Girls thread cont.

Sorry, that is probably my fault. :-(

Back at home now and on a proper computer again.

I just really really cannot take when straight dudes come in and start 'splainin like that... that whole thing about "why do women fancy this dude? he is so ~unthreatening~ (i.e. womens desire for him is inauthentic) - women should fancy the kind of dudes that *I* fantasise about *being*" (because women shouldn't fancy who they fancy, they should fancy ... *me*) and then getting so ... like defensive isn't even the word. When horseshoe and I both pointed out that, like, this is a kinda problematic usage bcuz it is denying the authentic desires and experiences of young women, he decided to try and prove how *nonproblematic* his usage was.. by denying the experiences of the women he is talking to! ("I'm not being sexist! that word doesn't mean what you think it does, it means what *I* say it does! Because women's interpretations of their own experiences are wrong, and I'm right! About everything! Because I, as a man, have access to the truuuuuuuth, did I mention I'm not sexist, you uppity bitches?") and then compounding it by being all "everyone is just agreeing with horseshoe and FT because they are WOMEn" - because, like, it's IMPOSSIBLE for ppl to be agreeing with women because they're actually *right*? About something they're actually *expert* in (men that str8 women find attractive) and said due, as a straight man, is just not? NO.

And THEN. After all this... he just declares, as only straight white men *can* - that we are all in a post gender world, and why can't we just get along and act like dudes' interpretations are the right ones? because: I HAVE UNILATERALLY DECLARED MYSELF POST-GENDER.

Just ARGH. Why?

You can argue until you're blue in the face about whether language is or isn't gendered. (WRT English, that's up for debate. english is not an inherently gendered language like, say, Spanish or Cornish - the only gender in English is that which people *put* into it. Which is a whole nother kettle of fish, see also that stupid debate about "actress" and why that word is 500 years of oppression wrapped up in one little word.) But the thing is that EXPERIENCES. ARE. GENDERED. It's impossible not to experience things without that filter - and ONLY MEN (the default gender, after all) believe that IT EVEN IS POSSIBLE. And the ability to even hold that belief is a part of male privilege.

I'm sorry I said anything. I'm sorry I ruined the thread - actually, fuck that, I didn't ruin the thread, I was enjoying the pictures because I was bored on a train. Who is that dude anyways? Is he just some vintage ILX troll that I'm not recognising because I'm always the last person to know who anyone under a fake name is?

Anyway I'm gonna read some cheesecake and try to pretend none of this happened.

wait i haven't read your post yet but it was definitely ck dexter holland's fault. okay, now i will read your post.

Did I just get totally got by some ante-dilluvian troll? Sigh. I don't even know who he is.

you didn't ruin the thread! you were otm. it is hard for me to take a person seriously when they claim calling a dude women find attractive "nonthreatening" is not about gender on some level. i guess that dude might be gabbneb? it's not clear to me whether he's said so or not.

he is so ~unthreatening~ (i.e. womens desire for him is inauthentic)
women should fancy the kind of dudes that *I* fantasise about *being*" (because women shouldn't fancy who they fancy, they should fancy ... *me*)

Not at all what I was saying. Don't put words in my mouth.

I guess I feel more stupid, than anything else, for rising to the bait. Oh well.

YOU ARE NOT A GIRL. GET OFF THIS THREAD, ASS HOLE.

YOU ARE NOT A GIRL. GET OFF THIS THREAD, ASS HOLE.

No. You talk about me, I respond.

Please don't do this here, CK Gabbnebbb whatever.

you want to respond, plz feel free to respond to FT in the orig thread. not here.

xp

Plz feel free to talk about me on the other thread, not here.

Please don't do this here, CK Gabbnebbb whatever.

^^^^^^^

I am so sorry, girls. I had no idea that this would happen. :-(

It's okay!

missing the real ilx girls thread and roxy's banning of boys who post in this thread.

^^^

also it would be very lol for roxy to ban ben b. bag

Yeah I kinda didn't realise we didn't have that here. It started to feel like an actual ~safe space~

But on a positive note, it does make me realise how good at boundary-respectin' most ILX dudes are, in terms of this kind of invasion being the exception, not the rule. That is me, saying something totally A-OK nice about ILX Dudes! It must be the season of goodwill or something. ;-)

I know one ILX dude who respects boundaries by not posting here even though it kills him. (Hi!!! You rock, ILX dude! xoxo)

It's cool. :)

As hard as it is for me, sometimes, seriously, the best thing is simply not to give it the attention. It has been one of the most freeing things of the past year or maybe a bit more, learning that I don't actually *owe* anyone my time, or my attention. I don't *owe* anyone a response. That it doesn't make a dude ~right~ if I just don't respond, but it does make me feel much less of the crazy-making of beating my head against that wall. I know this is one of those lessons that you all probably learned back in grade school.

