what percentage of blame for the disaster in Iraq does the US blame?

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'expert' in last graf says just 60%! At least blaming Iraqis is getting bipartisan.


As Iraq Deteriorates, Iraqis Get More Blame
U.S. Officials, Lawmakers Change Tone

By Thomas E. Ricks and Robin Wright
Washington Post Wednesday, November 29, 2006

From troops on the ground to members of Congress, Americans increasingly blame the continuing violence and destruction in Iraq on the people most affected by it: the Iraqis.

Even Democrats who have criticized the Bush administration's conduct of the occupation say the people and government of Iraq are not doing enough to rebuild their society. The White House is putting pressure on the government of Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki, and members of the bipartisan Iraq Study Group have debated how much to blame Iraqis for not performing civic duties.

This marks a shift in tone from earlier debate about the responsibility of the United States to restore order after the 2003 invasion, and it seemed to gain currency in October, when sectarian violence surged. Some see the talk of blame as the beginning of the end of U.S. involvement.

"It is the first manifestation of a 'Who lost Iraq?' argument that will likely rage for years to come," said Bruce Hoffman, a Georgetown University expert on terrorism who has worked as a U.S. government consultant in Iraq.

Americans and Iraqis are increasingly seeing the situation in different terms, said retired Army Col. Jeffrey D. McCausland , who recently returned from a visit to Iraq. "We're just talking past each other," he said, adding that Americans are psychologically edging toward the door that leads to disengagement. "We're arguing about 'cut and run' versus 'cut and jog.' "

Iraqis' role in their own suffering has been an issue since shortly after the fall of Saddam Hussein in April 2003, when looters ransacked the national museum and Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld dismissed it by saying, "Stuff happens." But more than three years later, with schools and hospitals struggling, electrical service faltering, and police and government agencies infiltrated by sectarian death squads, the question of blame is more urgent.

For example, a Nov. 15 meeting of the Senate Armed Services Committee turned into a festival of bipartisan Iraqi-bashing.

"We should put the responsibility for Iraq's future squarely where it belongs -- on the Iraqis," began Sen. Carl M. Levin (D-Mich.), the committee's next chairman. "We cannot save the Iraqis from themselves." He has advocated announcing that U.S. troops are going to withdraw as a way of pressuring Iraqi politicians to find compromises.

Sen. Lindsey O. Graham (R-S.C.) followed by noting: "People in South Carolina come up to me in increasing numbers and suggest that no matter what we do in Iraq, the Iraqis are incapable of solving their own problems through the political process and will resort to violence, and we need to get the hell out of there."

"We all want them to succeed," agreed Sen. Evan Bayh (D-Ind.). "We all want them to be able to stabilize their country with the assistance that we've provided them." But, he added, "too often they seem unable or unwilling to do that."

Later the same day, members of the House Armed Services Committee took their turn. "If the Iraqis are determined and decide to destroy themselves and their country, I don't know how in the world we're going to stop them," said Rep. Robin Hayes (R-N.C.).

Iraqi Ambassador Samir Sumaidaie said he worries about the growing chorus of official voices blaming Iraq, and suggested that a little introspection on the U.S. side could help.

"I am indeed concerned about this trend," he said in an interview. "The U.S. through its actions and omissions has helped to create the current conditions in Iraq. Therefore the U.S. also bears responsibility in putting right the situation."

It isn't just politicians who have decided that the problem with Iraq is the Iraqis. In the military establishment, said Joseph J. Collins, a professor at the National Defense University, "there is lots of disappointment in the performance of Iraqi officials of all stripes."

Thomas Donnelly, a hawkish defense expert at the Center for Strategic and International Studies, said he considers blame a legitimate issue. "Ultimately, just like success rests with the Iraqis, so does failure," he said. "We've made a lot of mistakes, but we've paid a huge price to give the Iraqis a chance at a decent future."

