"You know, the greek gods were really just a bunch of whores & murderers."

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So sayeth the co-workers, and it's pretty much true. It's one thing to have a pantheon full of human-like foibles, but to have every single one of them have an attitude that if you couldn't kill it or fuck it, it was irrelevant, seems a bit much.

Even the ones that didn't fuck has no reservation from the killin'.

kingfish in absentia (kingfish), Friday, 1 December 2006 22:59 (seventeen years ago) link

http://www.cit.uws.edu.au/~rollins/images/ian2.jpg

jw (ex machina), Friday, 1 December 2006 23:03 (seventeen years ago) link

one day Ian will grow a beard, and all mortals shall tremble

kingfish in absentia (kingfish), Friday, 1 December 2006 23:05 (seventeen years ago) link

thing is, like in all mythologies there are any number of different stories about each deity. some stories may portray a god or goddess one way and other may portray the deity in a different light. it depends on who's telling the story, and why. also, there were undoubtedly many more oral accounts of the gods than written, and we assume we're missing more than a bit of what WAS written.

also, i don't know what ian & hank have to do with it.

ian (orion), Saturday, 2 December 2006 05:10 (seventeen years ago) link

but yeah, sure, they liked to kill and fuck; who doesn't?

ian (orion), Saturday, 2 December 2006 05:11 (seventeen years ago) link

Jesus TOTALLY cursed & killed a fig tree, how is old beardo exempt from the pantheon of perfidy?

Abbott (Abbott), Saturday, 2 December 2006 06:01 (seventeen years ago) link

Also, they liked anal.

[electric sound of] esteban buttez (Estie Buttez), Saturday, 2 December 2006 07:21 (seventeen years ago) link

Not true! Rollins and Mackaye has denied that popular rumor in a number of interviews!

chaki (chaki), Saturday, 2 December 2006 07:51 (seventeen years ago) link

Oooh! Oooh! Perfect opportunity to share the Theogony, which I've spent half a semester translating! I'm not sure I like this translation due to the unfortunate repeated use of the word "members" at the most interesting passage, but it has so much more whoring and murdering than the whole Bible in just a few lines!

(ll. 116-138) Verily at the first Chaos came to be, but next wide-bosomed Earth, the ever-sure foundations of all (4) the deathless ones who hold the peaks of snowy Olympus, and dim Tartarus in the depth of the wide-pathed Earth, and Eros (Love), fairest among the deathless gods, who unnerves the limbs and overcomes the mind and wise counsels of all gods and all men within them. From Chaos came forth Erebus and black Night; but of Night were born Aether (5) and Day, whom she conceived and bare from union in love with Erebus. And Earth first bare starry Heaven, equal to herself, to cover her on every side, and to be an ever-sure abiding-place for the blessed gods. And she brought forth long Hills, graceful haunts of the goddess-Nymphs who dwell amongst the glens of the hills. She bare also the fruitless deep with his raging swell, Pontus, without sweet union of love. But afterwards she lay with Heaven and bare deep-swirling Oceanus, Coeus and Crius and Hyperion and Iapetus, Theia and Rhea, Themis and Mnemosyne and gold-crowned Phoebe and lovely Tethys. After them was born Cronos the wily, youngest and most terrible of her children, and he hated his lusty sire.

(ll. 139-146) And again, she bare the Cyclopes, overbearing in spirit, Brontes, and Steropes and stubborn-hearted Arges (6), who gave Zeus the thunder and made the thunderbolt: in all else they were like the gods, but one eye only was set in the midst of their fore-heads. And they were surnamed Cyclopes (Orb-eyed) because one orbed eye was set in their foreheads. Strength and might and craft were in their works.

(ll. 147-163) And again, three other sons were born of Earth and Heaven, great and doughty beyond telling, Cottus and Briareos and Gyes, presumptuous children. From their shoulders sprang an hundred arms, not to be approached, and each had fifty heads upon his shoulders on their strong limbs, and irresistible was the stubborn strength that was in their great forms. For of all the children that were born of Earth and Heaven, these were the most terrible, and they were hated by their own father from the first.