"YOU ARE NOT A GIRL. GET OFF THIS THREAD, ASS HOLE."

Sticking to the co-ed threads because at 40 it just feels weird to see such things.

I am sorry you feel that way. But after the events of this afternoon and that particular man's behaviour, I'm more relieved than ever that there is one place on this board where I don't have to put up with a person like that, or behaviour like his.

not to derail, but went to gyno today (picking up on gyno convo that happened in original ilx). 1st time with a male gyno, and whoa was it ever a different experience. perhaps largely because of this particular dr's personality, but it's made me decide to just go with female gynocologists from now on.

I just had my first female gyno not long ago, think I need to make her my regular...nowhere near as awkward.

I've kinda been neglecting feminine health matters more than I should have--I had the first pap smear I've had in 20 years just before I left Englewood.

i had my first US gyno apptmt the other day - OMG SO TRAUMATIZING!! i wasn't aware there was a boob exam and pelvic floor exam involved, since my previous smear tests were always done by my GP and were just that - a smear test. i know i shouldn't be such a wimp about such things, but it's just so awful and awkward. the one good thing was the NP who i had the apptmnt with was a large middle-aged english lady with warm hands and a soothing voice, who talked about weather the whole time and kept me distracted.

lol christine, i would go 20 years without getting one done except my husband has been nagging me to go for about a year.

smoove, same for me today! i was like, omg what is HAPPENING. it was kind of traumatizing. i retroactively appreciate the gentle female gynos I had in the past to such a greater degree.

there is no way i could see a male gyno - bravo to you for doing so!

(It's not that I was frightened of the procedure, not at all. I haven't had health coverage for most of those 20 years.)

Hahaha I actually think this is a brilliant idea - if dudes try to come in this thread, talk about our gyno exams until they go away.

I'm lucky in that my dr's practice pretty much gives female practitioners for pap smears etc. by default. It makes such a difference - ESP the talking thru what they will do next instead if jabbing. Doesn't make it any less painful but it makes it less stressful. I prob need to go back and have been avoiding it bcuz they found I have fibroids but the treatment for that is either The Pill (which I can't take bcuz: migraines) or else inserting a coil which requires dilation which if you have fibroids involves p much crippling pain so just... it's only 10 more years until the menopause, right?

Hmm, what else happens at a US gyno appt? I go for smear tests every time the GP's computer summons me (and always with the female practice nurse, luckily) but I've never had any other kind of gynaecological checkup.

I don't know if this is good or bad because on the one hand I uh don't really like having strangers see my body, never mind poke around its more intimate crevices, but on the other I do from time to time convince myself that something may be wrong, in that way where you start to think you may die horribly at any moment, but still don't go to the doctor because it "sounds a bit silly"

also, xp, best wishes FT, I went back on the pill after mystery "mittelschmerz" (good word for bad thing) and tried many different brands with many different side-effects from migraines to hair loss (ugh!) and I have definitely had the "oh god why do I have to make these choices" thoughts many times - I realise your choice sounds more horrible than mine, too

(current solution: found brand of pills where the unpleasant side-effects are milder and come on the week off and not the days on, running packs together to avoid weeks off, though my GP says I shouldn't do that so generally I still take my week off every other pack, by which time I've forgotten how much I complained last time)

Extremely jokey straw feminist post: srsly if men got periods medical SCIENCE would have SOLVED this nonsense by now. ;-)

Kidding, kidding etc.

It's the all time "dammned if you do, damned if you don't"

(oops, shh)

Jesus WTF is wrong with ppl lately? This is not OK, knock it off.

Spacecadet I had to look up mittelschmerz - sounds awful. Commiserations.

Hmm, what else happens at a US gyno appt?

It's been awhile since I've gone anywhere by Ye Olde Feminist Health Collective, but you come into the exam room, the nurse takes your blood pressure and asks to weigh you (I decline, mostly out of principle but also because it's kind of fun to defy people who are not used to defiance). Then you take off your clothes and put on a gown and get on the exam table. Once the doc comes you, put your feet in the stirrups and the doc will, in some order, insert the speculum (if you've got a good one, they warm these up), take a peek at your cervix, and take the cell sample (sometimes just around the cervix, sometimes inside (I hate that part)). Then they remove the speculum and do a pelvic exam which involves putting two fingers in you and then pushing on your lower abdomen (called a bimanual exam).* Then the doc does a breast exam. If the doc is good there will be some amount of discussion before or after the exam (not during).