The blame game has also been playing out somewhat divisively within the secretive Iraq Study Group. The bipartisan commission, led by former secretary of state James A. Baker III and former congressman Lee H. Hamilton (D-Ind.), is deliberating policy recommendations to put forward next month.

"I'm tired of nit-picking over how we should bully the Iraqis into becoming better citizens of their own country," former CIA Middle East expert Ray Close wrote in an e-mail to the other advisers to the study group.

Several other experts of various political stripes said this tendency to dump on Baghdad feels like a preamble to withdrawal.

"It's their fault, and by implication not ours, is clearly a theme that's in the air," said retired Army Col. Andrew J. Bacevich, a Vietnam veteran and longtime skeptic of the war in Iraq. It reminds him, he said, of the sour last days of the Vietnam War, when "there was a tendency to blame everything on the 'gooks' -- meaning our South Vietnamese allies who had disappointed us."

"People never understood the culture and the challenges that we faced in trying to build a new Iraq," a senior U.S. intelligence official said. "There's incredible frustration . . . but it also shows a great deal of ignorance."

"Definitely," said Paul Rieckhoff, who served in Iraq as an Army officer in 2003-2004 and went on to found a veterans group critical of the conduct of the war. "It is growing into an angry, scolding tone." He said he finds it "sad" -- "especially after all the talk of our mission to 'save the Iraqis.' "

The long-term effect of blaming Iraqis also could be poisonous, said Juan Cole, a University of Michigan specialist in Middle Eastern issues. He predicted that it will "infuriate the Iraqis and worsen further the future relationship of the two countries."

The turning point in the blame game seems to have occurred in early October, when both Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice and Sen. John W. Warner (R-Va.) went public with their frustrations, warning the Baghdad government that it must do much more much faster. Warner suggested that the United States should explore a "change of course" if security had not improved within 90 days.

During a surprise visit to Baghdad on Oct. 5, Rice said with uncharacteristic bluntness that the security situation was not helped by "political inaction."

The Bush administration hoped the long-delayed formation of a government, which took about five months after the Dec. 15 election last year, would produce more initiative by Baghdad. But the security and political situation continued to deteriorate, so the administration increased the pressure on Maliki's government. Over the past three months, U.S. officials and foreign diplomats said, senior U.S. military and administration officials visiting Baghdad have conveyed the same message: Get on with it.

"Our role is not to resolve those issues for them," Rice told reporters last month after pressing Maliki to be bolder about disbanding militias and reconciling sectarian differences. "They are going to have to resolve those issues among themselves."

Blaming Iraqis for the woeful situation disregards recent history, some experts argue. Phebe Marr, an Iraq expert and adviser to the Iraq Study Group, calculates that because of policy missteps and other errors, the United States bears about 60 percent of the blame. "You can't say, 'We did this and the Iraqis didn't rise to the occasion,' " she said. "There's enough blame to go around."

Dr M (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 29 November 2006 21:09 (seventeen years ago) link

The flood of sheer nonsense and tragedy in the last few days has been overwhelming. It's been bitter comfort to watch all the right-leaning spots getting to grips with how badly the adminstration dealt with this all -- some people are reduced to 'open letters' pleading with Bush to stand firm.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 29 November 2006 21:13 (seventeen years ago) link

uh, this is "percentage of americans blame the iraqis," right?

kingfish in absentia (kingfish), Wednesday, 29 November 2006 21:15 (seventeen years ago) link

Using "the Iraqis" as a collective blameable group is pretty notional, and -- in a weird way -- wishful thinking, at this point. (I wonder how Americans would have felt after 9/11 if a giant had leaned down out of the sky over Kansas and said "you know, you humans need to stop killing each other and be productive inhabitors of this planet.")

Ha: I like Bush's fascinating theory that recent events in Iraq are the doing of ... Al Qaeda. Who are apparently sinking all of their resources not only into bombing Shiite areas, but also convincing Shiite militias to round up and execute Sunnis in response. All of which they're doing ... just to make Bush look bad? Just to bother him?

nabiscothingy, Wednesday, 29 November 2006 21:28 (seventeen years ago) link

I like Bush's fascinating theory that recent events in Iraq are the doing of ... Al Qaeda.