And he used to hide them all away in a secret place of Earth so soon as each was born, and would not suffer them to come up into the light: and Heaven rejoiced in his evil doing. But vast Earth groaned within, being straitened, and she made the element of grey flint and shaped a great sickle, and told her plan to her dear sons. And she spoke, cheering them, while she was vexed in her dear heart:

(ll. 164-166) `My children, gotten of a sinful father, if you will obey me, we should punish the vile outrage of your father; for he first thought of doing shameful things.'

(ll. 167-169) So she said; but fear seized them all, and none of them uttered a word. But great Cronos the wily took courage and answered his dear mother:

(ll. 170-172) `Mother, I will undertake to do this deed, for I reverence not our father of evil name, for he first thought of doing shameful things.'

(ll. 173-175) So he said: and vast Earth rejoiced greatly in spirit, and set and hid him in an ambush, and put in his hands a jagged sickle, and revealed to him the whole plot.

(ll. 176-206) And Heaven came, bringing on night and longing for love, and he lay about Earth spreading himself full upon her (7).

Then the son from his ambush stretched forth his left hand and in his right took the great long sickle with jagged teeth, and swiftly lopped off his own father's members and cast them away to fall behind him. And not vainly did they fall from his hand; for all the bloody drops that gushed forth Earth received, and as the seasons moved round she bare the strong Erinyes and the great Giants with gleaming armour, holding long spears in their hands and the Nymphs whom they call Meliae (8) all over the boundless earth. And so soon as he had cut off the members with flint and cast them from the land into the surging sea, they were swept away over the main a long time: and a white foam spread around them from the immortal flesh, and in it there grew a maiden. First she drew near holy Cythera, and from there, afterwards, she came to sea-girt Cyprus, and came forth an awful and lovely goddess, and grass grew up about her beneath her shapely feet. Her gods and men call Aphrodite, and the foam-born goddess and rich-crowned Cytherea, because she grew amid the foam, and Cytherea because she reached Cythera, and Cyprogenes because she was born in billowy Cyprus, and Philommedes (9) because sprang from the members [Philommedes means genital-loving, btw. It's a pun on laughter-loving, which is spelled differently but looks the same, and is a traditional epithet of Aphrodite.]. And with her went Eros, and comely Desire followed her at her birth at the first and as she went into the assembly of the gods. This honour she has from the beginning, and this is the portion allotted to her amongst men and undying gods, -- the whisperings of maidens and smiles and deceits with sweet delight and love and graciousness.

Maria e (Maria), Saturday, 2 December 2006 17:18 (seventeen years ago) link

and then did they lesbian upwards.

M Grout (Mark Grout), Monday, 4 December 2006 10:15 (seventeen years ago) link

Wow... Now I have to go listen to Comus again.

Andi Headphones (Andi Headphones), Monday, 4 December 2006 21:21 (seventeen years ago) link

but it has so much more whoring and murdering than the whole Bible in just a few lines!

Have you, in fact, read the Bible? Genesis is nothing but an incest-fetishist spank book!

It's one thing to have a pantheon full of human-like foibles, but to have every single one of them have an attitude that if you couldn't kill it or fuck it, it was irrelevant, seems a bit much.

Well, remember, they're gods, not the Justice League of Hellenica. They're personifications of natural forces. To think of the ocean as the thing which is angry at you and wants to kill you is one thing; to think this angry force is the reason why you're suddenly pregnant (and not that you've been cheating on your husband, say) might also make sense; but to think that the ocean cares about you and wants to hang out and chat as your equal is not only loopy but smacks of hubris, no?

Casuistry (casuistry), Tuesday, 5 December 2006 14:57 (seventeen years ago) link


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