*Earlier this year I think there were some studies published saying this isn't really necessary or useful so maybe this will go away.

Here it is: http://www.liebertonline.com/doi/pdfplus/10.1089/jwh.2010.2349

Oh also if there is to be any STD testing, that will either happen during the speculum exam or you'll have blood drawn before or after.

*Earlier this year I think there were some studies published saying this isn't really necessary or useful so maybe this will go away.

I certainly hope so -- this is always the worst part for me, it is very painful. I don't know if I have a sensitive abdomen or what, but the rest of the day I hurt. And it's not because of one particular doctor, this has happened with three different doctors.

last time i went to the GUM clinic for a checkup (i'm not going to lie, a large part of the reason for going was that i'd recently been reading a bunch of US feminist blog posts about gyno appts and thought 'hm, i have never done this', and discovered that was cos we don't really do regular gyno checkups on the NHS unless there's a specific problem/question) i managed to convince the doctor to do the smear test at the same time. which was good as now i don't have to put my feet in stirrups again for, ooh, a good couple of years.

Do you get regular Pap smears under the NHS?

I certainly do! I get regular reminder letters from my GP! (But I think I may be substantially older than Cis. They only kicked in at A Certain Age. though I can't remember what that age was, LOL senility.)

Yeah, you do from 20 onwards iirc. I avoided mine for a few years after the first letter but started getting more and more stern letters about it and finally went in my mid-20s.

I think they get more frequent when you are "a certain age", though; in 20s and early 30s it is every 3 years (or is it 2?) unless you have a suspicious/inconclusive reading, in which case it's yearly or 6 monthly instead.

No breast checks until post-menopause, though. Would sort of appreciate an exam because when I do a self-check I always feel like I have no idea what I'm looking for.

ACOG came out with guidelines recently saying every two years when you're under 30, and every three years if you're over 30 and haven't had any abnormal paps - http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/pap-smear/MY00090/DSECTION=why-its-done

(Are you getting the toilet paper Imodium ad on that page? That is horrible and LOL.)

I always assume that w/ breast self-checks I'll know it if I feel it? Otherwise, I would probably be freaking out about everything all the time, since not only do I not really know what I'm looking for, they also always give the disclaimer about normal changes due to hormonal fluctuations, etc.

aforementioned gyno convo that happened in original ilx inspired me to get my first gyno checkup in eons. thanks, girls thread!

jenny set me up with Ye Olde Feminist Health Collective and it was rly nice to get some answers to some little nagging questions i'd had for yrs.

I'll know it if I feel it
i assume the same--i've found a lump which was difft than my usual lumpy breast tissue. it's small but definitely a lump. (i forgot to mention it to my doc but then gyno found it--benign cyst, no big deal)

So I got my Bass Rachel Antonoff heeled saddle shoes for X-Mas - THEY ARE AMAZING. SO comfy and adorbs!!

pics or gtfo

I have to buy shoes now and this gives me TEH PH34R. How the hell do you make shoe shopping enjoyable or even bearable?

And I've already had to *go* shoe shopping once already this month bcuz Cornwall destroyed my hiking boots so I bought wellies in Penzance but wellies work in places where everything is made of mud or sand, but do not work on the hard concrete of London ;_;

No more shitty cheap vegan shoes made of hemp and cardboard that fall apart after 3 months of use, I need to get shoes that are made of IRON and BOOTSTRAPS and will last for at least a year so I don't have to do this again. HALP ME GIRLS. #ShoeCrisis

I'm dreadful with shoes. I buy a pair of Docs, a pair of Kumfs maryjanes (orthopedic sandals basically, my feet are effed), a pair of sneakers and a pair of knee high boots for winter and thats it.

All flat - cant wear/walk in any kind of heel. Makes being girly in shoes... impossible basically :/

I don't know if my feet are just really wide, but I p much just can't wear girly shoes. Like, literally, I just cannot get my feet into them.

I'd buy shoes mail order to dispense with all the hassle, but the last time I did that, the shoes were just not wide enough (even after stretching) and I could hardly send them back after being stretched.

Maybe I should just give up and get a pair of Docs. They're supposed to be p much indestructible - are they? I need a pair of boots that will stand up to a year or so of hard London walking. A friend told me to get these Spanish goth boots - called New Rock or something like that? But again, that mail order problem.

I should get off the internet and go up to Camden but just... ugh.