Well, if things are going badly, it must be the evil-doing of the bad guys, right?

Nu-Edward III (edward iii), Wednesday, 29 November 2006 21:49 (seventeen years ago) link

And always the same ones, too!

nabiscothingy, Wednesday, 29 November 2006 22:04 (seventeen years ago) link

Blame the Jamiroquais

PappaWheelie III (PappaWheelie III), Wednesday, 29 November 2006 22:56 (seventeen years ago) link

I gotta feeling them Al Qaedas are behind this.

Hurting (A-Ron Hubbard), Thursday, 30 November 2006 03:19 (seventeen years ago) link

apologies for half-awake thread title

If you believe the Liar's unshakeable line, the rumored Baker group recommendation appears DOA.


Bush Dismisses Iraq Panel’s Pullback Plan
By SHERYL GAY STOLBERG

AMMAN, Jordan, Nov. 30 — President Bush today proclaimed Prime Minister Nuri Kamal al-Maliki “the right guy for Iraq,” and said they had agreed to speed the turnover of security responsibility from American to Iraqi forces. But Mr. Bush dismissed a reported decision by an independent bipartisan panel to call for a gradual withdrawal of troops.

“I know there’s a lot of speculation that these reports in Washington mean there’s going to be some kind of graceful exit out of Iraq,” the president said during a joint news conference here with Mr. Maliki, referring to the panel’s final report that is expected next week. “We’re going to stay in Iraq to get the job done so long as the government wants us there.”

Mr. Bush also said he and Mr. Maliki would oppose any plan to break up the country, which is riven by sectarian violence. The two appeared together after an hourlong breakfast meeting with aides at the Four Seasons Hotel here that was followed by a 45-minute one-on-one session.

“The prime minister made clear that splitting his country into parts, as some have suggested, is not what the Iraqi people want, and that any partition in Iraq would only lead to an increase of sectarian violence,” Mr. Bush said, adding, “I agree.”

The two leaders set no timetable for speeding up the training of Iraqi forces, which Mr. Bush described as evolving “from ground zero,” and a senior administration official, who attended the breakfast and was granted anonymity to discuss it, said hurdles remain.

“This is not a simple process of passing the baton,” the official said, adding, “This is not the United States and Iraq struggling for control of the steering wheel. This is the United States wanting Iraq to be firmly with the steering wheel in its hand, and the issue is, how do we get there as quickly as possible.”

The news conference came against a backdrop of rising violence in Iraq and increasing tensions between the two leaders. On Wednesday evening, Mr. Maliki took the unusual step of backing out of a planned meeting with the president, an embarrassment to the White House that came on the heels of the publication of a classified memo from National Security Adviser Stephen J. Hadley that raised doubts about Mr. Maliki’s leadership.

Today, both men tried to tamp down any suggestion that the relationship was strained. Mr. Bush said yet again that he had confidence in the Iraqi prime minister.

“I’ve been able to watch a leader emerge,” the president said, describing the threats Mr. Maliki said he had received since becoming prime minister, including shells being fired at his house.

The president added, “You can’t lead unless you’ve got courage. He’s got courage and he’s shown courage over the last six months.”

Mr. Maliki, for his part, dismissed any suggestion that he had canceled Wednesday’s meeting out of pique, saying the meeting — which had been scheduled to include King Abdullah II of Jordan — was not necessary because the prime minister and the king had already had discussion earlier in the day. “So there’s no problem,” Mr. Maliki said.

The senior official said the Hadley memo did not come up during the breakfast, except for a few jokes about leaks to the news media — a reference to The New York Times, which published the memo on Wednesday. The official said Mr. Bush and Mr. Maliki seemed comfortable with one another.

“There’s no cloud over the meeting in any fashion whatsoever,” she said.

