (Laurel), Monday, 4 December 2006 18:19 (seventeen years ago) link
Right, but I don't know that it requires a particular sort of self-loathing to get to that point.
If you start downplaying Jesus' divinity or the literally cataloged powers of God the Father, you threaten the authority, the potency of the only pillar holding up their self-acceptance.
Replace "self-acceptance" with "overall sense of meaning in their lives," and I think it still works.
― whoop de doodle (kenan), Monday, 4 December 2006 18:27 (seventeen years ago) link
I guess yelling "READ ONE BOOK" wouldn't be polite, would it?
― Leon Czolgosz (Leon), Monday, 4 December 2006 18:29 (seventeen years ago) link
― whoop de doodle (kenan), Monday, 4 December 2006 18:33 (seventeen years ago) link
(b) if religion is there to shore us up against the idea that the universe is a cold, value-neutral place -- somewhere inside of this is a subissue, which is the usual belief among fundamentalists that the absence of religion means the absence of values, and a necessary descent into nihilism and greed and depravity. There's no faith that human beings could adopt positive values just on a rational basis, just at face value. (And this is something that plenty of strains of Christianity make a big deal of reinforcing, stressing that we are all stained and evil and fallen without God -- possibly even that you can't be a decent person without God, ten thousand Biblical exceptions aside.)
― nabisco (nabisco), Monday, 4 December 2006 18:36 (seventeen years ago) link
― Frogm@n henry (Frogm@n henry), Tuesday, 20 February 2007 07:52 (seventeen years ago) link
― scary german latebloomer (clonefeed), Tuesday, 20 February 2007 21:16 (seventeen years ago) link
― they be stealin' kingfish's bucket (kingfish), Tuesday, 20 February 2007 21:28 (seventeen years ago) link