Still, tensions seemed to bubble just under the surface. The two leaders barely looked at one another during the news conference. And when Mr. Bush, at one point, asked the prime minister if he wanted to continue taking questions from reporters, the prime minister swiveled his head toward the president and shot Mr. Bush an incredulous look.

The high-profile summit meeting and news conference underscored just how much pressure each man is facing to make changes in his relationship with the other.

In Mr. Bush’s case, that pressure is coming both from the Democrats about to take control of Congress, who want a withdrawal of troops, and the independent Iraq Study Group led by former Secretary of State James Baker, which is expected to deliver a report next week that calls for a gradual troop withdrawal, without a specific timetable for pulling out.

In Mr. Maliki’s case, the pressure is coming from Moktada al-Sadr, the radical Shiite cleric, who wants Americans to withdraw from Iraq and whose followers said Wednesday that they would boycott the Iraqi government over Mr. Maliki’s decision to meet with Mr. Bush. White House advisers want Mr. Maliki to reduce his reliance on the Sadr faction, but Mr. Maliki today sidestepped a question about whether, or how, he would do so.

“My coalition is not only with one entity,” the prime minister said, speaking through an interpreter. He added, “Mr. Sadr and the Sadrists are just one component that participate in the parliament.”

Upon his return to Baghdad, Mr. Maliki called on members of the Sadr bloc to end their boycott.

He described Mr. Sadr as “a partner in the political process” and entitled to express his views. But Mr. Maliki said the disagreements should be resolved within the Iraqi Parliament. “I wish they would change their decision,” he said, adding that the boycott “doesn’t represent a positive development.”

In Amman, the president and the prime minister did not say specifically how they intended to speed the transfer of responsibility for security from American to Iraqi forces, and they did not announce any milestones or set goals by which to measure progress.

“As soon as possible,” Mr. Bush said, when asked how quickly he expected the transfer to occur.

“I’ve been asked about timetables ever since we got into this. All the timetables mean is a timetable for withdrawal,” he went on. “All that does is set people up for unrealistic expectations.”


Copyright 2006 The New York Times Company

Dr M (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 30 November 2006 17:43 (seventeen years ago) link

Bill Oreilly agrees, it's the Iraqis' fault, and to find a way out of this we

"...must consider allowing the Iraqi military to run the place, much like Musharraf runs Pakistan. Yes, that would be brutal, but clearly, the Iraqi people are not embracing freedom. So imposing order through a military strong man might be the only way."

We gave them their freedom, and we can take it away. They obviously don't deserve it.

kingfish in absentia (kingfish), Friday, 1 December 2006 00:37 (seventeen years ago) link

. So imposing order through a military strong man might be the only way.

Funny, O'reilly didn't seem to be much of a fan of Hussein.

Leon Czolgosz (Leon), Friday, 1 December 2006 00:48 (seventeen years ago) link

He, like most conservatives, was for him before he were againnim.

justin (hoosteen), Friday, 1 December 2006 02:48 (seventeen years ago) link

If you want an example how the rats on the sinking ship are turning on each other...

Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 1 December 2006 03:17 (seventeen years ago) link

who's also to blame: the american voters (original column is behind paywall, so's i have to link here)

kingfish in absentia (kingfish), Friday, 1 December 2006 18:03 (seventeen years ago) link

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m9A_vxIOB-I

latebloomer (clonefeed), Friday, 1 December 2006 18:07 (seventeen years ago) link

humor in uniform:


http://static.flickr.com/100/299281952_fc2c1fd85c.jpg?v=0


scott seward (121212), Friday, 1 December 2006 19:00 (seventeen years ago) link

Meantime, a little memo from one D. Rumsfeld.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Sunday, 3 December 2006 16:45 (seventeen years ago) link

Some of those YouTube videos from Iraq are horrible. War is hell.

debito (debito), Sunday, 3 December 2006 21:09 (seventeen years ago) link

fucking O'Reilly.

step hen faps (Curt1s Stephens), Sunday, 3 December 2006 23:34 (seventeen years ago) link


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